Resurrection vs. Finger of Death/Fireball

By The_Warlock, in Talisman Rules Questions

I had an argument during a game last night about the use of Resurrection after Finger of Death.

Q: Can a character cast Resurrection to revive an Enemy killed by Finger of Death?

I say no because Resurrection says "Cast after a character kills an Enemy during an attack" and Finger of Death kills the Enemy before the battle, not during the attack.

The other player thinks the opposite way, because Finger of Death says "about to engage in battle" and he thinks this moment is part of the attack (=combat). So, with Finger of Death you're actually killing the creature "during an attack".

Do you have any thoughts to help settle the argument?

Edited by The_Warlock

I think combat includes the period prior to rolling the attack dice, during which spells and other effects can be played.

In other words, the beginning of combat is identical to the point when the encounter begins. If you have to, say, choose to encounter a character (ie instead of a space) to initiate battle, then that point is the start of battle. And thus it includes any pre-attack-roll abilities.

So I would say spells like Finger of Death, which can be cast only after you have committed to the fight (and can't, say, choose to encounter the space again) are considered part of the combat encounter and would be subjected to spells like Resurrection.

I agree with Artaterxes on this one.

I'd say base game rules p.10 gives a definite answer.
An Attack is the whole process of either a Battle or a Psychic combat which in turn is broken down into 1-Evading, 2-Casting spells, 3/4-Attack Rolls, 5-Compare scores (resolve).

Even if the enemy was killed during 2 it would still have been killed during the attack and Resurrection would be ok.

+1 from me!

Yep +1 too.

Your interpretation is surely the right one!

I was so upset after wasting my Finger of Death because of Resurrection and missing two other useful cards that I forgot "Casting Spells" is part of the combat sequence.

If a creature is killed by a special ability or effect, for example the Fire Wizard's pyroblast, it is probably correct to assume it happens at the same time as "Casting Spells". There's no specific phase for character's abilities, except for abilities and effects that increase Strength or Craft (hidden in the paragraph "Casting Spells").

What about effects that automatically defeat the opponent? For example there's the Suleiman's Seal from Firelands that says:

You may automatically defeat a Spirit or Elemental in your space.

Besides the use of the word "killed" that might not be relevant, this card probably works out of combat, just like the Priest's special ability or the Cross. In these cases, Resurrection shouldn't work, I suppose.

I really hate the way FFG linked to the word "killed" its so open to interpretation not to mention misleading. I am feeling this is no different it's still in the process of the attack.

...

What about effects that automatically defeat the opponent? For example there's the Suleiman's Seal from Firelands that says:

You may automatically defeat a Spirit or Elemental in your space.

...

I'd rule this the same way, automatically defeating is like fast forwarding to the no 5 step IMO where the outcome of the attack is determined. However I'm definitely prepared to admit that this is a few steps into the grey zone.

The Priest (1) on the other hand I would give the opposite ruling since it's clearly stated that this is not a Psychic combat at all.

I would never have thought of this if you hadn't brought it to my attention and if someone would play it I would probably just let it slip. I get the feeling that the developers we're less caring about wording back when the base game was published (the whole miss/lose 1/your next turn discussion might be a good example).

(1) You may choose to automatically destroy any Spirits without resorting to psychic combat.

Yep, that's how I would interpret it also. Finger Of Death valid after committing to battle. Resurrection valid thereon in. :)