Hey all I am fairly new to this game and so am still working out some lists. I was thinking about runnin:

Echo-ACD, Outmaneuver/Predator/Nothing 37/34

Soontir Fel-PTL 30

Vader-Swarm Tactics/Decoy 31

This would give me 98 or 95 points to bid for init. I would try to keep vader near enough to Echo to boost Echo to 9ps to shoot first as much as possible, while Fel does his thing. I think outmaneuver would help with 3po, but I like predator better overall. I like decoy over swarm because it lets me be further away, and Vaders attack is not such a big deal to delay to ps6.

Not sure if it will work and I wanted to get some feedback before buying a bunch of ships I might not want. Thanks!

Outmaneuver is likely better on Echo. It increases the possible spread between damage dealt and total damage that can be evaded (and leaving a few Rebel ships totally defenseless to boot). You can use Focus to help mitigate your attack dice, or give it FCS for target locks.

If you have the room then I'd give Vader an Engine Upgrade. It makes him an Arc Dodging King, ideally forcing your opponents to choose between shooting at a Phantom and Soontir Fel, assuming Fel didn't also arc dodge.

Outmaneuver is likely better on Echo. It increases the possible spread between damage dealt and total damage that can be evaded (and leaving a few Rebel ships totally defenseless to boot). You can use Focus to help mitigate your attack dice, or give it FCS for target locks.

If you have the room then I'd give Vader an Engine Upgrade. It makes him an Arc Dodging King, ideally forcing your opponents to choose between shooting at a Phantom and Soontir Fel, assuming Fel didn't also arc dodge.

Well, engine upgrade only comes with the falcon and I am imperial all the way so I don't really like the idea of paying $20-30+ for one card. Also I think Vader is my most defensive ship, if they shoot anyone I kinda want it to be Vader. I am somewhat expecting Fel and Echo to act like Biggs though.

I see your point on outmaneuver, and I do like shutting off 3po on 1def ships.

Well, engine upgrade only comes with the falcon and I am imperial all the way so I don't really like the idea of paying $20-30+ for one card.

If you're playing casually, you can proxy. No one will care, it's casual and fun.

If you're playing in a sanctioned tournament, you can offer to buy an excess copy of someone else's Engine Upgrade for a $1 or so...

Outmaneuver is likely better on Echo. It increases the possible spread between damage dealt and total damage that can be evaded (and leaving a few Rebel ships totally defenseless to boot). You can use Focus to help mitigate your attack dice, or give it FCS for target locks.

If you have the room then I'd give Vader an Engine Upgrade. It makes him an Arc Dodging King, ideally forcing your opponents to choose between shooting at a Phantom and Soontir Fel, assuming Fel didn't also arc dodge.

Well, engine upgrade only comes with the falcon and I am imperial all the way so I don't really like the idea of paying $20-30+ for one card. Also I think Vader is my most defensive ship, if they shoot anyone I kinda want it to be Vader. I am somewhat expecting Fel and Echo to act like Biggs though.

I see your point on outmaneuver, and I do like shutting off 3po on 1def ships.

If it helps, you get two Engine Upgrade cards with the Falcon.

I've found Navigator to be AMAZING on Echo, if you have one. You can avoid collisions and avoid firing arcs like a pro. If you want to save a few points, I think Carnor Jax with Push the Limit is superior to Vader any day of the week.

If you're sticking with the current list, Outmaneuver works best for Echo. I don't think either Decoy or Swarm tactics works for Vader. As a hardcore Interceptor pilot, I've found that the squad will be broken up too often to make Range 1-2 effects worth much after the midgame. In their place, I recommend you run him bare with a Navigator on Echo or run Expose on Vader to take advantage of all the Arc Dodging you can accomplish and shore up the TIE/ad's awful attack value

Outmaneuver is likely better on Echo. It increases the possible spread between damage dealt and total damage that can be evaded (and leaving a few Rebel ships totally defenseless to boot). You can use Focus to help mitigate your attack dice, or give it FCS for target locks.

