If I was having a player throw a rock, ball, or Frisbee in a game I would immediately think to use athletics. When you throw a grenade though the RAW is to use Ranged (light). I would never logically place throwing things under Ranged (light). Would it make more sense to make grenades an athletic roll not a ranged (light) roll?

I guess it depends the situation, I usually stay on range light for throws, as you try to to throw something at a distance.

I keep athletics roll for something more physical for things such as running, climbing, lifting etc.

Though, if you do not "aim", like throwing a grenade as far as you can in order to save your life, i'll use athletics.

And that for two reasons :

Because Ranged (light), assumes you try to aim even a little.

Because you put as much physical power in the throw as you can.

I think of the skills

Ranged-one hand (light)

Ranged- two hands (heavy)

Ranged- Really big (gunnery)

If it helps

I do not think your wrong that Athletics would cover throwing objects. I think they chose Ranged (Light) because it's already classified as a combat skill, so no special exceptions would have to be made to accommodate those outlying cases. There are already a few special cases where other skills are used as combat skills, but those instances are special. I would imagine throwing a grenade is going to be a lot more common.

I'm glad they kept it to Ranged Light for throwing grenades, because the more combat skills a game has the messier it is. I do agree that it's weird to use one skill for throwing and shooting, but it's simplier that way. Like Naglareph said above, I'd use Ranged Light for when you're trying to hit something and Athletics when you're just throwing it away. I'd even let Athletics be used to throw further than you can with Ranged Light, but accuracy would depend on number of successes and perhaps needing a Triumph to actually hit someone.

If I was having a player throw a rock, ball, or Frisbee in a game I would immediately think to use athletics. When you throw a grenade though the RAW is to use Ranged (light). I would never logically place throwing things under Ranged (light). Would it make more sense to make grenades an athletic roll not a ranged (light) roll?

No it wouldn't make more sense, the skills represent not just what you are doing but where you learn it. You learn to throw a ball playing sports and games, you learn to throw a grenade in boot camp, or growing up in a warzone and using them doesn't just encompass throwing them, it involves being trained in what they can do, when you should employ them, and where. The RAW are quite applicable.

If it's a weapon, like a grenade or a throwing knife, Ranged (light) is the natural choice for me. A large spear might work with Ranged (heavy). If it's a larger item, like a large rock or something else that takes both hands to throw, I'd probably go with Athletics.

Usually athletics is used when one is trying haul something off at a distance. Keep in mind that in competitions where distance matters, aim usually doesn't. Hammer throws, discus, shot put, javelin are all examples of athletic feats where aim is not important but distance is. On the other hand, football, baseball, cricket, require precise aim... in that case, I would keep those skills as "ranged light" --but if someone wants to simply go for distance, then athletics would be fine.

YES.

I already use Athletics for thrown items and archaic stuff like bows and slings. It makes so much more sense to me and my group. It avoids situations where your master blaster pistol PC is also automatically a master at throwing a rock, chucking a spear, or shooting a bow. It also avoids situations where that Ewok master hunter (bows, slings, javelins) is also a master blaster pistol ace even though he's never even touched one before.

I came up with some rules for a Huttball match, and I totally made players use Athletics for trying to throw the ball, with the difficulty being related to the range they were trying to throw it. It made sense and worked well.

Earlier today I was listening to a recent episode of Order 66, and they were talking about the bow weapon that shows up in Suns of Fortune, and how if there was a player who really wanted to become a dedicated archer, it was the perfect situation to come up with a custom ability. The RAW kept it simple for those who just wanted to dabble (and because it would have eaten up several valuable pages to describe the new combat skill).

So if you have a PC who wants to be tossing grenades around like it's their job, consider giving them a new ability they can work on for that specialty. If it's a less common thing, I think Ranged (Light) and Athletics are both fine choices for the checks.

I think it def is situational. If you want to throw an object as far as you can, I would say athletics. If you were trying to throw a dart at a target, I would say either ranged light, or possibly even coordination, depending on what it was specifically.

Some good ideas here. I like the person who stated to put bows, spear, javelins, grenades, all of the more physical weapons in Athletics. It does allow you to have a primitive NPC or PC who is good with a sling but not with a pistol. I know we have the "keep it simple club on board" with EotE it is made to be a keep it simple system, but this is just a little change. You could even use Athletics with agility for throws that need to be precise and brawn for big tosses that just needs to hit a space.

