I came up with some rules for a Huttball match, and I totally made players use Athletics for trying to throw the ball, with the difficulty being related to the range they were trying to throw it. It made sense and worked well.

Earlier today I was listening to a recent episode of Order 66, and they were talking about the bow weapon that shows up in Suns of Fortune, and how if there was a player who really wanted to become a dedicated archer, it was the perfect situation to come up with a custom ability. The RAW kept it simple for those who just wanted to dabble (and because it would have eaten up several valuable pages to describe the new combat skill).

So if you have a PC who wants to be tossing grenades around like it's their job, consider giving them a new ability they can work on for that specialty. If it's a less common thing, I think Ranged (Light) and Athletics are both fine choices for the checks.

Glad I'm not the only one.

In my huttball rules the thrower can use either Ranged (light) or Athletics. Allows a littlemore variety that way (one being Brawn based and the other Agility).

Should Computers just be used instead of Astrogation? Why use Gunnery for a grenade launcher? How come Lightsaber is a different skill?

What if I am just dropping a grenade into a hatch? I don't think I would need to be too heroic too accomplish that physically.

This use of Athletics assumes that just throwing a grenade as far as you can encompasses how grenades are used.

Accuracy was the most important element for me. When you roll for a ranged attack with any skill I think the most important thing you will be interpreting is whether you "hit" or not. While increased skill can increase other results (advantages, triumphs), it most importantly increases number of successes. Of course with the narrative dice and things like disadvantage, triumphs, etc, other results can be interpreted or thrown in, but the base success you are looking for is whether you hit or not, not how far the object went or whether you forgot the blast radius.

You: I toss a grenade at the Tusken.

GM: Ok roll Athletics. You have a high score, this should be easy.

You: <roll several Successes, but a Despair also>

GM: The grenade rolls right up to the Tusken's feet. He looks down wondering what it is and it explodes.

GM: But wait, you rolled a Despair. The grenade also catches Wic nearby within its thundering blast.

You: Ah crap I've never used one of these before! Sorry I didn't know it was that powerful!

2P51 are you ok with Athletics for other primitive items other then a grenade (bows, thrown spears, slings, thrown rocks)? If so, use Athletics as normal for them. For Grenades you could use Ranged (Light) or possilby still use Athletics but throw in setback or a downgrade as KRKappel suggested.

I tossed several flash bangs, OC grenades, and CS grenades just last week for training. My accuracy (or lack thereof) was completely determined by my athletic ability and possibly the number of times I've tossed them (to a much lesser extent). My knowledge of their affects really had no affect on where the things landed (successes). You only have to toss them once to know the affects, trust me.

So in a game perhaps toss in a downgrade the very first time or two you use a weapon you haven't been trained on? Increased chance of disadvantages/despairs can account for not knowing the affects of your weapon (crap, that blast wasn't what I expected!) or fumbling around with how to use it (in your confusion using the grenade for the first time, you dropped the body by your side and tossed the spoon at the Ewok tea party!)

What if I am just dropping a grenade into a hatch? I don't think I would need to be too heroic too accomplish that physically.

Agree, a very simple task. Do you think it's your Agility and Athletics score that determines whether you are a complete klutz or not and botch it anyway? Or should it be whether you are good with a one-handed firearm/blaster that determines if you are a klutz and mishandle tossing that grenade into a hatch? It's that kind of strange stuff that my group discussed and resulted in us eventually using Athletics.

Triumphs should be generated by an applicable skill. I can't agree with what HD posted enough, I'm fine with Range(L) for grenades just like I'm fine with Planetary Pilot for walkers and air speeders. Using Athletics isn't fixing anything that is broken and it's just inserting complexity for the sake of it.

Usually athletics is used when one is trying haul something off at a distance. Keep in mind that in competitions where distance matters, aim usually doesn't. Hammer throws, discus, shot put, javelin are all examples of athletic feats where aim is not important but distance is. On the other hand, football, baseball, cricket, require precise aim... in that case, I would keep those skills as "ranged light" --but if someone wants to simply go for distance, then athletics would be fine.

