Another Freebooter question: Why would I spend 300XP on Hulking?
The measly +1 Move doesn't outweigh the nasty +10 to hit that your opponents get, and it doesn't appear to give any other bonus, nor is it a prerequisite for other things
Sell me on Hulking
Because you don't want to be no small green humie without da respect o da warboss.
Wasn't there in RT some rule for Opposed Strength test and size modifier.
So bigger character gains # DoS for difference in size. Something like that, AFB at the moment.
Yes, on Grapple tests you gain an additional DoS. Not much, but something.
I see now that this has been addressed before, and that I missed the prerequisites for Unnatural Strength and Fear 1
Another Freebooter question: Why would I spend 300XP on Hulking?
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nor is it a prerequisite for other things
In my copy of ItS*, it's a prerequisite for both Unnatural Strength (at rank 6) and Fear (1) (at rank 7). While Fear (1) is perhaps unimpressive, Unnatural Strength is really nice, especially combined with the Might Makes Right trait and perhaps the Lissen Ta Me, Coz I'z da Biggest Talent.
* Just checked - it's in both the physical and the digital copy. The errata 1.4 does not seem to remove it as a prerequisite from either.
Aside from the already discussed things which hulking is a prerequisite for I also houserule that a hulking creature can handle basic weapons as though they were pistol weapons so now they can fire one from each hand.
Anyone with recoil gloves could do that already, though.
True, but I can't imagine an Ork wearing recoil gloves. Plus the way I use the rule it basically shifts all weapons one category down.
This means a hulking Ork can weild heavy weapons as though they were basic, basic weapons as though they were pistols and pistols can be upgraded to be Bigga which gives them increased strength and ammo capacity. I was just too lazy to clarify it in my first post.
So a guy with power armour and recoil gloves could dual-wield heavy weapons? Groovy.
Only if you assume power armour doesn't already have gloves built into it.
I generally wouldn't let people wear recoil gloves over power armour.
Edited by WeedyGrotNo, no, I meant that if being hulking means being able to use heavy weapons as if they were basic, I would generally assume that includes being able to wield them in one hand.
That would render Bulging Biceps obsolete, yes?
Only if you assume power armour doesn't already have gloves built into it.
I generally wouldn't let people wear recoil gloves over power armour.
They pretty explicitly don't have them built in, since it's part of one of the additional features of Heavy Power Armour. I would assume that recoil gloves - being gloves - would be worn *under* the armour. There are also implants that do the same thing as the gloves.
Heck, even without the gloves, as an arch-militant I'd be more than happy to soak up that -20 penalty for the privilege of dual-wielding plasma cannons or multi-meltas. Heck, If you're still using Rogue Trader rules as opposed to Only War, the Full-Auto bonus on top of everything else, dual heavy bolters or assault cannons becomes a very tempting prospect. You might have to crab-walk through every door you encounter, but it'd be totally worth it.
Of course, these are your house rules, so I don't particularly expect this'll be allowed. I'm just speculating about the consequences of what you've told me so far.
I'm with Magellan on this. A blanket rule of turning Basic weapons into Pistol weapons and Heavy weapons into Basic weapons when your Size is Hulking sounds like a very dodgy thing to do at a very loose rationale, and has some staggering consequences that you may not have considered.
There are situations where I'd allow it, personally, for sure. In fact, just the other day I was in a discussion where I defended the idea of having a Hulking opponent with Integrated/Mutated (Black Crusade, Slayer Limb) heavy weapons instead of arms.
But as a blanket rule, I want to add my voice in highlighting and underlining the very odd and potentially devastating effects of it. Now, as a GM, I doubt anyone would let it happen once he realized what it meant, but to avoid future headaches, just don't make it a blanket house rule that you sell to your players, because your players will abuse it if given the chance, you will have to deal with it, and then everyone gets annoyed. The GM gets annoyed with his players abusing **** just because they can, and the players gets annoyed at the GM being inconsistent, random and nofunallowed.jpg.
I'd be tempted to discuss it as a blanket rule at Size 6, Enormous - the size of small walkers, krootox, and daemonic juggernauts. But even then...
