What has been printed so far for Block 3 that can negate Enhances? I'm only seeing Stone Mail, Dhalsim's Turban, and No Memories, only the last of which isn't specifically for damage pumps (well, speed pumps for D-Turban but really, it's Dhalsim-only so who cares?). So No Memories is the only card in the format thus far that can negate Rejection directly, as opposed to using action-canceling or card pool discarding tricks?

I'm well aware that Block 3 will get a new set before the Block 2 stuff goes away... I'm just trying to get a fix on what to look for when that happens, in terms of stuff that changes the meta that much just by being there with simple text effects.

IE Chester's Backing can stop crap on their foundations, including enhances. Kung Fu Training can stop Rejection and such. But for Characters that have built-in Enhances your options are much more elusive and it'll probably just come down to whether you can run No Memories. Actually, I think it was a smart decision that Chester's Backing and NM don't share any symbols.

Any info/comments?

Hmm...

No Memories is block 3 for enhance negation. Also SoC (watermarked four point) can pretty much negate anything.

Othen than that, it's specific enhance negation, including much of Karin's stuff (Karin herself, Silver Spoon, Queen of Victory).

Wait... they reprinted Seal of Cessation?

What were they thinking? With this sparseness of negation effects everywhere else, they basically just gave the format a defining, auto-include card for every symbol, but in an elusive promo rarity. That is to say they gave it -another- one. Given the 'attitude' of Block 3, it seems really backward to have every player trying to get 4 Olcadan's and 4 Seals before they can really make their deck as good as it should be. =|

Ya I think the main ones I can think of are :

Chesters for foundations ,Red lotus for certain E's which are a lot , and SOC.

I think they are trying to cut down on E negation on foundations as a general trend but possibly make it so attacks say something along the lines of " R commit one foundation: negate an enhance", that could be wishful thinking but they are starting to make cards with useful statics such as lumber axe and american made.

Indeed I would really like to see how set 11 shapes the meta.

In terms of generic Enhance negation, I don't think there is anything out ATM, but then again it's been mostly specialized negation. I'd say wait on the next couple sets and see what happens.

Hewittzil said:

Emeril Lagasse said it best,

"I don't know where you get your SoCs, but where I get mine, they don't come four-point watermarked."

Seriously, I do recall reading the AoPs would be legal next block, but um...mine have a 3-star, sooooo...

Nearly any effect a attack can do, can be negated by something, its just a matter of what it is the card does, and how your going to go about negating it. Stuff like Silver Spoon, Red Lotus, Stone Mail are all effect specific negation that can be pretty effective. No memories and Seal are the only two things that can nail ANY enhance.

MarcoPulleaux said:

i can procide scan of 4 point watermarked AoPs But i do think you should be able to play you 3 pointed aops next blocks

Captain Ren said:

Of course you can; anything that receives a new watermark when it had none or a different one is treated as if it had one (much like Megalomania, Mission of Peace, etc).

I just hope they do a program where you send-in old copies and get new copies. Oh, and that they actually give them back. Fantasy Flight still has all of my One-Armed Manuevers, Ryu's Ashura Senku, and Rolling Storm

Polygon said:

An asset that checks a 3cc is never an auto-include.

We still have no memories guys and we only lost peices of 8 when we make the switch so honestly we didnt lose that much and death still keeps the E negation.

Scubadude said:

We didn't lose much because we didn't HAVE much. In fact...this game has never really had that much direct E negation. The thing is, both Yoga Mastery and Pieces of Eight were top tier cards of their days...

Sure...Death/Fire/Void get to have No Memories...which means 2 bottom tier and 1 mid tier symbol get E negation. Who cares? The obvious problem with negation is that it's such a powerful mechanic. We honestly need more destruction effects, because destruction, oddly enough, is probably the least lethal of the evil three: destruction, negation, and commit.

Tagrineth said:

Maybe. I just really don't want to see a block which is otherwise intended to be more balanced, diverse, and just a bit slower become highlighted by the demand for a few 'chase' promos that every symbol can run and most every player wants to, and the impact having them has on deck strength. Though it's probably too late for that.

Other than that, I like what I'm hearing. 1 card with generic, recurring E: negation, and a good portion of specific, yet useful tools for negating certain things - which you can't feasibly include the whole package of into a deck. Sounds just right.

MarcoPulleaux said:

Well, keep in mind that the E: negation from that one card alone will have an impact on what you can consider to be high or low "tier" once Block 3 rolls around. You can't purely look at it in terms of "it isn't that noteworthy because it's on poor symbols", because as you said straight negation is scarce because it's so powerful. Cards like this partially define the symbol rather than just partially improve it.

Otherwise, I agree on the destruction vs. negation thing. Remember when Roundhouse Kick was around? It was considered strong but not overmuch so. Now we're losing Grim Roundhouse and it almost seems like a non-issue because blowing up Foundations doesn't seem to be anything anybody wants to run a 2-check for on their life.

After starting to play B3 with my group, we all commented on how E negation needs to exist in this game, and No Memories alone isn't going to cut it. I think we need to see more balanced E negation (No Memories/Po8, NOT Yoga) available to certain symbols (Evil/Chaos/All?). E negation shouldn't go overboard, but with Spike and Defender running rampant, being able to say 'NO!' to those enhances will help tremendously.

There are some answers to those two Block 3. Against Defender, Undercover Agent and Pull of the Tides stop Defender dead. Feline...eh, Karin gave us anti keyword support.

Enhance negation could look something like Inhuman Perception. Of course, Inhuman Perception gets away because it doesn't have ZOMGAMAZING symbols. If Inhuman had something like Evil/Order/Water or All/Evil/Order, yeah...maybe wouldn't be so happy.

Don't worry; I'm sure Hata will take care of Defender and Feline in the December State of the Game.

MarcoPulleaux said:

So are you impling that Hata is banning spike and defender ?

MarcoPulleaux said:

I honestly don't see either card as a problem. feline spike can be dealt with in a miriad of ways. Revenant's calling and Amy's assistance both stop defender dead.

theboogerman said:

What those cards are terrible didnt you hear there unplayable haha... Great points though defender and spike are just too over hyped and everyone wants them banned. honestly the format is fine build your decks to encounter the power cards just like you do for any game and you will be fine.

heh, its all about luck. who get the counters and loop first

OH LOL its a card game

Uh guys...

Can we pause this conversation until December 19th?

Antigoth said:

And could we please give the mods in waiting/regular users a gift in this holiday season by not bitching too much? (unless warranted)

Can't wait for the set mostly because I've been waiting on that new Balrog. I wanna know which one I'll start with opposed to which one I'll stack. Considering I've already got 4 Promo Balrog for such a thing I'm pretty sure it'll end up being that one, but who knows?

Antigoth said:

*Pushes Start button*

"Di doo di doo."

Okay, paused. J/k, although I really wasn't hoping to talk about what should be banned, but what we should be keeping an eye out for in terms of obstacles/answers based on what is already "available" for Block 3. Set 11's cards are definitely going to have different implications then they would if we -weren't- taking everything but the 4-star cards out of the picture when it come 'round.