So would a Caber Toss be Ranged (Heavy)?

/hurr /hurr /hurr

No joke, yes. Ranged Light is for any ranged attack you can do one handed and Ranged Heavy is for any ranged attack you need two hands for. Which is why people were confused and unhappy about the special arrows being Ranged Light, because you still need two hands to use the bow.

In my group we stick to rules as written as much as possible. So we would stick to Ranged Light for one handed things and Ranged Heavy for two handed things. That being said, for some of those primative weapons, if someone lobbied the GM and had a good reason for using Athletics, then I'm sure it'd be allowed. But we'd look at it in a case by case basis and we'd frown upon a character baised upon using a different skill than rules as written because it could result in unintended consequences.

That being said, I think it's a great idea to use Athletics for "primative" throwing weapons and wouldn't look down upon any group who uses that house rule.

What if I am just dropping a grenade into a hatch? I don't think I would need to be too heroic too accomplish that physically.

Agree, a very simple task. Do you think it's your Agility and Athletics score that determines whether you are a complete klutz or not and botch it anyway? Or should it be whether you are good with a one-handed firearm/blaster that determines if you are a klutz and mishandle tossing that grenade into a hatch? It's that kind of strange stuff that my group discussed and resulted in us eventually using Athletics.

I would think it is the care and attention to detail I learned in weapons training that would lead to me being respectful of handling a timed explosive as opposed to spiking the volleyball which I learned in Athletics......

If I was having a player throw a rock, ball, or Frisbee in a game I would immediately think to use athletics. When you throw a grenade though the RAW is to use Ranged (light). I would never logically place throwing things under Ranged (light). Would it make more sense to make grenades an athletic roll not a ranged (light) roll?

No it wouldn't make more sense, the skills represent not just what you are doing but where you learn it. You learn to throw a ball playing sports and games, you learn to throw a grenade in boot camp, or growing up in a warzone and using them doesn't just encompass throwing them, it involves being trained in what they can do, when you should employ them, and where. The RAW are quite applicable.

See, here's the beauty of the system: if the player can justify that skill, then they can use it! As cited in the book, if a player wants use their brawn to repair hull damage in the ship by saying "I lift a chunk of metal over the hole and get someone to weld it into place!" - then so be it! Make the difficulty a little bit harder and throw a black die at them because it's an unweildly piece of deck plating.

Same thing here. If the player wants to power throw a set of car keys over a ravine to the other half of the party, and precision isn't foremost on their mind, just distance - go for it! The more successful the roll, the further the keys go and the more advantage means closer to the target - boom, sorted, move onto the next scene.

My issue is that Athletics and Coordination can be used to essentially to replace all combat skills with this line of reasoning, and many non combat skills, as you have to move your body and do anything physical. I think of Athletics and Coordination as big general broad physical activities, running, jumping, lifting, cartwheeling, etc. When a more precise action is being initiated, appropriate skill is necessary. As others have pointed out, why have Astrogation at all when you have Computers, why split Brawl and Melee up at all? In the example of Brawn for fixing the ship it can be used once per encounter as opposed to what is being put forth here. I just think there should be a sliver of light between being a champion Curling competitor and a Grenadier in regards to skill set.

I just think there should be a sliver of light between being a champion Curling competitor and a Grenadier in regards to skill set.

And I think there should be a silver of light between being a blaster pistol expert and a master archer.

The grenadier in your example would have lots of combat related talents to support his athletic skill of tossing a small metal object accurately (as opposed to that skill used to shoot pistols). He would also most of the time use Agility with Athletics when tossing a grenade. The curling competitor would be using Brawn with Athletics and have the brawnish talents of his Muscle Man career, not combat talents of the grenadier selecting the Soldier>Sharpshooter career.

