I know its probably better business to sell the new content as a whole rule book, but I have most of the rules from Edge. I wish they'd put the new content in a paperback (kinda like the rulebook from the beginner box) so I'd have access without having to drop the money on the new book (plus have to lug around another impressively sized book). I guess it won't hurt to have another book to reference to keep the game moving, just seems like a convenient option without resorting to piracy.

There is the beta. Duty isn't really different from beta, and players have done the Talent trees for free from the new book, so you actually do have a cheaper paperback alternative. If you don't care about Duty, you could just get by fine with the player made Talent trees.

FFG's been pretty clear that their design goal is "three separate core rulebooks that can stand alone but be seamlessly integrated" from the very beginning.

As 2P51 noted, some folks have put the AoR careers and specializations out on the web for free, and the bulk of the rules content in AoR isn't that much different from EotE.

I would be more interested in a super-sized tome that incorporates all 3 core books!

I wish they'd done it the way I want so I wouldn't have to pirate it. Guess they don't want my money.

I would be more interested in a super-sized tome that incorporates all 3 core books!

Now that's what I'm expecting once the whole schemer is done. Just do that instead of second/third printing for core books.

I would be more interested in a super-sized tome that incorporates all 3 core books!

Now that's what I'm expecting once the whole schemer is done. Just do that instead of second/third printing for core books.

I'd be really surprised to see something like.

It'd be probably 800 pages, would weigh like 10 pounds and cost upwards of $150...

I would be more interested in a super-sized tome that incorporates all 3 core books!

Now that's what I'm expecting once the whole schemer is done. Just do that instead of second/third printing for core books.

I'd be really surprised to see something like.

It'd be probably 800 pages, would weigh like 10 pounds and cost upwards of $150...

*runs numbers* Yeah... if you include all fluff and rules, even after eliminating dupes, you're looking at about 800 pages.

Honestly I'd like to see searchable pdfs more. Or any pdfs really.

Tell Lucasfilm/Disney. It's the License Agreement originally penned back in the 80's that's preventing PDFs. According to that a PDF of a game book is an "Electronic Game" so only EA can make it. And you know those guys are going to want 80% of all profits and a mandatory online component.

I would be more interested in a super-sized tome that incorporates all 3 core books!

Now that's what I'm expecting once the whole schemer is done. Just do that instead of second/third printing for core books.

I'd be really surprised to see something like.

It'd be probably 800 pages, would weigh like 10 pounds and cost upwards of $150...

Yeah but if you're wishing...you go big, right?

The CRBs are a done deal so I am more interested in what else going forward. Will there be timeline expansions would be far more interesting to me than consolidated CRBs or PDF files. An Old Republic sourcebook or TCWs, some indication that there will be a book shortly after the first new movie is out covering that, etc.

I just want to know what will be in F&D? What can they do to make a whole rulebook out of it?

Also, on that note, I've heavily enjoyed the game without jedi. The universe is captivating enough as-is, although the jedi stories are great.

The CRBs are a done deal so I am more interested in what else going forward. Will there be timeline expansions would be far more interesting to me than consolidated CRBs or PDF files. An Old Republic sourcebook or TCWs, some indication that there will be a book shortly after the first new movie is out covering that, etc.

TCW seems ripe for a supp once F&D is out of Beta. Some fluff, new gear, vehicles, characters/droids, staging tips, maybe a short adventure, done and done.

I just want to know what will be in F&D? What can they do to make a whole rulebook out of it?

Also, on that note, I've heavily enjoyed the game without jedi. The universe is captivating enough as-is, although the jedi stories are great.

I'd say F&D has far more to add to the game than AoR did. We have a mere taste of the Force in the first two books, no rules pretty much at all for Lightsabers, and some vagueries about Force powers that need to be tightened up.

If anything, the pessimist in me is fearing F&D. From what I've seen, FFG seem to have a great understanding of what works and what doesn't, and have shown restraint in reining in the overpowered options.

However, if they are gonna screw up anywhere, it's gonna be here.

I don't think they will, but I'd hate this game to be remembered as the one where the power-creep went off the scale the moment the glowstick-users showed up...

They wisely left it 'til last, and I have faith it will be useable at worst. But no other Star Wars game has managed to balance the muggles and Jedi successfully (and 20+ years of lousy fanfiction in the EU doesn't help in that regard, because it's lobotomised people like poor ErikB into thinking that's the way SW has to be...) So there's that little nagging voice at the back of my head that makes me worry.

(My 2$? That Jedi can and will be able to become game-breakingly overpowered, but only after 1500-2000 XP... High level is where mages tend to dominate in other games...)

I don't think they will, but I'd hate this game to be remembered as the one where the power-creep went off the scale the moment the glowstick-users showed up...

The moment F&D comes out:

"Force Users. Force Users everywhere."

Man, if I could either play in or GM a game where we had to worry about what was happening at 1500-2000xp, that would be a great problem to have.

Between 2-hour sessions biweekly with players missing occasional sessions because of various life things, we have been playing for 7 months and our highest-XP character has 220xp.

That's kind of what I meant. At normal levels of power, the amount of XP you have to pour into the trees and specs is huge.

At the moment, having only 2 or 3 Force dice keeps them honest. But when people with 6+ dice start showing up....