On boot camp, I have been to boot camp and have also a minor in physical education as part of my overall education degree. I would be able to speak from experience on both accounts. Throwing and shooting are whole body activities that uses the feet position, leg push, hip movement, shoulders, and finally the arm. Everything I learned in sports directly connected to tossing that grenade an making it drop right on the old rusted jeeps on the grenade training course. I can see the argument that it is part of the ranged light training but if a player said they wanted to use athletics instead I think I would allow it. I think Tom Brady could probably throw a grenade. Greg Maddox would wipe a booger on it, but then throw it like a madman.

You didn't learn about blast radius in gym class though. You didn't learn to toss it in a window before you clear a room with automatic weapon fire in gym class. You didn't learn that Russian made ones have an integrated method to be employed with trip wires in gym class. I say again, effectively utilizing a grenade is a combat skill more than an athletic skill.

Those of you who are using Athletics for throwin', are you also switching out Brawn with Agility for the throw? I could get behind it then.

If you really want to make it different, just make a Throw skill.

If you really want to make it different, just make a Throw skill.

That was my first assumption, but Throw wouldn't also include Bows and Slings, for example. I then thought to call a new skill "Primitive Weapons". But, someone suggested Athletics. Athletics was a skill already included so it was simpler to use it instead of creating a new skill and you could also wrap your head around it applying to things like throwing a rock or shooting a bow. Using Athletics only expands the description of a skill barely messing with RAW.

You didn't learn about blast radius in gym class though. You didn't learn to toss it in a window before you clear a room with automatic weapon fire in gym class. You didn't learn that Russian made ones have an integrated method to be employed with trip wires in gym class. I say again, effectively utilizing a grenade is a combat skill more than an athletic skill.

I completely get what you are saying here, but disagree from a game viewpoint. 99% of the time those weapon skills are being used for marksmanship, even if they can also be used for repairs or general knowledge. When I went to basics, it was the athletic people who could sling the grenades the best, not the marksmen. A class on what various grenades could do and their blast radius took about 30 minutes and didn't help anyone with accurately throwing them. The US Army specifially redesigned the pineapple grenade into something more similar to a baseball to make it easier to be thrown by Americans who played such an "athletic" sport.

I DO agree that if you start working on defusing a hand grenade, Athletics skilled shouldn't also be used the way the other weapon skills can be used to both shoot and repair weapons. Use a different skill such as Mechanics. Problem solved and it falls within RAW for weapon repair and maintenance (use the weapon skill OR Mechanics/Computer depending on the tech of the weapon).

Noting your quote above, where did the Ewok hunter with a high Ranged (Light) skill learn the blast radius on grenades from or how to shoot a blaster pistol like an expert even though he's never seen one? Athletics allows my Ewok to be able to toss rocks and shoot bows well without giving him some other abilities he shouldn't have. I'm fine with an Ewok being able to pick up a grenade and being a natural at tossing it the very first time due to his Athletics skill. That makes sense. I saw that with many people at Basics. I'm not ok with my Ewok hunter picking up a blaster for the first time and being better at shooting it then half of the blaster-toting PC party that just crashed on Endor.

ETA: Talents and Athletics as a primitive weapon skill:

You really don't even need to tweak Talents. Most of them don't say, "Ranged (Light) or Ranged (heavy) only" and can apply to any applicable attack such as using Athletics. Deadly Accuracy, Lethal Blows, True Aim, Crippling Blow, Soft Spot, Quick Strike, and Targeted Blow's wording would allow it as is. Sniper Attack states it applies to a "non-thrown ranged attack" so it could be used when shooting a Bow but not when throwing a rock or spear, which makes sense, RAW. With a quick glance, the only two that I could find specifically saying they are used with Ranged (X) skills are Natural Marksman and Point Blank. As a GM you could simply add, "Athletics" to the wording or leave it as is and say these 2 Talents can't be used tossing a rock or shooting a bow. No game changer either way.

So, at the most you add a sentence to the Athletics skill saying it also covers use of primitive weapons then add "Athletics" to Point Blank and Natural Marksman (if you wish).

ETA: Careers and Designing a Master Spear-Thrower/Slinger/Archer:

Looking over careers with Athletics as a career skill that have Talents applicable to using Athletics as a weapon skill:

Assassin: Easily used to make a crossbow sniper.

Survivalist: Master bow/sling/spear Hunter here.

