As a counter to the above point about HLC and predator vs. high ps pilots, why does rex need an HLC? Try him with just predator and use the 60 points you have left to field something else awesome to go with it. I like Rex w/predator, Fel w/PtL, and Jax w/PtL. Joust with Rex, flank with Fel and send Jax into the midst of your opponent and watch them squirm. I will tell you that with even re-rolling just the one die, you get 4 hits at range 1 more often than not, and almost always 3 hits at range 2-3. This leaves you free to crit them to death with your focus.

This is similar to builds I like to run normally, high PS, few upgrades, KISS, thanks! I'll have to try this!

HLC + Predator

HLC is a 2 dice swing at long range. That means you can do a slow approach and still retain max hitting power. It ends up being a defensive as well as offensive bonus.

HLC is a 2 dice swing at long range. That means you can do a slow approach and still retain max hitting power. It ends up being a defensive as well as offensive bonus.

Sure is. But red dice are better than green ones. I guess I'm just not afraid of shooting at range 3. Maybe your green dice roll better than mine (or my opponents) do

Edit: I would also add that I will take 3 with a chance to crit over 4 with no crit especially in light of the new FAQ ruling about crits interacting with Rex's ability.

2nd Edit: How slow do you think a defender can go? It doesn't have a 1 straight maneuver. jus sayin

It's only the first shot that's altered to hits, if you use TL any crits from the re-roll stay crits plus with rexlers ability hits are all you need anyway because he can spend a focus and make every hit into a crit.

What's more shooting at an x-wing at range three with primary guns is 3v3, using HlC it's 4v2 and you'll have four defensive dice yourself.

I've killed headhunters in a single volley at range three and reduced heavier fighters to their last hull point, it's a combo that works really well.

It's only the first shot that's altered to hits, if you use TL any crits from the re-roll stay crits plus with rexlers ability hits are all you need anyway because he can spend a focus and make every hit into a crit.

What's more shooting at an x-wing at range three with primary guns is 3v3, using HlC it's 4v2 and you'll have four defensive dice yourself.

I've killed headhunters in a single volley at range three and reduced heavier fighters to their last hull point, it's a combo that works really well.

Yes HLC is a good upgrade card. Now, here's why it doesn't work spectacularly well on brath:

In order to get a TL with the focus you need two turns, Ptl, or to be handed a token.

And maybe your green dice roll better than mine or my opponents, because I have personally seen a Y-wing one shot a stealthed Fel at range 3 through an asteroid. 1 green die more or less, does not make any practical difference in my experience, but hey ymmv.

I've one shotted headhunters at range 3 and left one hull on biggs at range 3 with Rexler. For apparently 7 points less than you. It's not a combo (other than Predator - is that a combo?) but it works really well.

Now I don't disagree that HLC is a great card. Or that it isn't good on defenders - it's a natural fit on Vessery. But on Brath? No Thanks

Edited because grammar is hard apparently

I'm in the same boat of, "I'd rather not have HLC on Brath." To be fair though, I like the Delta & Vessery WAY better than Brath.

HLC is a 2 dice swing at long range. That means you can do a slow approach and still retain max hitting power. It ends up being a defensive as well as offensive bonus.

Sure is. But red dice are better than green ones. I guess I'm just not afraid of shooting at range 3. Maybe your green dice roll better than mine (or my opponents) do

Edit: I would also add that I will take 3 with a chance to crit over 4 with no crit especially in light of the new FAQ ruling about crits interacting with Rex's ability.

2nd Edit: How slow do you think a defender can go? It doesn't have a 1 straight maneuver. jus sayin

1turn -> barrel roll out/back?

At long range:

HLC vs AGI 1: 4 red vs 1 green 1.625 average expected damage

Primary vs AGI 1: 3 red vs 2 green 0.75

HLC vs AGI 2: 4 red vs 2 green 1.25

Primary vs AGI 2: 3 red vs 3 green 0.375

HLC vs AGI 3: 4 red vs 3 green 0.875

Primary vs. AGI 3: 3 red vs 4 green no expected damage

Focus puts the advantage even more in the HLC's favor, as it both makes the attacker's focus stronger (more dice) and the defender's weaker (less dice). Averages are an easy, but sketchy way to look at expected damage in this game. They're not perfect, but they show the vast difference in expected damage between the HLC and the Primary at long range. I'm not showing the numbers, but it's still pretty great at mid range, too. The way I figure, you're paying a bunch of points for a tough SOB with high PS in the form of Rexler Brath. The marginal cost increase for an HLC is pretty small over the cost of the ship/pilot in the first place, and has a far higher expected damage output. Admittedly, at close range the advantage is gone, but I think that wastes some of the Defender's other capabilities.