If you have the room then I'd give Vader an Engine Upgrade. It makes him an Arc Dodging King, ideally forcing your opponents to choose between shooting at a Phantom and Soontir Fel, assuming Fel didn't also arc dodge.

Well, engine upgrade only comes with the falcon and I am imperial all the way so I don't really like the idea of paying $20-30+ for one card. Also I think Vader is my most defensive ship, if they shoot anyone I kinda want it to be Vader. I am somewhat expecting Fel and Echo to act like Biggs though.

I see your point on outmaneuver, and I do like shutting off 3po on 1def ships.

If it helps, you get two Engine Upgrade cards with the Falcon.

I might be able to buy some from firends then, thanks for the info.

I've found Navigator to be AMAZING on Echo, if you have one. You can avoid collisions and avoid firing arcs like a pro. If you want to save a few points, I think Carnor Jax with Push the Limit is superior to Vader any day of the week.

If you're sticking with the current list, Outmaneuver works best for Echo. I don't think either Decoy or Swarm tactics works for Vader. As a hardcore Interceptor pilot, I've found that the squad will be broken up too often to make Range 1-2 effects worth much after the midgame. In their place, I recommend you run him bare with a Navigator on Echo or run Expose on Vader to take advantage of all the Arc Dodging you can accomplish and shore up the TIE/ad's awful attack value

My main reason for playing Vader was to trick 9ps onto echo for shooting and cloaking, if that does not work I dont really need Vader, and would save me buying the TIE/x1 (though Darth Vader is one of my fav characters)

My main reason for playing Vader was to trick 9ps onto echo for shooting and cloaking, if that does not work I dont really need Vader, and would save me buying the TIE/x1 (though Darth Vader is one of my fav characters)

In that case, I think you should save yourself $15 and 30 points by running Veteran Instincts on Echo. She'll shoot after the 9s, but there really aren't that many of them, and Echo is so maneuverable that you should be able to avoid their arcs (except that smuggler scum Han Solo). That also saves you from having to tether her to Vader. If you really love Vader, I recommend trying a Doomshuttle (Omicron Group Pilot Lambda shuttle with Darth Vader crew), which gives you a LOT more bang for your points than Vader flying an Advanced. It might not be the best idea to run that and Echo in the same squad, however

For this list, I would run Carnor Jax or an OGP with a Heavy Laser cannon, depending on whether you want to double down on maneuverability or if you would rather have an anvil for your roaming hammers.

Trying to keep Vader close to Echo may be a problem... Phantoms are loners.. they don't like being stuck to other ships that cant cloak and move like them.

VETERAN INSTINCTS. Seriously, Echo HAS to have Veteran Instincts, he absolutely needs to shoot first with ACD.

Unless you're using the Pilot slot of Echo for something, and maybe even if you are, you should run VI there instead of trying some other way to make him shoot earlier. I mean Swarm Tactics or Decoy on Vader really seems like a waste of 2 points when you could spend a single point and boost Echo from PS 6 to PS 8 AND get more freedom to maneuver while doing so later in the round. I mean PS 9,9,8 will be better than PS 9,9,6.

Looking at the initial list I'd be moving Predator to Vader and giving Echo VI.

Unless you're using the Pilot slot of Echo for something, and maybe even if you are, you should run VI there instead of trying some other way to make him shoot earlier. I mean Swarm Tactics or Decoy on Vader really seems like a waste of 2 points when you could spend a single point and boost Echo from PS 6 to PS 8 AND get more freedom to maneuver while doing so later in the round. I mean PS 9,9,8 will be better than PS 9,9,6.

Looking at the initial list I'd be moving Predator to Vader and giving Echo VI.

Exactly what i was trying to say lol.

VETERAN INSTINCTS. Seriously, Echo HAS to have Veteran Instincts, he absolutely needs to shoot first with ACD.

Vader + Decoy is how the OP is planning to boost Echo to PS9--which is better than PS6+VI. I think Echo + Outmaneuver/Predator, with Decoy on Vader, is at least an interesting plan for outmatching Falcons, and I don't know if it will work but I'd like to see someone try it.