Hired Gun: Don't like this one due to the name "Gun", but it could work especially if you add "Athletics" to Point Blank and Natural Marksman. I personally wouldn't and would tell my players it's only for a Hired GUN.

Sharpshooter: Bow master fits nicely.

Scout: Another option (instead of Survivalist) can fit here for a bow/spear/sling Hunter due to Athletics being a Scout bonus career.

This use of Athletics assumes that just throwing a grenade as far as you can encompasses how grenades are used. I think the range issue with grenades in the game is silly, not the skill. By using Athletics what is being said in game terms is that a general non-combat skill is more appropriate for generating Advantages and Triumphs which are used in determining Blast and other weapon effects, rather than a combat skill.

Some cited using Athletics for things like knives and javelins, but again, that's simply how far you can throw things. Just because you can throw a javelin further doesn't mean you have a clue where to hit a specific target in order to stop it or to have the better chance of inflicting a critical hit in game terms.

For me to think there would be an actual need for another skill for grenades, the skill itself would have to be completely broken and it isn't imo. Slicing off yet another weapon for use with a different skill creates complexity for the sake of complexity I think, since it isn't fixing anything broken.

Lets not forget that you could easily introduce setback dice, while players get used to the new weapon. So if someone picks up a bow,you could just throw in a few setbacks for a couple of combats.

I can sit in class and learn about blast radius, but it was years of throwing a baseball that let me hit the target. I basic you spent days practicing shooting and about a half day tossing a grenade. My years of sports beats half a day of grenade practice. I'm not saying you can't use Range (Light) to reflect your training, but Athletics could be an option if the narrative works for it.

I would use athletics skill with agility if the situation called for it. Tossing a dart would fall in that category. I would use Athletics with intelligence for recall something about the rules, recalling a statistic, or may calling a good play as a coach. I've played too many good games with flexibility to say athletics is just brawn.

Would personally like to some finesse rules to let agility be used in melee and brawl and with Athletics brawn can have some effect on range. If I want to play a classic martial arts guy he is not a 5 brawn guy. Maybe even some brawl mixed with intelligence for pressure points. Okay now I'm just getting crazy!

Ranged (light) and Ranged (heavy) are very overpowered skills compared to the others and again half of the skills are barely used in the game. Maybe I have just been listening to skill monkey too much but I am starting to look for ways for all skills to have meaning.

In regards to using a grenade with athletics instead of ranged light, I would absolutely allow, but I would also almost certainly upgrade said check, to allow for a potential despair. Most of the time, if you are willing to allow a skill substitution, consider how the different approach might make everything much more likely to go horribly wrong, and upgrade a check if appropriate. Because athletics doesn't teach you about blast radius and fuse time, and other bits of operation, and would really only cover the throwing element, I'd at a minimum include a setback die, if not an upgrade for despair potential to account for it.

Usually athletics is used when one is trying haul something off at a distance. Keep in mind that in competitions where distance matters, aim usually doesn't. Hammer throws, discus, shot put, javelin are all examples of athletic feats where aim is not important but distance is. On the other hand, football, baseball, cricket, require precise aim... in that case, I would keep those skills as "ranged light" --but if someone wants to simply go for distance, then athletics would be fine.

So would a Caber Toss be Ranged (Heavy)?

/hurr /hurr /hurr

I'm OK with Ranged (Light) covering everything from a grenade to a thrown knife to a blaster pistol because I'm equally OK with Piloting (Planetary) covering everything from a Jawa Sandcrawler to an airspeeder to a walker.

> I can sit in class and learn about blast radius, but it was years of throwing a baseball that let me hit the target.

Boom, you are dead.

Some classes of grenades are specifically designed to throw fragments farther than you can throw the grenade.

If we wanted to be uber-realistic Ranged(Thrown) would be its own combat skill based off Brawn. But I would only have it apply to things like thrown spears, rocks, bolas, etc... and not grenades(how hard you toss the grenade doesn't have any effect on its damage, it does on a spear)

I think you could use both Ranged (Light) and Athletics for thrown objects ... but you could mix and match them depending on the situation:

Is he throwing from a fixed position where his ranged skill might come into play or is he surprising someone by jumping out from behind something or off a small building where his athletics skill might be more appropriate?

You could use his ranged skill strictly in some sort of fighting sequence, but athletics in other narrative parts of the adventure such as trying to toss a rope over a tree limb, or that ship part the mechanic needs from across the room (a fail might damage it, etc.).