I dunno. The game has already shown well that it can handle vastly different levels of power across the board. I don't see why allowing bigger Force use would be any more game-breaking than having a 500XP Soldier build fighting alongside a 300 XP Ace Pilot and a 400 XP Scholar. Each of them would have something to contribute to any properly-constructed encounter.

Sure, so a character can lift a speeder with his mind. But a different character could just blow up that speeder with his missile tube, or yet a different character could remotely slice into that speeder and do any number of things with its systems. Still another character could rig a mine to explode when someone sits down to use the speeder all stealthy-like.

Just because a character has Force powers doesn't mean everyone else in the group becomes less powerful. It just means that now the group has an expanded set of abilities from which to draw.

And the threat of the Dark Side is ever-present.

I'm not sure there is a RPG where at some point the power curve doesn't just get so high it's time to retire characters as the GM can't realistically challenge them anymore. My old DM in D&D loved the Tolkien genealogy trees from all the races and we essentially did that with our characters, looking back at the 8ish years we played growing up I'd say we probably went through 5 or 6 generations of characters.

Other than my opinion Move is OP honestly I don't view Jedi as much more than Marauders with Lightsabers, and even with more power, they're still going to be as squishy.

I have to agree, any classless system, or semi,classless in this case, will reach a point when the pcs are maxed on over half the available skills and the squishy skill monkey can solo something that could wipe out a party of low level combot characters. Though:

Move is a a lot less op then it appears, one point to activate at all, one to lift a silhouette one object, the xp cost for the attack upgrade,which uses uses a harder to get skill, one to reach medium range. So you need a minimum of two force dice for a less than 75 percent chance to attempt an attack that's only slightly stronger than a common blaster carbine. It's even harder to get the force points needed to activate the extra range and power upgrades you'd need to do anything truly impressive. The utility applications are great but I doubt that's what most people mean when they say OP.

Yes, but from those 2 to 3 Force dice it scales up quickly to absurd levels, and that's essentially the cost of a Dedication bonus. Not looking to rehash this argument but no one is convincing me Move isn't OP.

Maelora,

Then I guess it's a good thing that a F&D Beta is probably a given. This way, people can hopefully stress-test the heck out of "high end" Force users and see where the cracks in the system are. I know from my own EotE Beta testing and Ways of the Force testing that GMs should expect to see a significant spike in power once a Force user hits FR 4; thus my suggestion of capping FR at 3 in regards to my WotF supplement.

I don't know if Force users in this system will suffer the pre4e D&D caster issue, mostly as D&D casters have a lot more versatility and options to pull from than fighter-types while rogue-types are often gimped in their damage output. Unless FFG adds a slew of new Force powers in F&D, the options they've got currently between EotE and AoR cover the bulk of what we see in the movies, and they don't offer anywhere near the degree of versatility that D&D casters have at higher levels. After all, D&D 3e and Pathfinder legitimately have the "Batman Wizard" build scheme, where the PC simply has the right spell for any situation and makes the rest of the party redundant. So far, FFG has avoided Force users being able to do that, as they don't have Force powers to cover every single thing that can be done in the game.

There's also the fact that while the Force users are boosting up their Force powers, the other PCs are branching out into other specializations and picking more and more talents as well as raising both essential and non-essential skills. A Force user is generally going to focus on Discipline, at least one combat skill, and probably not much else. A non-Force user is going to be able to focus on more skills, both in their defined role and outside of it.

But this is probably a discussion for another thread. In short, I don't disagree with you that there's cause for concern, but at this point I'm willing to trust the FFG design team to know what their doing and that they'll have enough foresight to avoid the worst of the Jedi issues that plagued prior Star Wars RPGs.

Maelora,

Then I guess it's a good thing that a F&D Beta is probably a given. This way, people can hopefully stress-test the heck out of "high end" Force users and see where the cracks in the system are. I know from my own EotE Beta testing and Ways of the Force testing that GMs should expect to see a significant spike in power once a Force user hits FR 4; thus my suggestion of capping FR at 3 in regards to my WotF supplement.

I don't know if Force users in this system will suffer the pre4e D&D caster issue, mostly as D&D casters have a lot more versatility and options to pull from than fighter-types while rogue-types are often gimped in their damage output. Unless FFG adds a slew of new Force powers in F&D, the options they've got currently between EotE and AoR cover the bulk of what we see in the movies, and they don't offer anywhere near the degree of versatility that D&D casters have at higher levels. After all, D&D 3e and Pathfinder legitimately have the "Batman Wizard" build scheme, where the PC simply has the right spell for any situation and makes the rest of the party redundant. So far, FFG has avoided Force users being able to do that, as they don't have Force powers to cover every single thing that can be done in the game.

There's also the fact that while the Force users are boosting up their Force powers, the other PCs are branching out into other specializations and picking more and more talents as well as raising both essential and non-essential skills. A Force user is generally going to focus on Discipline, at least one combat skill, and probably not much else. A non-Force user is going to be able to focus on more skills, both in their defined role and outside of it.

But this is probably a discussion for another thread. In short, I don't disagree with you that there's cause for concern, but at this point I'm willing to trust the FFG design team to know what their doing and that they'll have enough foresight to avoid the worst of the Jedi issues that plagued prior Star Wars RPGs.

The system from what I have heard from the devs breaks at between 5 and 6 dice. Which is why the cap in char gen is 5 and 6 out of char gen.. I expect 6 dice to be the force rating cap.