Alternately, you can run Decoy on Echo, which makes her a little more flexible. It means you can't Outmaneuver with Echo, which is a shame, but it means you can borrow PS from any other nearby pilot, and you have 34 points to work with. That's Vader + Predator and a 2-point initiative bid, or Vader + Wingman with room for Ion Pulse Missiles or a 3-point modification on Fel, or (and I actually kind of like this one) Mauler + VI and Backstabber... lots of options.

But, using Decoy or swarm tactics limits Echos manueverability a LOT.

But, using Decoy or swarm tactics limits Echos manueverability a LOT.

"At range 1-2" is a tolerably long leash--and if she can maneuver so that she's outside everyone's firing arcs, it doesn't matter whether she's in range for Decoy.

But, using Decoy or swarm tactics limits Echos manueverability a LOT.

"At range 1-2" is a tolerably long leash--and if she can maneuver so that she's outside everyone's firing arcs, it doesn't matter whether she's in range for Decoy.

Actually, it's only 8 inches. And a lot of times you can't get out of everyone's arc.

Vader does very well with missiles because of the ability to target lock and focus on the same turn. He can usually fire at the first battle.

But, using Decoy or swarm tactics limits Echos manueverability a LOT.

"At range 1-2" is a tolerably long leash--and if she can maneuver so that she's outside everyone's firing arcs, it doesn't matter whether she's in range for Decoy.

Actually, it's only 8 inches. And a lot of times you can't get out of everyone's arc.

First, 8 inches is a lot (hur, hur), even on the X-wing tabletop. I wouldn't use Swarm Tactics, but I would use Decoy.

Second, you're saying that using the most maneuverable ship in the game, you won't be able to end the activation phase either at Range 1-2 of Vader or out of everyone's arc. (If the OP runs Decoy on Echo, she has two PS9 bubbles from which she can borrow.) It is something to consider, and it may turn out not to work, but it's actually more permissive than it looks on paper.

You really don't need Decoy in a PS8-9 only squad. For a point less you could go Veteran Instincts on Echo, which is worth its weight in gold.

What ships have you got? It's much easier to advise when we know the pool you have.

If you're looking for solid Imperial ships, the Firespray (base 33 points) is loved and for good reason, and Rexler Brath with the Heavy Laser Cannon (37 + 7) is no slouch if you can learn to fly him well.

Example Squad:
Soontir Fel (TIE interceptor) with Targeting Computer and Push the Limit

Echo with Veteran Instincts and Advanced Cloaking Device
Bounty Hunter (Firespray-31)

Expansionwise, this would require Slave I expansion (for the Firespray and Veteran Instincts), TIE Phantom expansion (Echo, Advanced Cloaking Device), TIE interceptor expansion (Soontir Fel) and Imperial Aces (Push the Limit, Targeting Computer.)

(VI and PTL are also in the Falcon and A-wing, respectively.)

All of those are Imperial expansions and full of other good stuff.

But, using Decoy or swarm tactics limits Echos manueverability a LOT.

"At range 1-2" is a tolerably long leash--and if she can maneuver so that she's outside everyone's firing arcs, it doesn't matter whether she's in range for Decoy.

Actually, it's only 8 inches. And a lot of times you can't get out of everyone's arc.

First, 8 inches is a lot (hur, hur), even on the X-wing tabletop. I wouldn't use Swarm Tactics, but I would use Decoy.

Second, you're saying that using the most maneuverable ship in the game, you won't be able to end the activation phase either at Range 1-2 of Vader or out of everyone's arc. (If the OP runs Decoy on Echo, she has two PS9 bubbles from which she can borrow.) It is something to consider, and it may turn out not to work, but it's actually more permissive than it looks on paper.

It's really not permissive actually, and 8 inches is not a lot.

Remember it's any part within that range. Although being on an R2 leash from Vader will severely hamper Echo's unpredictability and get him killed.

You really don't need Decoy in a PS8-9 only squad. For a point less you could go Veteran Instincts on Echo, which is worth its weight in gold.

