WANT...

Now, now, now!!!

I think the transport is amazingly good for its cost. I think it is easy to put too much on the cr90. If you want a support ship, use a transport. I also think in a 300 point game that 2 epic ships is a bad idea. I say try a single transport and lots of fighters and Yts. That's how I would roll. It's easy to sink a whole lot of points into capabilities you cannot utilize with the cr90. I would load up on the quads, forget about the turbos, add engineering and gunnery teams, and Han solo. If you try to fight with it and support with it you will be dissapointed. I think the new energy rule will help from the FAQ, a larger table also should help. I would not try the CR90 in any battle under 300 points either. My 2 cents

To the evil fish you listen...

That little GR-75 sure is a pip of a ship IMO, and **** useful in the game too!

I love my space whales!

I have two and plan to buy two more. I am going to mess one up as huge Epic Terrain, but the other three are for the games, of course.

If you try to fight with it and support with it you will be dissapointed.

But nobody, absolutely nobody, is suggesting that. You should be able to use it as a support ship with very weak combat abilities. It does that...adequately.

You should also be able to fly it as an effective combat vessel with little to no options to support the rest of your fleet. That's what it sucks as.

IMO, you should also be able to kit it out as a tank with weak combat abilities but able to withstand so much punishment that the low damage output is made up for its shear survivability.

A generalist build would also be nice. Not great in any one aspect, but not outright bad at anything either.

As it is, it really only does one of those options at all, and doesn't do it as well as the transport that costs half as much.

Starting from turn zero, you are at a full compliment of energy.

Not sure I follow here. Until, what, yesterday, you started the game with zero energy and would need to spend 3-4 turns of glacial movement to fully charge. After the recent changes, you start with the ship itself powered, but still nothing on the quads. You waste the first turns energy while you charge the guns almost all the way and then still gave to spend 2 turns to recharge the ship in order to do anything else.

....?!

Did I miss something? Does the new FAQ tell us that we start with fully loaded energy? I'm not seeing that. Where's this coming from?

Starting from turn zero, you are at a full compliment of energy.

Not sure I follow here. Until, what, yesterday, you started the game with zero energy and would need to spend 3-4 turns of glacial movement to fully charge. After the recent changes, you start with the ship itself powered, but still nothing on the quads. You waste the first turns energy while you charge the guns almost all the way and then still gave to spend 2 turns to recharge the ship in order to do anything else.

Did I miss something? Does the new FAQ tell us that we start with fully loaded energy? I'm not seeing that. Where's this coming from?

And in regards to the OP, sounds like we all need to play more Epic. In the three of five 300 pt matches I have played using the huge ships, both have performed extremely well. However, that is not at all to say that either is indestructible or dominant on the playing field. The pair are leadership class units for the rest of your fleet; their purpose is to support. They should be escorted to not only maximize their potential, but should also be escorted for their protection and ensured sustainability. Long story short, I would definitely argue they don't suck. Maybe we should all simply utilize different tactics and build upon what works for each of us.

Found it, also in the epic tournament rules.

It's probably not enough for ForgottenLore or iPeregrine, but it's at least something.

It's probably not enough for ForgottenLore or iPeregrine, but it's at least something.

No, it really isn't because it doesn't address the actual problem. You start with full energy on the ship card, but zero energy on the guns. So you're still doing 2-straights in a desperate attempt to charge your guns, and still extremely limited in your maneuvering options if you want to even think about continuing to shoot. It does help that you start with a small pool of energy that you can spend on non-gun upgrades, but once that energy is gone it isn't coming back and you've spent points on upgrades you can no longer use.

Now, it's certainly a big improvement for the transport, since all of its upgrades have access to that energy, but I never had any problem with the transport.

The new energy FAQ was great for Huge ships, but not nearly as much as it sounds since the Allocate step comes after the Gain Energy step. It allows you to rush forward a bit faster if you'd like, or adjust your start position if you want to have the option to take different turns since the energy hit isn't as bad. But, before the FAQ, generally you were taking a 2 Straight on Turn 1, generating 4 Energy with the Engineering Team, and assigning those to weapons immediately. Now, you're starting the game with 5, taking probably a 2 or 3 Straight, gaining 0 Energy since you're at capacity, then assigning 4 to weapons - Net gain of 1 Energy.

Really I think this is revealing. How many turns have you had with a Transport or CR90 where you are at maximum Energy, and end up wasting a bunch? Probably quite a few times, mostly with the Transport. The energy problem may stem from the inability to store energy, even if just temporarily, when you hit your maximum. I would have much preferred if the rules stated excess energy is removed at the end of the round rather than immediately.

