Hey all,

I'm in discussions with my local library system about doing an X-Wing program for teens (~14-17). It would involve introducing the game to them and playing a match or two.

I'm wondering if the collective wisdom here has any insights for me. Should I limit it to the Quick-start rules, or should I go full-bore with actions, stress, asteroids, & etc.?

I'm thinking that I can get the most participation for the least components and time consumption by limiting it to 2 TIEs (possibly a team of 2 players) against 1 X-Wing.

Also, what tie-ins to literature, programs, other media should I make? There's the SW: Rebels that will be starting up right about then, and I imagine that many of the kids will have watched the Clone Wars. But there are also graphic novels, books, etc.

What are your thoughts?

I think the quick start rules for the first game is hard to beat. Especially if they're not tabletop gamers already.

Let them try pushing the ships around a bit and see how they like it before you start making things complicated.

As for other media, if you are doing it in a room or something so you're not disturbing other people, sound effects could be nice. Have SW music playing and maybe get a soundboard with X-Wing and Tie Fighter sounds.

I'd skip the quick-start rules, but when I teach the game I do limit it to small squads at first--usually Obsidian + Academy against Rookie + Proton Torpedoes--and leave out asteroids. Once you have a few players comfortable with the game, you can open things up to larger lists (and if a new player joins up, have one of your padawans start over with him or her at the 25-point level).

As for tie-ins, IIRC there's nothing in the old X-wing series of novels to seriously trip anyone's content alarm for kids in their late teens, so I'd definitely endorse those. And of course re-watching the OT is always worth doing.

You're going to give those poor teenagers the impression that libraries are used for something other than sleeping between classes.

Leaving out the asteroids is very useful at first. There's enough to worry about without them when you're starting. I sort of "ambassador" at my LGS, loaning out ships and teaching new folks. We usually run the Quick start runs, then we move to a build of some sort, then add the asteroids. With new folks, I try to be predictable in my movements so they can start to understand movement, and if they seem serious about the game, I will explain why I did what I did.

Mostly, I let them lead how deep they want to go in regards to giving advice or complexity of build. My key point in this ramble, I guess is...

1.) Quick start

2.) Built Squad

3.) Asteroids

I hope any of this was useful.

You're going to give those poor teenagers the impression that libraries are used for something other than sleeping between classes.

Ha! Well, I wasn't going to have this at a school library.

Alright, so at the moment I'm hearing 2:1 in favor of the quick start rules. Right now I'm tempted to do so, except that I think I should adopt the red maneuver and stress mechanic, while leaving out target locks and focus tokens.

I like the idea of sound boards. Many of these kids might have smart phones on which they can download a sound board. I'll check to see what I can do about playing the SW music. I don't think having the movies playing in the background is an option. The library has rules about showing copyrighted content without express license to do so in a public setting.

Use the Quick Start rules for the first game, then the regular for the second.

Or, at least that's what i would do.

As far as tie-ins to literature, you could put some SW books, like the old x-wing series or something.

"That's the beauty of the alphabet, it gives you twenty-six plans to choose from..."-Fi Skirata

I don't like the quick start rules personally. They don't allow for a larger picture of the game.

Instead I prefer just toning the game down for first game.

-50 pt list

-half asteroids

-try to incorporate 1 or 2 very simple upgrade cards into the game. Etc.

I just feel actions and abilities are far too important (and fun) to ignore in a first game.

Just my opinion anyway.

I don't like the quick start rules personally. They don't allow for a larger picture of the game.

Instead I prefer just toning the game down for first game.

-50 pt list

-half asteroids

-try to incorporate 1 or 2 very simple upgrade cards into the game. Etc.

I just feel actions and abilities are far too important (and fun) to ignore in a first game.

Just my opinion anyway.

Yeah, actually that might not be a bad idea, actions are very important in the game.

"That's the beauty of the alphabet, it gives you twenty-six plans to choose from..."-Fi Skirata

Hmm, now we're split 3:2 in favor/against a graduated introduction of the rules starting with the quick start rules. My problem is that I shouldn't have the program run much more than 2 hours, I think.

I'm also seeing this thread on the earliest age to start teaching kids the game. I'm aiming this at ~14-17 year olds.

The hesitation I have is to what degree this game will tickle kids who are used to more video games that are probably much more immersive than a miniatures game is. Once I would have said that our game is more social, but video-games are fairly social now too. What's the added-value for this age group?

I'd go with 50-point premade squads, using the standard rules (sans asteroids). Run a squad set up to explain stress, focus, target lock, etc. (build it to incorporate all those things) for your initial demo game, and go slowly and explain every step. Once the first game is done, have people choose from among the 50-point squads and pair off. If you have significantly more players than squads, have them form teams (probably each player runs one ship, or two if you have a bunch of TIEs in a squad).

Hmm, now we're split 3:2 in favor/against a graduated introduction of the rules starting with the quick start rules. My problem is that I shouldn't have the program run much more than 2 hours, I think.

I'm also seeing this thread on the earliest age to start teaching kids the game. I'm aiming this at ~14-17 year olds.

The hesitation I have is to what degree this game will tickle kids who are used to more video games that are probably much more immersive than a miniatures game is. Once I would have said that our game is more social, but video-games are fairly social now too. What's the added-value for this age group?