The way I run it the character themselves has to be hulking. Wearing hulking power armour doesn't net you the same advantages as (to me) hulking power armour is still designed to interact with things that are average size. To me that means the gloves are likely to be more or less the same size as a humans hands normally are. In fact if you look at the power armoured minatures most of the mass appears to be shoulder pads
I consider that actually being hulking to be an all over increase so they have larger hands and can handle guns in ways in which they were not meant to be handled.
The way I run it the character themselves has to be hulking. Wearing hulking power armour doesn't net you the same advantages as (to me) hulking power armour is still designed to interact with things that are average size. To me that means the gloves are likely to be more or less the same size as a humans hands normally are. In fact if you look at the power armoured minatures most of the mass appears to be shoulder pads
I consider that actually being hulking to be an all over increase so they have larger hands and can handle guns in ways in which they were not meant to be handled.
Thing is, without even opening the books, I can think of two easy ways to become Hulking. Not Space Marine-hulking, not Power Armoure-hulking. Straight up personal hulking. Mutations or being an Ork.
Then there's the ROGUE TRADER way. Press-gang a world of Ratlings onto your vessel to replace all your crew, and succumb to the delusion that you're a giant among normal sized men.
Thing is, without even opening the books, I can think of two easy ways to become Hulking. Not Space Marine-hulking, not Power Armoure-hulking. Straight up personal hulking. Mutations or being an Ork.
Indeed and those are both fine to me. If you're a mutant that ended up as hulking then more power to you. That said I don't let people spend 200xp to choose their mutations on character creation so getting hulking that way is not a sure thing.
If you're an Ork that doesn't try to dual wield heavy weapons then you're doing it wrong
Then there's the ROGUE TRADER way. Press-gang a world of Ratlings onto your vessel to replace all your crew, and succumb to the delusion that you're a giant among normal sized men.
Oh, just go grim-dark and just get malnourished humans. Ratlings are rather tricky, I wouldn't want a ship full of them.
Then there's the ROGUE TRADER way. Press-gang a world of Ratlings onto your vessel to replace all your crew, and succumb to the delusion that you're a giant among normal sized men.
Oh, just go grim-dark and just get malnourished humans. Ratlings are rather tricky, I wouldn't want a ship full of them.
Malnourished Ratlings would keep their mischeviousness down, and increase your delusional size to Enormous!
I consider that actually being hulking to be an all over increase so they have larger hands and can handle guns in ways in which they were not meant to be handled.
More likely: wouldn't be able to use because your fingers are too big.
And no. Being big (and/or strong) doesn't really make a basic weapon into a pistol. The shape is wrong. Which means the angular momentum is very different from what you'd expect with a pistol, which again means it behaves nothing like a pistol.
Bulging Biceps, which pretty much turns Heavy Weapons into Basic Weapons, is silly enough, but atleast they have a somewhat similar shape.
Indeed and those are both fine to me. If you're a mutant that ended up as hulking then more power to you. That said I don't let people spend 200xp to choose their mutations on character creation so getting hulking that way is not a sure thing.
If you're an Ork that doesn't try to dual wield heavy weapons then you're doing it wrong
So orks in your games are automatically better at both close combat and ranged combat? That sounds more than a little unfair.
Out of morbid (and somewhat terrified) curiosity - how long is your list of house rules, anyway?
I'd not allow larger characters to treat weapon categories as reduced, indeed i would impose penalties on using certain weapon types due to the size and shape of the grips, fire selectors, magazine release catches etc (See Deathwatch for rules on Astartes using human scaled weapons).
Indeed and those are both fine to me. If you're a mutant that ended up as hulking then more power to you. That said I don't let people spend 200xp to choose their mutations on character creation so getting hulking that way is not a sure thing.
If you're an Ork that doesn't try to dual wield heavy weapons then you're doing it wrong
So orks in your games are automatically better at both close combat and ranged combat? That sounds more than a little unfair.
Out of morbid (and somewhat terrified) curiosity - how long is your list of house rules, anyway?
Being able to dual wield heavy weapons doesn't make the Orks better at ranged combat. They still have poor ballistic skill and in situations like tight corridors with not much open space they find themselves in close combat with limited ability to fire heavy weapons soon enough.
I do apply a penalty to a hulking character if they attempt to use pistol weapons that haven't been upscaled for them.. I don't have access to the Deathwatch rules so it is closer to the Ogryn rules from Only War.
I do have a fair few house rules but I am using the game in a way it wasn't really intended. My characters are all greenskins looking for adventure and a few good fights.