Hey all. The meta in my local group (and worldwide, I suspect) is to have variations on superfalcon builds.

Juan Solo y los tres banditos (Han, EU, C3PO, Luke) maybe some other stuff, and 3 naked Z's

Han and Coran, both decked out.

Superchewy etc.

Basically a YT with a C3PO in it and engine upgrade to allow him to boost. It's INCREDIBLY difficult in the end game with my whisper builds because even though I have initiative, Han is moving last and with boost nearly always gets out of my arc, thoroughly screwing me. The opponent flying han usually keeps him well out of the heavy action until the end, making him a killer endgame piece.

How are you guys doing falcon counters? What's working well? I fly Whisper with ACD, VI, Adv Sens, Recon Spec, Howlie and 3 Academy ties.

TIE swarm. Superfalcon's a misnomer, it's just a Falcon as it's always been, and it pays for its turret with a lack of firepower for point cost. It wasn't around as much in Wave 1-3 because lots of ships kill it, now Wave 4's scared the swarms off it's growing back. TIE/Ln is an excellent Falcon weedkiller.

The Indianapolis crowd is also exploring counters to Super-Han, without a great deal of success thus far.

My current thoughts are along the lines of a high PS assassin (Soontir, or Whisper) plus a mini Swarm. But not just any mini Swarm. It need durability. 5 APs will almost always shoot last, and my experience thus far has been that you're likely to lose one of them before it ever gets to shoot. So, I'm working on the following list:

Whisper + VI + ACD

Night Beast

Dark Curse

2x Scimitar Squadron Pilot

I think the mini-Swarm of two durable named TIEs plus two Bombers could pretty consistently withstand the opening beating of a Falcon. The idea at that point is to pour as much damage into the YT as possible while you've still got your full force.

The other key is to make sure that your Phantom is positioned in such a way that it a) threatens the YT, and b) also has a shot (if not a good shot) on a support ship. That way, if the YT dances away, you can still pop a Z and get your Cloak back.

I'm having difficulties even hitting Han. He puts his Z's in front, and then boosts around the back to stay out of arcs. It's really tricky, but Victor is a well known and very good pilot.

I was thinking of running Whisper, Soontir and two ties as a counter to the superfalcon. Gonna need some testing, but it might work.

Hey all. The meta in my local group (and worldwide, I suspect) is to have variations on superfalcon builds.

Juan Solo y los tres banditos (Han, EU, C3PO, Luke) maybe some other stuff, and 3 naked Z's

Han and Coran, both decked out.

Superchewy etc.

Basically a YT with a C3PO in it and engine upgrade to allow him to boost. It's INCREDIBLY difficult in the end game with my whisper builds because even though I have initiative, Han is moving last and with boost nearly always gets out of my arc, thoroughly screwing me. The opponent flying han usually keeps him well out of the heavy action until the end, making him a killer endgame piece.

How are you guys doing falcon counters? What's working well? I fly Whisper with ACD, VI, Adv Sens, Recon Spec, Howlie and 3 Academy ties.

2x Delta with HLC

Jonus with a Proton / or Swarm and a Flechette / or Ion Pulse and Munitions Failsafe / or 2 Flechettes / naked and upgrade the Delta's to onyx's

Fly in a line to maintain wide firing arcs and always stay at range 3.

If you're trying to specifically fight HSF with an ACD phantom you're wasting points.

If you're trying to specifically fight HSF with an ACD phantom you're wasting points.

I definitely see what you're saying. Can I still have the ACD phantom in the build against superfalcons?

TIE swarm. Superfalcon's a misnomer, it's just a Falcon as it's always been, and it pays for its turret with a lack of firepower for point cost. It wasn't around as much in Wave 1-3 because lots of ships kill it, now Wave 4's scared the swarms off it's growing back. TIE/Ln is an excellent Falcon weedkiller.

I don't know. It seems to me that C-3PO makes a difference here against TIEs with two attack dice.

I'd recommend bombers with heavy ordnance and Jonus w/Squad Leader, or a heavy-laser Firespray build to take down the Falcon, and then mop up the bandits.

The fact that the Superfalcon even exists saps my will to play this game much anymore. It's rapidly becoming a one ship meta and boring as hell. While everyone was whining about the Phantom, the real "broken" ship has clearly emerged from its shadow.

But you can only use C3P0 once per round. So what you get is 3P0 one per round + the evade token from the MF upgrade. So that staves off the first good attack the Falcon faces. After that it is back to its 1 evade die and starts losing shields and hull quickly. That is why a Mini-Swarm is a good thing to counter the Superfalcons out there!

I think the objective here is to find a squad that's both effective against Superfalcon AND generally competitive.

Phantoms aren't automatically bad against YTs. They require careful flying, choice of initiative, and the support of other ships that can present a threat to the YT. Which is why I think Phantom + mini swarm might be the best all-around competitive Imperial squad.

I think that the greatest difficulty for me is the EU and the C3P0. The engine upgrade plays hell on my swarm, etc. he just boosts right out of arcs. he doesn't hit hard, but he is VERY hard to hit. I was running whisper with a mini howl swarm and he is incredibly hard to nail down.

It's an incredibly frustrating ship to fly against because of the turret and the boost.

How about something like this:

Backstabber

2x Black Squadron Pilot with Outmaneuver

2x Sabre Squadron Pilot with Opportunist

Throws a lot of red. Should clean up Talas in very short order too.

Phantoms... might be a problem.

Outmaneuver can be used to deny YT-1300s use of C-3PO. To dodge arcs, they are generally pointed away from you, and if they have no green dice to roll, they cannot use 3PO. You can also combine a stress generating effect with an Ion Pulse Missile to force a turn of predictability from the YT. Just make sure you are in position to take advantage of it.