The Defender slow approach is a 1-bank with barrel roll. It effectively lets you hold Brath back on a flank until your main group is engaged, or just slow him down so he's a range increment or so further back from your main force, making him a worse target. Either way, you can engage from longer range initially. Ideally at some point in the battle you want to get an HLC Defender pointed off angle from the main body of the opposing squad. That lets you control distance the best.

At long range:

HLC vs AGI 1: 4 red vs 1 green 1.625 average expected damage

Primary vs AGI 1: 3 red vs 2 green 0.75

HLC vs AGI 2: 4 red vs 2 green 1.25

Primary vs AGI 2: 3 red vs 3 green 0.375

HLC vs AGI 3: 4 red vs 3 green 0.875

Primary vs. AGI 3: 3 red vs 4 green no expected damage

Focus puts the advantage even more in the HLC's favor, as it both makes the attacker's focus stronger (more dice) and the defender's weaker (less dice). Averages are an easy, but sketchy way to look at expected damage in this game. They're not perfect, but they show the vast difference in expected damage between the HLC and the Primary at long range. I'm not showing the numbers, but it's still pretty great at mid range, too. The way I figure, you're paying a bunch of points for a tough SOB with high PS in the form of Rexler Brath. The marginal cost increase for an HLC is pretty small over the cost of the ship/pilot in the first place, and has a far higher expected damage output. Admittedly, at close range the advantage is gone, but I think that wastes some of the Defender's other capabilities.

The Defender slow approach is a 1-bank with barrel roll. It effectively lets you hold Brath back on a flank until your main group is engaged, or just slow him down so he's a range increment or so further back from your main force, making him a worse target. Either way, you can engage from longer range initially. Ideally at some point in the battle you want to get an HLC Defender pointed off angle from the main body of the opposing squad. That lets you control distance the best.

Right on. You play him that way and I'll joust with him. And laugh as I use my token to turn crits and you use yours to score hits. I love this game. It definitely supports a wide range of playstyles!

At long range:

HLC vs AGI 1: 4 red vs 1 green 1.625 average expected damage

Primary vs AGI 1: 3 red vs 2 green 0.75

HLC vs AGI 2: 4 red vs 2 green 1.25

Primary vs AGI 2: 3 red vs 3 green 0.375

HLC vs AGI 3: 4 red vs 3 green 0.875

Primary vs. AGI 3: 3 red vs 4 green no expected damage

Focus puts the advantage even more in the HLC's favor, as it both makes the attacker's focus stronger (more dice) and the defender's weaker (less dice). Averages are an easy, but sketchy way to look at expected damage in this game. They're not perfect, but they show the vast difference in expected damage between the HLC and the Primary at long range. I'm not showing the numbers, but it's still pretty great at mid range, too. The way I figure, you're paying a bunch of points for a tough SOB with high PS in the form of Rexler Brath. The marginal cost increase for an HLC is pretty small over the cost of the ship/pilot in the first place, and has a far higher expected damage output. Admittedly, at close range the advantage is gone, but I think that wastes some of the Defender's other capabilities.

The Defender slow approach is a 1-bank with barrel roll. It effectively lets you hold Brath back on a flank until your main group is engaged, or just slow him down so he's a range increment or so further back from your main force, making him a worse target. Either way, you can engage from longer range initially. Ideally at some point in the battle you want to get an HLC Defender pointed off angle from the main body of the opposing squad. That lets you control distance the best.

HLC on a Defender is a beautiful thing, I just don't think it works well on Brath.

• With a 4-die attack, Predator is nice, but it's way worse than a TL.
• With an HLC, you want to stay at range 3. However, at range 3 you'll be in a lot more arcs and have a higher chance of being shot at. If you spend your focus to attack, the Defender REALLY suffers on defense.