The muscle man selecting Commando versus the Grenadier selecting Sharpshooter creates very different abilities even if they are both highly skilled in Athletics. Their talents are going to be supporting quite different paths and the Commando Curler will be using Brawn while the Grenadier will most often be using Agility. There would be a large fundamental difference in which one could fling grenades better. Now consider trying to make a Master Archer be quite different then a Pistoleer using RAW. You can't. A very effective Pistoleer is going to automatically be a very effective Archer with the RAW. The skill AND talents good for one are good for the other in RAW. Using Athletics fixes this somewhat.

I think you're still just inserting complexity for the sake of it where it isn't needed.

I think we should have 1 skill called hittin stuff, 1 skill called sneakin stuff, and one called thinkin stuff. We can then eliminate all complexity from the game.

It is not adding complexity. It is they made all of these skills and only half are useful. Giving Athletics or Coordination a little use in combat may be a good thing. Ranged (light) is the god stat for EotE. It would be good to cut it down a little. I know it is impossible, but all skills should be created equal. They should all be endowed by their creator with a chance to be chosen, be useful, and make a player happy you have the skill.

Stepping off soap box now.

Ranged (light) is the god stat for EotE. It would be good to cut it down a little.

My play experiences have been quite different. Ranged (Light) never seems to be too much of a problem for us. The only issue we have with it is the Pistol Grip attachment from Dangerous Covenants - which allows for carbines and rifles using Ranged (Light) - devalues Ranged (Heavy), especially in campaigns where the larger Ranged (Heavy) weapons are uncommon.

As for Athletics and Coordination, we've seen use out of both of them. Athletics challenges seem pretty common in my games - climbing, jumping, lifting, and even swimming have all come up. We've frequently used Athletics for on-foot chases. Coordination we used for a chase scene through ductwork, and also in microgravity conditions. Since we've had chases come up about as often as direct combat, these skills seem plenty useful.

Another point in using Athletics and Coordination is that you are essentially handing a combat skill to a number of Careers/Specs that were created and balanced around not having access to combat skills. Which is introducing unbalance into the game as well.

Another point in using Athletics and Coordination is that you are essentially handing a combat skill to a number of Careers/Specs that were created and balanced around not having access to combat skills. Which is introducing unbalance into the game as well.

Scout Explorer, Scout Spy and Archaeologist are the three non com classes that have athletics as a class skill.

Thief, Fringer, & the 3 Technicians are the non com classes that have coordination as a class skill.

With those small numbers, I wouldn't be adverse to using Athletics for thrown stuff, but not coordination.

When we are saying "combat skills" let's be clear that we are talking about lobbing grenades, throwing knives/spears, and using a bow or sling. Those aren't exactly common devices used in a Star Wars campaign. I don't think making Athletics the prime skill for those things is going to make careers with Athletics suddenly into combat classes.

I'm in the Athletics camp also, not using Coordination for any weapons. I listed up above somewhere which classes have access to Athletics and I don't see it as a game changer at all.

Another point in using Athletics and Coordination is that you are essentially handing a combat skill to a number of Careers/Specs that were created and balanced around not having access to combat skills. Which is introducing unbalance into the game as well.

Scout Explorer, Scout Spy and Archaeologist are the three non com classes that have athletics as a class skill.

Thief, Fringer, & the 3 Technicians are the non com classes that have coordination as a class skill.

With those small numbers, I wouldn't be adverse to using Athletics for thrown stuff, but not coordination.

So far. We have 16 splatbooks to go.

So far. We have 16 splatbooks to go.

When we are saying "combat skills" let's be clear that we are talking about lobbing grenades, throwing knives/spears, and using a bow or sling. Those aren't exactly common devices used in a Star Wars campaign. I don't think making Athletics the prime skill for those things is going to make careers with Athletics suddenly into combat classes.

I would say trying to throw an object and hit something else or land in a precise location should use the ranged skill. If you're just trying to throw something as far as you can or as hard as you can, then I would say athletics would apply.