Sort of off topic, I really think the collision rules were poorly thought out. Ramming isn't OP, but it is incredibly efficient and something to strive for. Fans of the movies know how a Star Destroyer was taken out because of a collision with a single A-Wing. In this game, though, a CR90 (many magnitudes smaller) can statistically survive a collision with 8 TIE Fighters and 3 Lambdas, probably more. Moreover, ramming something is just about the most efficient way in the entire game to destroy something. Again, not OP, but I think there is something wrong when the game incentivises Huge ships to get into collisions rather than to avoid them!

Again, not OP, but I think there is something wrong when the game incentivises Huge ships to get into collisions rather than to avoid them!

I feel exactly the same way. It's not broken, but it doesn't feel like Star Wars space combat to me. Personally, I try not to hit my opponents ships if I can help it, just to throw some roleplaying in there; keep it "real."

The new energy FAQ was great for Huge ships, but not nearly as much as it sounds since the Allocate step comes after the Gain Energy step.

Yeah, this is really stupid. You should be able to gain energy and then choose which card it goes to instead of having to have space free on the ship card to hold energy for a brief moment before you can put it where it needs to go. Or at least the mission rules need to either give you full energy on all of your guns or energy up to the ship's energy limit allocated as you want.

It's great for the transport though, start the game with 4-6 energy available and even though your first maneuver is wasted you've got a nice pool to spend from that would have taken multiple turns of movement to generate normally.

Sort of off topic, I really think the collision rules were poorly thought out. Ramming isn't OP, but it is incredibly efficient and something to strive for. Fans of the movies know how a Star Destroyer was taken out because of a collision with a single A-Wing. In this game, though, a CR90 (many magnitudes smaller) can statistically survive a collision with 8 TIE Fighters and 3 Lambdas, probably more. Moreover, ramming something is just about the most efficient way in the entire game to destroy something. Again, not OP, but I think there is something wrong when the game incentivises Huge ships to get into collisions rather than to avoid them!

To be fair, this was a star destroyer with its bridge shields down, and the a-wing smashed directly into the bridge windows. And even then it didn't really damage the ship very much, the death of the bridge crew just disrupted the chain of command long enough for it to drop out of formation and get pulled into the death star's gravity. In open space with no death stars or planets to ram it would have been a minor annoyance at best.

Except it really won't. If the imperial huge ship is as weak as the rebel one because it has the same energy problem then it will also be unappealing from a competitive perspective. If it fixes the energy problem and is fun and competitive then it will completly dominate the corvette and nobody will play rebels in epic games.

If they give the Imperial ship guns that don't require energy to fire and don't make them faction-specific, that would fix the Corvette as well.

If they're generous they might even FAQ the Corvette's guns rather than forcing Rebel players to buy the expensive Imperial ship.

I think you're only lacking in energy if you're trying to do too much with your Corvette. It's probably best to not put all your points on one platform, but invest in more escorts instead. (Or a pretty space whale with slicer tools.)

But if you're not going to do much with the Corvette, why take a Corvette over two or three additional transports?

I didn't say "do much" I said "do too much".

Look, just like most ships that you can load up with upgrades, at some point you're putting too many eggs into a single basket. The corvette is no different. If you arm all the hardpoints, you're going to run out of energy, unless you can run it really slow at a distance so that you're not consuming all your energy keeping your shields up. I only put one quad laser on there and I had too much energy on my hands. The happy medium is probably two quads.

But if take a Corvette with limited upgrades that's really just there to buff the fighters, there's no reason to pick the expensive Corvette over the much, much cheaper transport. Heck, take two. Less points, more energy, more actions and more escorts.

Let's also remember that this is a fighters dogfighting game, not a capital ships game.

That's the normal format. The entire point of the epic format is to shake things up and diversify the game. That's why the big ships are limited to the epic format, even though the transport can easily be squeezed in a 100 point list.

Wow, I've had a totally different experience with my Corvette. It's a hell of a lot of fun and seems to give as good as it gets.

Then again, I've been playing the campaign missions and not trying to incorporate it into competitive gaming as many of you seem to have. I know for many of you who only enjoy the white knuckliest manner of gaming that fact will invalidate everything I'm about to say. Thanks for reading this far and have a nice day. For the rest of you still with me, I will say that I realize that the points are not equal in campaign missions (to compensate for the mission parameters, which can themselves be a variable.)