I think Brath works a lot better as a close-range brawler. His PS-8 will give him a lot more chances to dodge arcs, especially equipped with an Engine Upgrade. Slap an Autoblaster on him also and for a combined 9 points he's a monster at close range. The autoblaster also increases his chances of not needing to spend that focus for his attack roll. Hell, an ion cannon on Brath is pretty good too. His ability helps to mitigate the only one point of damage thing.

HLC on Vessery or a Delta is pure magic though.

Personal preference, I guess. I like TIE/lns for brawling. I've also found that Defenders stand up really well to range 3 fire that isn't an HLC. 4 green dice blocks a lot of hits, and 3 shields help a ton for when you're really unlucky.

Personal preference, I guess. I like TIE/lns for brawling. I've also found that Defenders stand up really well to range 3 fire that isn't an HLC. 4 green dice blocks a lot of hits, and 3 shields help a ton for when you're really unlucky.

Totally. Different strokes for different folks.

That's one thing I really like about this game. There's so many different combinations and the viability of ships/upgrades has a lot to do with how you personally fly them. Some combos that would be terrible for me would be fantastic for someone else.

That's also why I don't like it when other people (not you) go into a thread and say, "This ship is bad and you should feel bad for using it." Just because something doesn't work for you, doesn't mean it's bad for everyone. There's a lot more to a ship than pointing it at an opponent and rolling red dice.

It bugs me when people hate a ship purely on numbers, maths is fine but it cant account for individual skill of a player and his opponent's, its not possible people are using the ship well because numbers say its terrible.

I have a question about the timing of Brath's Pilot Ability. The card says:

After you perform an attack that deals at least 1 Damage card to the defender, you may spend a focus token to flip those cards faceup.

When does this happen? Instantly as the damage is done? Any time between doing damage and the end of Brath's activation?

Here is the situation that I wanted to inquire about:

Brath lands a hit and a crit on Dutch. Dutch manages to dodge the hit, but eats the crit. Unfortunately, Dutch has no shields left, and flips up a Minor Explosion (Immediately roll 1 attack die. On a <hit> result, suffer 1 damage. Then flip this card face down.)

When can I activate Brath's ability? Can I wait for him to roll, hopefully eat another damage, flip everything face down and then I spend the focus to cause both those cards to become crits? And does he have to do the Minor Explosion all over again?

Brath's ability kicks in after you turn the card face down the latest update says so, so you inflict that crit or twice in effect.

I have a question about the timing of Brath's Pilot Ability. The card says:

After you perform an attack that deals at least 1 Damage card to the defender, you may spend a focus token to flip those cards faceup.

When does this happen? Instantly as the damage is done? Any time between doing damage and the end of Brath's activation?

Here is the situation that I wanted to inquire about:

Brath lands a hit and a crit on Dutch. Dutch manages to dodge the hit, but eats the crit. Unfortunately, Dutch has no shields left, and flips up a Minor Explosion (Immediately roll 1 attack die. On a <hit> result, suffer 1 damage. Then flip this card face down.)

When can I activate Brath's ability? Can I wait for him to roll, hopefully eat another damage, flip everything face down and then I spend the focus to cause both those cards to become crits? And does he have to do the Minor Explosion all over again?

According to the new FAQ, yes, that's how it works. First, crits your opponent received are resolved. THEN you may use Brath's ability. So your opponent would eat the Minor Explosion twice.

Edit:

I have a question about the timing of Brath's Pilot Ability. The card says:

After you perform an attack that deals at least 1 Damage card to the defender, you may spend a focus token to flip those cards faceup.

When does this happen? Instantly as the damage is done? Any time between doing damage and the end of Brath's activation?

Here is the situation that I wanted to inquire about:

Brath lands a hit and a crit on Dutch. Dutch manages to dodge the hit, but eats the crit. Unfortunately, Dutch has no shields left, and flips up a Minor Explosion (Immediately roll 1 attack die. On a <hit> result, suffer 1 damage. Then flip this card face down.)

When can I activate Brath's ability? Can I wait for him to roll, hopefully eat another damage, flip everything face down and then I spend the focus to cause both those cards to become crits? And does he have to do the Minor Explosion all over again?

It happens after the attack, and thus happens after everything during the attack has resolved, including Minor Explosion.