"Never fired a gun in his life but is a god at darts"

I thought about making a talent tree thats available to everyone, with talents that double in cost each time but can be taken several times, something like a general skill tree, but I didn't get enough material I was content with. It included some things like this (couldn't decide):

(So I thought I might leave this here. to inspire someone more productive than me)

"deadeye - (lvl 1 - 10 XP, lvl 2 - 15 xp, lvl 3 - 20 xp) Add 1 boost dice per rank when making an action or attack that involves throwing something, using a sling or a bow"

or

"deadeye -(lvl 1 - 10 XP, lvl 2 - 20 xp, lvl 3 - 30 xp) You may upgrade one dice per rank when making an action or attack that involves throwing something, using a sling or a bow"

they seem quite powerful, but when you take into consideration how many times they get used...not that powerful.

It also had lots of other things like melee combat maneuvers, Traits and negative Traits, (inspired by Legend of the Five Rings - be cursed or incompetent with social skills but get more starting xp) but never got far enough to be happy with the final result.

I'm in the camp that thinks lumping thrown into the Ranged (light) category was an oversimplification. By this logic a 1 Brawn, 4 Agility character is a demon with grenades and that doesn't sit right. Good pitchers and quarterbacks are strong. They also have long limbs, but that's probably too nitty-gritty for an RPG.

Personally, I don't think that accuracy with firearms has much to do with agility at all. It's all about spatial awareness and that's more of a Cunning thing. It's too late to fix it now and there is a lot of gamer inertia behind the idea that accuracy and agility are linked. From a game balance standpoint Agility needs to have the ranged skills, Cunning already has too many good ones.

More classes have access to Athletics and that's a bonus in my book. I don't like the idea that players have to sit and spin when the current challenge isn't in their character's wheelhouse. It's boring and I don't game to be bored. Giving the Archeologist something to do in a fight is a good thing.

Had a character use deception once to dead drop a proton torpedo from his X-Wing and get another character to run into it. It was a torpedo attack using deception but it fit the narration so we rolled with it.

I think if the narration works go with it. It is what separates a narrative game from a strict tactical game or a board game.

So I think I will keep with grenades being Ranged (light) or Athletics depending on how you narrate what you are doing and how you doing it.

Oh, Trying to throw something in a precise location is the difference between someone brawny and someone who is a trained athlete. Shooting a three pointer is all about athletics, being able to use your power effectively is the center of athletics.

was my first assumption, but Throw wouldn't also include Bows and Slings, for example. I then thought to call a new skill "Primitive Weapons". But, someone suggested Athletics. Athletics was a skill already included so it was simpler to use it instead of creating a new skill and you could also wrap your head around it applying to things like throwing a rock or shooting a bow. Using Athletics only expands the description of a skill barely messing with RAW.

Right now it's one of several skills that get very little usage in my group (and note, I'm playing a Brawn 1 Jawa who occasionally uses grenades).

I say again, effectively utilizing a grenade is a combat skill more than an athletic skill.

Letting Athletics sub in with grenade tossing fits this narrative and that's what this game is all about.

Another point in using Athletics and Coordination is that you are essentially handing a combat skill to a number of Careers/Specs that were created and balanced around not having access to combat skills. Which is introducing unbalance into the game as well.

I think if the narration works go with it. It is what separates a narrative game from a strict tactical game or a board game.

Mechanic and Outlaw Tech do not have Ranged Light as a career skill, it's a non career skill and as such more expensive to purchase. It's supposed to be as those specs were balanced around not having combat skills, save Brawl in the case of Mechanic.

Mechanic and Outlaw Tech do not have Ranged Light as a career skill, it's a non career skill and as such more expensive to purchase. It's supposed to be as those specs were balanced around not having combat skills, save Brawl in the case of Mechanic.

You wrote "access". I respond they do indeed have "access". It may not be cheap, but then 25 extra exp isn't at all expensive. Also I argue that your notion they were "balanced around not having those skill" is mildly funny. Their Talent choices were built around not having "cheap" access, but there is nothing stopping any one from taking "out of class" skills, and nothing making it a poor choice (indeed since so much in FFG SW is based on combat utility, having a combat skill of at least 2 ranks is highly useful).

Indeed, one of my house rules if I ever run FFG SW is to drop the entire "out of class" skill costs nonsense entirely. I find it meaningless.