Hi all, I'm still very new to EOTE and was wondering about what happens when you make a roll that entirely cancels everything out?

I understand that if all successes are neutralised that the roll counts as a fail, but with no advantage/threat does that mean the result is just a straight fail?

It does mean it's a straight fail. Hopefully it's a rare occurrence that there are no threat or advantage to color the result.

In our experiece a wash may happen once every other session. So it's rare enough to not be a constant bummer.

There was a post on reddit about this same thing.

http://www.reddit.com/r/swrpg/comments/2c1yuz/interpreting_dice_pool/

RAW: It's a fail. You need at least on success to succeed, anything less is a fali.

In my group, we usually consider it a mis-step where nothing happened that can allow for a re-roll. Trying to slice a computer system? Well, your code failed to launch, try again. Trying to negotiate a price with a merchant? Somehow the conversation got side tracked to his last fishing trip, try again to actually talk about your price negotiations.

RAW: It's a fail. You need at least on success to succeed, anything less is a fali.

In my group, we usually consider it a mis-step where nothing happened that can allow for a re-roll. Trying to slice a computer system? Well, your code failed to launch, try again. Trying to negotiate a price with a merchant? Somehow the conversation got side tracked to his last fishing trip, try again to actually talk about your price negotiations.

This is how I've handled it. Since there are no failures to create a failure, and no successes to create a success, the roll is simply a non-success, and the test can be remade (though time has still been spent). I'd be interested in seeing the RAW reference though, since I appear to have missed that.

I'd have to find the specific page, but the rules definitely define a successful roll as one in which at least one Success symbol remains un-cancelled, and a failed roll as one in which no Success symbols remain uncancelled.

That's an interesting house rule though, I hadn't encountered that before.

I sometimes allow 'failure with advantage' to allow another roll with a different tack. For instance, a player is trying to use Charm to get some information, and rolls a fail with advantage. I might suggest he goes for a more direct approach, maybe trying at a slightly higher difficulty with Coerce, say.

This allows players to hit 'soft walls' instead of hard ones when trying to get information or something they really need.

I wouldn't allow re-rolls for straight failures though. That's time to try something else entirely.

Key point: if the story can't proceed unless the characters make the check, why bother with dice at all?

I sometimes allow 'failure with advantage' to allow another roll with a different tack. For instance, a player is trying to use Charm to get some information, and rolls a fail with advantage. I might suggest he goes for a more direct approach, maybe trying at a slightly higher difficulty with Coerce, say.

This allows players to hit 'soft walls' instead of hard ones when trying to get information or something they really need.

I wouldn't allow re-rolls for straight failures though. That's time to try something else entirely.

That's a good way to handle it. I had a player trying to get onto the roof of a building so he could break in and steal something, and made a null roll with some advantage. I narrated that he could retest, but he would have to take a physically different path and try something different, putting him at risk of being found by the guards.

Key point: if the story can't proceed unless the characters make the check, why bother with dice at all?

Always a good point. A roll's success and failure should both be interesting. If you're rolling for the sake of rolling, you're probably doing it wrong.

Key point: if the story can't proceed unless the characters make the check, why bother with dice at all?

I've noticed the adventures address this. In the checks for information in particular you glean info from even just uncancelled Advantages so total success isn't an absolute.

Key point: if the story can't proceed unless the characters make the check, why bother with dice at all?

One thing I'll do when a check is 'necessary' is use the skill check to gauge how well they succeed, with even a failed check still technically succeeding, but having the worst outcome that will still move the story along.

Like, if they need to use Coordination to creep along a narrow ledge over a bottomless chasm, I wouldn't say that a failed check means they fall to their death.

It might mean that they lose their grip on the ledge, fall 10 meters down the wall and manage to grab hold at the last minute, taking several points of strain damage and possibly a wound or two. Then they might need an Athletics check to creep up the wall and reach their destination.

With a failed check, this would take the longest amount of time and be the noisiest, possibly attracting enemy attention. With a successful check, they creep along the ledge successfully and make it across.