Boba Fett w/ VI and gunner. He is like Brath in that his ability hardly ever comes into play, you just want him for the PS. Also, using gunner works well against Phantoms and C-3P0, Phantom for obvious reasons and Superfalcon because he can strip 3P0's ability for the rest of your ships. Granted, the Falcon player could always save 3P0 for a different attack that round, but having more attacks available (especially gunner-fied ones where you can save modifiers for a better roll) is always a good thing against 3P0.

I think this list might work against both the YT lists and phantoms- what does everyone think?

Major Rhymer w/ Flechette Torpedoes x2, munitions failsafe

Gamma Squadron Pilot w/ Flechette Torpedoes x2, munitions failsafe

Gamma Squadron Pilot w/ Flechette Torpedoes x2, munitions failsafe

Gamma Squadron Pilot w/ Flechette Torpedoes x2, munitions failsafe

TOTAL: 100 points

Focus fire torps to kill the Falcon. Stress out the Phantoms.

Jonus with ion pulse.

Scimitar with Ass. Miss and Clusters x3

OR

Jonus with Squad Leader.

Scimitar with Clusters x 4

Falcon gets near you hit it with clusters. I am surprised that bombers havn't been seeing much use.

I think it has been the one shot ordanance that has been scaring away squad builds of bombers.

I generally have little problem with an HSF "Superfalcon" type list with my normal tournament build:

Dagger + HLC + FCS x2

Prototype Pilot x2

I fully understand I'm going after Han, so I have to be tough enough to survive until I can lay the smacks down. If the enemy rushes Z-95s to allow Han to set up a flank, let him...the Zs are an easy kill, and the B-wings are maneuverable enough and have the action economy to support taking a red maneuver if they need it. If they rush Han forward (usual), I simply widen my arcs a little, and keep Han @R3. HLCs don't care if you're @R3, and my B-wing's love the defense boost. Use the A-wings as they're intended (as blockers) and make sure Han can't boost out of your arc. Two rounds of solid TL+FOC HLC shots, and Han is really hurting, especially since one or two of the A-wings can get shots in too. Plus, assuming you don't derp and let Han into R1, the B-wings will definitely be able to survive two round, even if your opponent rolls perfectly and you miss every evade. This list has the added benefit of being very good against most types of lists, assuming you play well, as it's very difficult to dodge arcs @R3 since it's so wide. Oddly enough, the only thing it doesn't do well against is pure swarms, since you spend a lot of points on high-quality attacks meaning you'll have less attacks overall. Sure, you'll probably kill one or maybe two TIEs a turn, but that return fire is nasty. Rebel Aces will only make the list better, as I give the A-wings Chardaan Refit and spend the points on upgrading one a Dagger to Nera Dantels and giving her Swarm tactics. Same action economy, better and more adaptable PS game.

Now, I realize you're trying to play Imps...there's no pure corollary to the list I made above, but the closest I can do is two Onyx + HLC and a naked Jonus. You'll get the same action economy on the Defenders via Jonus simulating a TL, and the Defender's Focus action makes up the rest. You don't have blockers though, which can hurt you vs. an overly aggressive opponent. Also, the Defenders aren't as able to turtle as the B-wings, as there's no 1 forward, and stressing after the turn is harder on Defenders. To make up for it, you're much faster, have a 3 turn which is nice, and are much more defensive. B-wings tend to die to massive hits, but Defenders can avoid more damage, meaning that their two less shield points hurt less. Plus, the white 4k makes them better jousters than the B-wing list.

I haven't played the list yet (I only own one Defender for now), but I like the tech of the list enough to offer it.

Usually I like to fly a list to find out how to beat it. Last night I flew:

Chewie w/ c3po, predator, mf title

Biggs

Tala x2

It didn't lose and each game went the same. Escorts get dismissed early to middle with minimal damage done, all the while Chewie is taking chunks out of those same ships, and at the end there's a realitively unscathed chewie that mops up. Kind of annoying.

To me, I don't know if the list matters as much as how you approach attacking the super falcon. The falcon is the primary and the fighter screen has to be ignored. But that has it's own problems. This is a tough archetype.

Guys. You wanna kill the falcon, you fly wedge.

No dice, no 3PO.

pair him with r2-d2 and keep Biggs close.

With the variety of ships in play, people underestimate plain old x-wings.

These are all good responses. If I end up keeping whisper and a swarm, if he approaches with the Z's in front and him in the rear or attempting to flank, do I ignore the Z's and try difficult shots against him or maneuvers that leave me exposed to the Z's? Basically, do I take Han out at all costs?

Guys. You wanna kill the falcon, you fly wedge.

No dice, no 3PO.

pair him with r2-d2 and keep Biggs close.

With the variety of ships in play, people underestimate plain old x-wings.

You need more attack dice for C3P0 Falcons. You just have to break through that first C3P0 + Evade token, and then the damage mounts up like any other ship with 1 agility. C3P0 simply blocks 1 damage more per round than before they had that card, which in my opinion is just fine since it makes an already expensive 3-attack ship even more expensive, but a little more resilient. Remember, when this ship is fielded it is OVER 50 POINTS in both Chewie and Han variants.

So, more red dice. Same as always.

Another thing that I myself want to try: Secondaries at range 3. HLCs, to be precise. Could be B-wings or Defenders.

Falcon killer list

Wedge, R2-D2, marksmanship

Biggs, R2-F2 (extra dice feels good),

Bandit x3

Just as good as any imperial falcon killing list.