Once rebel aces hits - my new GO-TO squad will be this:

I am quaking in terror.

The GLORY of Munitions Failsafe is a whole great big four points, for this doom and death squadron of Rebel-kill'n Ka-BOOM-Ness.

I am quaking in terror.

I mean, obviously it's not a good list in general.

But, uh, what if you're running Han + 3x Talas? 4x Advanced are harder to kill off than a 7-TIE swarm, and those rockets are going to hurt--the mode of their damage is 14 points. Then all the Advanced have to do is avoid losing more than two ships, which won't be hard when they're fending off 2 Attack with 3 Agility.

I am quaking in terror.

I mean, obviously it's not a good list in general.

But, uh, what if you're running Han + 3x Talas? 4x Advanced are harder to kill off than a 7-TIE swarm, and those rockets are going to hurt--the mode of their damage is 14 points. Then all the Advanced have to do is avoid losing more than two ships, which won't be hard when they're fending off 2 Attack with 3 Agility.

Sure it is! The Advanced on it's own has a good dial, has great agility, and has shields. It's a fairly good ship. Now I've got 4 of them, which makes for a difficult squad to take down in a well balanced way - it is a good DEFENSIVE squad. Fair Hull/Shields combined with 3 Agility and a good dial.

The proton Rockets give this defensive squad an amazing alpha strike. Even if you take one down one of my ships, I still have 15 attack dice coming your way - all of which are likely going to be focussed. That means a dead B-Wing, or Y-Wing for sure, possibly both. And if all 4 of my ships survive your first attack? Game over.

The ONLY thing I have to do, is get within range 1. not too hard to do.

I am quaking in terror.

Totally misread this as Quacking!

I am quaking in terror.

I mean, obviously it's not a good list in general.

But, uh, what if you're running Han + 3x Talas? 4x Advanced are harder to kill off than a 7-TIE swarm, and those rockets are going to hurt--the mode of their damage is 14 points. Then all the Advanced have to do is avoid losing more than two ships, which won't be hard when they're fending off 2 Attack with 3 Agility.

Preying on the Falconeers... I like.

Its a good list. Seriously, I am not joking, its a good list. And when they update the TIE/Adv it will be a very good list. Possibly game breaking.

If I were you, I would seriously start practising with Advanced Ties. I am willing to bet they will come back with a vengeance in 2015.

I mean, obviously it's not a good list in general.

Sure it is!

No, it isn't.

The Advanced on it's own has a good dial...

No, it doesn't. It's the only ship in the game (other than the Corvette) that lacks both a 1-straight and a 1-turn, and that really makes it hard to knife-fight. It doesn't have any flexibility in its K-turn, and it doesn't have boost to help control its approach.

...has great agility, and has shields.

Those things are effectively modifiers to its offense (because you can't shoot if you're dead), but the Advanced still has weak offense on every round where it isn't attacking with Proton Rockets.

Now I've got 4 of them, which makes for a difficult squad to take down in a well balanced way - it is a good DEFENSIVE squad.

...in a game that can't be won on defense.

The proton Rockets give this defensive squad an amazing alpha strike.

Alpha strikes still don't win games. I think Proton Rockets on TIE Advanced is a great idea for all kinds of reasons, but it's hard to say whether it will make them competitive, and I don't think four Advanced will ever be the best way to use them.

It is harder to kill than 4 X wings and you can now pack a serious punch at close range to make up for some of the difference in damage. Of course, 4 X wings has special pilots. Can you trade out 2 Rockets for Vader with Swarm tactics? Just an idea. Definitely roll with the 2 Storm 2 Tempest at first to try it out.

It is harder to kill than 4 X wings and you can now pack a serious punch at close range to make up for some of the difference in damage. Of course, 4 X wings has special pilots. Can you trade out 2 Rockets for Vader with Swarm tactics? Just an idea. Definitely roll with the 2 Storm 2 Tempest at first to try it out.

It may be harder to kill, but I'll take something that is harderer to kill. So many better options. Here's hoping I see this list in a tournament.

I mean, obviously it's not a good list in general.

Sure it is!

No, it isn't.

Sure it is!

I would argue that if they don't, then you didn't strike hard enough. An alpha strike of 20 red dice can ABSOLUTELY win a game. And in record time.

Now to be fair, you do make some good points. This build has a huge weakness, and that is the difficulty in GETTING into range 1, without bumping so as to be free to use a focus action. I get that. And I appreciate the discussion. =)

I think that the key to pulling this off, will be to NOT fly in a tight formation. Spread your ships out about 2 1/2 shiplengths apart at the start of the game, and be able to vary your approach - so that when you jump in, you can do a 3 forward with one, a 2 forward with another, etc, and hopefully at least 2 will be in range 1.

The best part about this built... and what makes it GOOD... is the fun factor.

I don't think that list will do very well, but I think it will be underestimated. If you can get your ships into Range 1 to fire a barrage of 4 rockets, your opponent will struggle to recover.