All that said, the build used for campaign missions is actually very solid and worth looking at. If I was making changes for epic play I'd probably drop the turbolaser for another quad and maybe drop the gunnery team. The quads seem to be better because ships are running to get past the minimum range of the main gun and to where their own weaponry is most effective. The gunnery team is nice, but it seems like energy I'll often want to be spending elsewhere

Oh yes, the campaign missions are a ton of fun. But I would like to point out that campaign missions tend to give the Rebels a point advantage.

Sort of off topic, I really think the collision rules were poorly thought out. Ramming isn't OP, but it is incredibly efficient and something to strive for. Fans of the movies know how a Star Destroyer was taken out because of a collision with a single A-Wing. In this game, though, a CR90 (many magnitudes smaller) can statistically survive a collision with 8 TIE Fighters and 3 Lambdas, probably more. Moreover, ramming something is just about the most efficient way in the entire game to destroy something. Again, not OP, but I think there is something wrong when the game incentivises Huge ships to get into collisions rather than to avoid them!

We also see small ships smashing into the big ships and the big ships not even noticing the blow several times during Endor.

Wow, a lot going on here since I dropped in last time (different timezone, me being from Europe).

Ok, just to make it clear, I was on the damage dealing side and I felt it was too simple (no challenge). There wasn't even much luck involved on my side, decent dice rolling. He reinforced of course, but I just fired at the other section and took that one out.

I would have been happy with the game if there would have been a need for me to take a few bombers to get the corvette down; right now, there's no reason to take bombers. With bombers the imperial would also be in the situation to have something to protect, flying escort mission for their bombers so they get into range for their missiles/torpedoes - because the normal fighter guns shouldn't be able to take a huge ship apart that easy. Just my 2c.

And while it was my first game vs the corvette, I have some 100ish games under my belt, and played several epic games where the transport was involved (played against it, and used it myself a few times). We spend some time to come up with the best way to destroy the transport fast; I just used that knowledge to fight the corvette :-)

For me there shouldn't be the need to take a transport to make the corvette work. And I'm not convinced (yet) that the lack of energy is the problem. Will run a few more games with the corvette involved, get some more experience. I will use it myself a few times to see what strength it might have. But that one game showed that the weaknesses we discovered with the transport also carries over to the corvette, and I expect the frigate to have the same problems.

The game is great as Dogfight game, but I thought that with the Epic format there would be some shifting to a different area/playstyle :-)

a CR90 (many magnitudes smaller) can statistically survive a collision with 8 TIE Fighters and 3 Lambdas, probably more.

I have a new life-goal.

It was a team game, 200 points each players, 4 players, 2 each side.

You just invalidated your entire complaint about the figure. Your analysis was based on a game in which it was shorted 1/3 of the points it was supposed to have to function. It relied on teammates to help protect it who probably weren't doing their part. It was in the hands of a player inexperienced with the corvette against people who had some practice with it.

I haven't used mine so I can't speak to its playability but I know when I do actually get the chance to run a game with it, my opinion of it won't be based on a single play experience in a game setting where it is designed to perform sub-optimally.

It was a team game, 200 points each players, 4 players, 2 each side.

You just invalidated your entire complaint about the figure. Your analysis was based on a game in which it was shorted 1/3 of the points it was supposed to have to function. It relied on teammates to help protect it who probably weren't doing their part. It was in the hands of a player inexperienced with the corvette against people who had some practice with it.

I haven't used mine so I can't speak to its playability but I know when I do actually get the chance to run a game with it, my opinion of it won't be based on a single play experience in a game setting where it is designed to perform sub-optimally.

I missed the memo where it says a list with a Corvette needs to be at least 300 points for it to be a functional ship and you can't share the points between players. Not that this matters a lot, because an extra hundred points for the corvette also means an extra hundred points of fighters for the opponent. You'd still be outnumbered quite drastically.

It was a team game, 200 points each players, 4 players, 2 each side.

You just invalidated your entire complaint about the figure. Your analysis was based on a game in which it was shorted 1/3 of the points it was supposed to have to function. It relied on teammates to help protect it who probably weren't doing their part. It was in the hands of a player inexperienced with the corvette against people who had some practice with it. I haven't used mine so I can't speak to its playability but I know when I do actually get the chance to run a game with it, my opinion of it won't be based on a single play experience in a game setting where it is designed to perform sub-optimally.

I missed the memo where it says a list with a Corvette needs to be at least 300 points for it to be a functional ship and you can't share the points between players. Not that this matters a lot, because an extra hundred points for the corvette also means an extra hundred points of fighters for the opponent.