Gentlemen,

I just took some of the advice that you gave me and ran this list:

Rex + HLC for 44

Jonus + VI, HM x2 and MFS for 34 points

Mauler + VI for 18 points

This is only 96 total points, and I know I should have added an EPT to Rex. My go-to is VI (based on fighting high PS opponents) but I wanted Rex to shoot after my PS9 Mauler and my PS8 Jonus. I also did not use Predator (although highly recommended) because I was playing for the Initiative.

I also took the advice about flying the Defender... the comments about jousting are absolutely right. I have seen this done (both by me and against me) before, but not to the extent that it happened tonight. It really is all about playing to the one-trick-pony strength. Tonight I think I did more white Ks than any two other maneuvers combined. This is absolutely devastating against opponents that just did a red K turn and it works out that your white K cannot be blocked by their available maneuvers...

The bottom line on the Defender's dial is that it really does not matter if you are predictable if there is nothing your opponent can do about it. The challenge is to make that happen.

In the end, it could have gone either way, but I finally caught a break in the end and beat a vicious list - PS10 Wes, Wedge and Horton (with a silly amount of upgrades that made him equally painful).

I really did not get to benefit from Jonus too much. This was partly my own early mistake of misjudging distance (so he could not acquire the TL he needed unless he broke off the joust and attacked the flank) and partly my opponent doing 5 damage on one Regular PT attack from Horton (again a little silly). However, (silliness aside) I can see how Jonus can be a real boost to Rex and still be worth while himself; x2 HM + MFS is very nasty even for the 11 points. During my game he finished what Mauler started and took out Horton with HM during Simultaneous Fire. Also, Jonus provides that boost at a very reasonable cost...

Finally, I just want to thank everyone for the contributions.

3 ship builds are tough.

Especially with the imperial.

I did Ok with the build I posted on page one of this thread, but playing around with the squad builder thought this looked like fun. However it's a 3 ship build.

Rex

Hlc

Jonus

Concussion misslet

MF

Jax

PtL.

More of a fun build

Keep jonus and Rex together.

Use Jax to flank and hope for the best

With jonus and Rex you may get a small alpha strike. Get Jax into position and get real annoying for your opponent not being able to focus or evade.

Make it easier to get those hits through

According to the new FAQ, yes, that's how it works. First, crits your opponent received are resolved. THEN you may use Brath's ability. So your opponent would eat the Minor Explosion twice.

Edit:

If you are really lucky this means one crit could turn into 4 damage (minor explosion deals a face down direct hit, both get flipped up then you take another damage from the explosion) not quite enough to one shot a Y-wing with a 4 dice range 1/missile attack(unless you are using proton rockets and are even luckier) but it could be quite fun if it does chain like that

At long range:

HLC vs AGI 1: 4 red vs 1 green 1.625 average expected damage

Primary vs AGI 1: 3 red vs 2 green 0.75

HLC vs AGI 2: 4 red vs 2 green 1.25

Primary vs AGI 2: 3 red vs 3 green 0.375

HLC vs AGI 3: 4 red vs 3 green 0.875

Primary vs. AGI 3: 3 red vs 4 green no expected damage

Focus puts the advantage even more in the HLC's favor, as it both makes the attacker's focus stronger (more dice) and the defender's weaker (less dice). Averages are an easy, but sketchy way to look at expected damage in this game. They're not perfect, but they show the vast difference in expected damage between the HLC and the Primary at long range. I'm not showing the numbers, but it's still pretty great at mid range, too. The way I figure, you're paying a bunch of points for a tough SOB with high PS in the form of Rexler Brath. The marginal cost increase for an HLC is pretty small over the cost of the ship/pilot in the first place, and has a far higher expected damage output. Admittedly, at close range the advantage is gone, but I think that wastes some of the Defender's other capabilities.

I would say that that is not quite the "actual" numbers we would be comparing since I believe the question was predator vs a HLC not just normal vs HLC. That said the HLC will still win probably but it will be a closer gap.

Its also not strictly a choice in Damage output either for the same 7 points I can have predator AND EU vs a HLC. The HLC probably will put out more damage at longer range but if I have boost I can avoid arcs, get closer range shots which combined with predator+the ability to crit could be more worthwhile. Again though the fact we have the ability to choose how we want to equip our ships to match our play style is amazing and what works for me may not work for you or vice versa.