You sir are a brave brave person. Medals and accommodations.

Sadly even this squad looks over costed. The tie advanced really needs more options or a 2 point cost reduction. Even a higher ps pilot generic would be great.

I think this list has great potential, but a terrible achilles heel: range 1.

The alpha strike is really impressive if you pull it off. The most important thing to remember about this alpha strike is the very favorable concentration of your dice in four attacks. A lot of lists have the potential to throw a lot of dice, such as TIE swarm, but those dice are spread over many attacks, and the enemy throws more defense dice each time you attack.

To make a comparison, a hypothetical 10-ship TIE swarm puts out 20 dice per turn, but over 10 attacks. Against a target with 2 evade dice that means 20 attack dice vs 20 defense dice. At range one that becomes 30 vs 20. But against the same target (at range 1), your attack would throw 20 dice against 8 defense dice, comparing very favorably with a swarm that costs 120 points, minimum.

So, four 5-dice attacks will be really potent... if you land range one.

If you mess up your first engagement and only get some of your Protons into range one, you're in trouble. And the middle-low PS in this list means that you lose the chance to re-position with barrel roll against high-PS lists, and they can roll or boost out of your range one arc.

I think this list could do some serious damage. I think it makes the advanced much more dangerous than it used to be. But it falters badly against maneuverable opponents. Looks fun, though.

So, four 5-dice attacks will be really potent... if you land range one.

This is a big part of what I was trying to say. 20 attack dice in a round is a seriously scary prospect, but 15 isn't so bad, and 10 isn't terribly out of the ordinary. Highly maneuverable ships can mess you up, as can any list that can take your punch and still punch back.

Or, to put it another way: if you lose one Storm Squadron Pilot on the way in, and then kill 46 points' worth of my list with your alpha strike but leave me with an undamaged Bounty Hunter + Recon Specialist and an Alpha Squadron Pilot, I would feel confident about winning with no further losses.

For many ships though, even getting 2 advanced into range 1 to launch will still be effective. Lets assume I get 2 advanced into range 1, while 2 are at range 2, (i mis-shot my approach a little). I have 10 dice to throw with only 2 defense rolls.... and then I have my regular attacks at range 2. I can still take out one ship this way, and possibly cripple a second. This way I still have 2 ships with their ordinance intact.

So, four 5-dice attacks will be really potent... if you land range one.

This is a big part of what I was trying to say. 20 attack dice in a round is a seriously scary prospect, but 15 isn't so bad, and 10 isn't terribly out of the ordinary. Highly maneuverable ships can mess you up, as can any list that can take your punch and still punch back.

Or, to put it another way: if you lose one Storm Squadron Pilot on the way in, and then kill 46 points' worth of my list with your alpha strike but leave me with an undamaged Bounty Hunter + Recon Specialist and an Alpha Squadron Pilot, I would feel confident about winning with no further losses.

It would be difficult for me to take out a bounty hunter with only the regular 2-dice attacks from the Advanced, but if I were really trying to win, I could just fly away and toss evade tokens on my ships, seriously hampering your ability to gain enough points for the win.

I personally wouldn't do that however, I'd focus on getting target locks, then saving them for range 1 focussed attacks

Not only do you need to get to range 1, but with your low PS overall, you need to go from out of range into range 1. Any range 2 or 3 shots beforehand could cost you.

Not to mention even if you do get to range 1, the other ships are range 1 as well, and probably have at least a couple ships shooting before you. So with their range 1 bonus as well the odds of you losing a ship aren't too remote.

TrolololololololololololololololololoLololololololololo

Can I tell you guys a secret?

When I made this topic - I had forgotten that Proton Rockets were range 1! ha ha ha! oh well now I'm stuck defending this squad's significant weakness!

As it's never going to be a great list, why not drop to 2 Storms and Vader and using the remaining points on Engine Upgrades and an Outmaneuver to get into position sooner?

It will also enhance your survivability chances.

I counter your 4 advanced w/proton rockets with 5 prototype awings with rockets. Now what?

Pros:

Same total hp, +2 extra attack dice, + 1 extra rocket and a better dial

Cons:

Slightly lower ps.

I don't think that list will do very well, but I think it will be underestimated. If you can get your ships into Range 1 to fire a barrage of 4 rockets, your opponent will struggle to recover.

But isn't the question of a list being underestimated counting on an opponent who is not giving the list some thought. If I saw this, and noticed the range on those weapons, I'd be looking to see how I could deprive you of that range 1 attack.

I like flying TIE bombers, so I deal with a lot of the mechanics of the alpha ordnance strike. It's a pain in the rear to do against an opponent who also understands those mechanics. It seems to me that for a list to be competitive, it needs to be more than a Predator list. (ie. something that requires an ignorant opponent.)

If you want to go that route I'd recommend:

4x A-wing; Green sqd pilot; PTL& proton rockets.

Far, FAR better dial plus PTL shenanigans.