IMO getting Echo to PS9 is a neat trick--because her pilot ability is better in some ways than Whisper's--and getting her to PS9 without the opportunity cost of filling her EPT would be even better.

It's really not permissive actually, and 8 inches is not a lot.

This will be my last post arguing with you about this, but Range 1-2 stretches almost halfway across the map. (The map is 900mm by 900mm, or 916 by 916 if you're in the US. Range 1-2 is a 200mm radius, adding 200mm to point on a 40mmx40mm base creates an irregular circle 440mm in diameter, and 440mm/916mm = 48%.)

Vader does very well with missiles because of the ability to target lock and focus on the same turn. He can usually fire at the first battle.

He does, but that also often leaves him with no tokens for the return fire, it cost me Vader once.

VETERAN INSTINCTS. Seriously, Echo HAS to have Veteran Instincts, he absolutely needs to shoot first with ACD.

Vader + Decoy is how the OP is planning to boost Echo to PS9--which is better than PS6+VI. I think Echo + Outmaneuver/Predator, with Decoy on Vader, is at least an interesting plan for outmatching Falcons, and I don't know if it will work but I'd like to see someone try it.

Not exactly.

Decoy/Swarm Tactic is how the OP planned to boost Echo's SHOOTING to PS 9 which, I'll grant you, is better than the PS 8 you get with Echo +VI. Echo is still maneuvering as a PS 6 instead of as a PS 9. Maybe one never faces any pilots in that PS 6-8 range where having VI can make a difference but when one does that difference can be huge.

Now getting a Phantom, not just Echo, Predator/Outmaneuver and shooting at PS 9 may be part of a plan for dealing with Han Solo but it has it's drawbacks. It still couldn't "one shot" the Falcon. Even if shooting against 6 defense dice it is still possible that Han could "one shot" a cloaked Phantom and "just getting hit" is still likely. The points you are spending to shoot at PS 9 will be overkill on many targets. Those reasons all ignore that a late moving Echo can often dodge arcs and avoid many of those issues against ships other than Han.

Alternately, you can run Decoy on Echo, which makes her a little more flexible. It means you can't Outmaneuver with Echo, which is a shame, but it means you can borrow PS from any other nearby pilot, and you have 34 points to work with. That's Vader + Predator and a 2-point initiative bid, or Vader + Wingman with room for Ion Pulse Missiles or a 3-point modification on Fel, or (and I actually kind of like this one) Mauler + VI and Backstabber... lots of options.

I like this, never thought of letting both Fel and Vader be targets for Decoy by putting it on Echo. Would outmaneuver be good on Vader since he will likely be the least overtly threatening target?

You really don't need Decoy in a PS8-9 only squad. For a point less you could go Veteran Instincts on Echo, which is worth its weight in gold.

What ships have you got? It's much easier to advise when we know the pool you have.

If you're looking for solid Imperial ships, the Firespray (base 33 points) is loved and for good reason, and Rexler Brath with the Heavy Laser Cannon (37 + 7) is no slouch if you can learn to fly him well.

Example Squad:

Soontir Fel (TIE interceptor) with Targeting Computer and Push the Limit

Echo with Veteran Instincts and Advanced Cloaking Device

Bounty Hunter (Firespray-31)

Expansionwise, this would require Slave I expansion (for the Firespray and Veteran Instincts), TIE Phantom expansion (Echo, Advanced Cloaking Device), TIE interceptor expansion (Soontir Fel) and Imperial Aces (Push the Limit, Targeting Computer.)

(VI and PTL are also in the Falcon and A-wing, respectively.)

All of those are Imperial expansions and full of other good stuff.

I currently have Imp Aces, TIE Defender, TIE Interceptor, TIE Phantom. I would like to avoid getting the firespray because its not an imperial ship, its a outlaw/bounty hunter ship (we dont need that scum!) This means I would like to avoid VI both because I kinda wanted to try some other crafty way to raise Echo's PS and because I don't want to get the firespray/falcon.

I would like to thank everyone for their advice so far, and I hope I don't seem too picky.