Eh, throw me in with the quick start lot. It's all I've ever used to teach new people, and it works just fine.

Hmm, now we're split 3:2 in favor/against a graduated introduction of the rules starting with the quick start rules. My problem is that I shouldn't have the program run much more than 2 hours, I think.

I'm also seeing this thread on the earliest age to start teaching kids the game. I'm aiming this at ~14-17 year olds.

The hesitation I have is to what degree this game will tickle kids who are used to more video games that are probably much more immersive than a miniatures game is. Once I would have said that our game is more social, but video-games are fairly social now too. What's the added-value for this age group?

Well, you're right there, video games are much more immersive than x-wing, but they're totally different.

The hesitation I have is to what degree this game will tickle kids who are used to more video games that are probably much more immersive than a miniatures game is. Once I would have said that our game is more social, but video-games are fairly social now too. What's the added-value for this age group?

Well, you're right there, video games are much more immersive than x-wing, but they're totally different.

Quite so - they're different, but they're competing for these kids' entertainment time.

I read in the other thread that you're a youngling. What draws you to this game when you might be playing a video game instead?

The hesitation I have is to what degree this game will tickle kids who are used to more video games that are probably much more immersive than a miniatures game is. Once I would have said that our game is more social, but video-games are fairly social now too. What's the added-value for this age group?

Well, you're right there, video games are much more immersive than x-wing, but they're totally different.

Quite so - they're different, but they're competing for these kids' entertainment time.

I read in the other thread that you're a youngling. What draws you to this game when you might be playing a video game instead?

Well, actually i play videogames a lot too. I've played strategy games since i was seven, and i really like them.

"That's the beauty of the alphabet, it gives you Twenty-six plans to choose from..."-Fi Skirata

The hesitation I have is to what degree this game will tickle kids who are used to more video games that are probably much more immersive than a miniatures game is. Once I would have said that our game is more social, but video-games are fairly social now too. What's the added-value for this age group?

Well, you're right there, video games are much more immersive than x-wing, but they're totally different.

Quite so - they're different, but they're competing for these kids' entertainment time.

I read in the other thread that you're a youngling. What draws you to this game when you might be playing a video game instead?

Well, actually i play videogames a lot too. I've played strategy games since i was seven, and i really like them.

Okay, sure, but why do you play X-Wing when you might devote more time to video games if you weren't playing X-Wing?

TheMetalBikini had a good article about intro games.

Okay, sure, but why do you play X-Wing when you might devote more time to video games if you weren't playing X-Wing?

Why do I play X-Wing when I could be playing Magic, video games, or any of the other pastimes that suit my fancy? Because I feel like it. It's not about catering to an age group, it's about personal preference. I'm sure there are plenty of people out there who love miniatures gaming, but just don't know it yet. That's where you come in.

The hesitation I have is to what degree this game will tickle kids who are used to more video games that are probably much more immersive than a miniatures game is. Once I would have said that our game is more social, but video-games are fairly social now too. What's the added-value for this age group?

Well, you're right there, video games are much more immersive than x-wing, but they're totally different.

Quite so - they're different, but they're competing for these kids' entertainment time.

I read in the other thread that you're a youngling. What draws you to this game when you might be playing a video game instead?

Well, actually i play videogames a lot too. I've played strategy games since i was seven, and i really like them.

Okay, sure, but why do you play X-Wing when you might devote more time to video games if you weren't playing X-Wing?

I don't know. I normally play X-wing after dinner with my dad, so i couldn't play videogames anyway, but i just like tabletop games more than videogames.

"That's the beauty of the alphabet, it gives you Twenty-six plans to choose from..."-Fi Skirata

TheMetalBikini had a good article about intro games.

Thanks! That's helpful.

Okay, sure, but why do you play X-Wing when you might devote more time to video games if you weren't playing X-Wing?

Why do I play X-Wing when I could be playing Magic, video games, or any of the other pastimes that suit my fancy? Because I feel like it. It's not about catering to an age group, it's about personal preference. I'm sure there are plenty of people out there who love miniatures gaming, but just don't know it yet. That's where you come in.

I don't know. I normally play X-wing after dinner with my dad, so i couldn't play videogames anyway, but i just like tabletop games more than videogames.

Fair enough. In any population there's a certain distribution of preferences. My hope is to facilitate people discovering urges they never knew that they had.

Fair enough. In any population there's a certain distribution of preferences. My hope is to facilitate people discovering urges they never knew that they had.

I get what you're saying, but some re-rephrasing might be in order.

Fair enough. In any population there's a certain distribution of preferences. My hope is to facilitate people discovering urges they never knew that they had.

I get what you're saying, but some re-rephrasing might be in order.

Well, it's not part of my sales pitch, if that's what you're afraid of.

i was always surprised that the quick start rules omitted actions, theyre so important to the game.

I would say, no asteroids though. and small basic easy to understand squads.

One thing that FFG should do that would greatly increase the speed of teaching the game is to print newer range rulers with a reminder that range 1 attacks in red get +1 dice and range 3 defenses in green get +1 dice. It would be easy to see right there on the ruler and less to explain with your words, when there's already so much to remember/absorb when learning this game.

my choice of squad:

Rookie X

Red X (44)

vs

AP

NB

MM (44)

All included in the core.

This teaches pilot skill with no ties.