I think you missed his point. If the OP puts 3/4 of his points into just the corvette, leaving just 50 for escorts, he's (unwittingly, I an sure) begging for trouble.

Incidentally, the memo on point values is on page 2 of the epic tournament rules.

I think you missed his point. If the OP puts 3/4 of his points into just the corvette, leaving just 50 for escorts, he's (unwittingly, I an sure) begging for trouble.

Incidentally, the memo on point values is on page 2 of the epic tournament rules.

Oh, I got his point. I just don't agree with it. The Corvette is a massive point sink, and the only way to have enough points for a proper escort is to provide it with only the barest of minimum in upgrades. Which defeats the entire purpose of having such a massively customizable ship. Might as well take a couple of transports instead, which'd be an even better choice (150 points worth of transporters can jam up to 6 targets, and throw 3 guaranteed damage at a max of 5 of them a turn, and that's just offence. It has triple the support as well).

300 points is the tournament max, but that shouldn't mean the Corvette needs 300 points in order to be functional. The transport certainly doesn't. That, and shared between two players they were playing a 400 point game. So that's escort + for them.

I believe the player spent some 120 or so points on the corvette; he also had Wedge, and Chewbacca in the Falcon, so he was under 130 points.

And my opinion on huge ships was just confirmed with that game, I played several time against the transport and a few time with it. For a huge ship it's also quite fragile. I was hoping for the corvette to do better, but I was not really expecting it :-)

As stated before, I will run a few more games and see how it performs, but I will also surely run at least one game with our homebrew modification.

It was a team game, 200 points each players, 4 players, 2 each side.

You just invalidated your entire complaint about the figure. Your analysis was based on a game in which it was shorted 1/3 of the points it was supposed to have to function. It relied on teammates to help protect it who probably weren't doing their part. It was in the hands of a player inexperienced with the corvette against people who had some practice with it.

I haven't used mine so I can't speak to its playability but I know when I do actually get the chance to run a game with it, my opinion of it won't be based on a single play experience in a game setting where it is designed to perform sub-optimally.

I think you missed his point. If the OP puts 3/4 of his points into just the corvette, leaving just 50 for escorts, he's (unwittingly, I an sure) begging for trouble.

Incidentally, the memo on point values is on page 2 of the epic tournament rules.

300 points is the tournament max, but that shouldn't mean the Corvette needs 300 points in order to be functional. The transport certainly doesn't. That, and shared between two players they were playing a 400 point game. So that's escort + for them.

Okay, I was reading it wrong. I thought it was 200 points per side, not per player.

And my opinion on huge ships was just confirmed with that game, I played several time against the transport and a few time with it. For a huge ship it's also quite fragile. I was hoping for the corvette to do better, but I was not really expecting it :-)

Confirmation bias?

I have a rule I want to try in the Epic ships. It would be that they only lose shields to critical hits.

This immediately means that they have increased survivability, it also means secondary weapons are more useful (really proton weapons).

Once the shields are down then damage is really painful but till then the ships can tank quite well.

I have a rule I want to try in the Epic ships. It would be that they only lose shields to critical hits.

This immediately means that they have increased survivability, it also means secondary weapons are more useful (really proton weapons).

Once the shields are down then damage is really painful but till then the ships can tank quite well.

Hmm, at first glance I'd say that's a bit much. Particularly in combination with their shield regeneration.

But the squishiness is really only a problem for the Corvette. The Transport compensates for its surprising squishiness with its low point cost. At 30 points stock it's cheaper than most YT's, and even half of the E-wings. It could easily fit into the 100 point format point-wise (and I daresay the only reason it isn't is because the jam and coordinate actions would rip through the meta in ways the Phantom can only dream off).

But the Corvette is triple the cost of a Transport, and it doesn't really show in its survivability. It might have double the health, but energy is an important factor in the survivability of big ships. And the Corvette, despite being triple the cost and twice the ship, for some reason has the only a minor increase in the energy limitation and regeneration compared to the Transport. Now I'm just theorycrafting here, but if the Corvette could regenerate and store more energy than its smaller, cheaper companion (the later which can be done by letting it allocate energy during the gain energy phase, rather than afterwards), that would mean a world of difference for the Corvette's survivability. As well as it's damage and support potential.

Might have to allow fewer shields, or possibly have some other balance mechanism. Like shield regen is 3 energy per shield.

Might have to allow fewer shields, or possibly have some other balance mechanism. Like shield regen is 3 energy per shield.

It sounds like you're suggesting the opposite direction than the critics are calling for.