My group has two questions about the overgrowth in Reclamtion.

In the first encounter of Reclamation the special rule states:

"The overgrowth in this quest is extremely dense and difficult to move through. It follows normal rules with the following exceptions:

Large monsters cannot move through overgrowth.

After a hero moves through overgrowth, he must test might or perception (his choice). If he fails, he is stunned.

The overgrowth cannot be removed."

The first question is in regards to the wording. It says in this quest. Reclamation is the quest, so does this rule apply to both encounters?

And if so the second question is: Can this make the game unvinnable for the heroes?

If the overlord places 2 monsters (or 1 large one) just on the other side of the overgrowth in front of the cave and the search token in there happens to be the Sun Standard there is no way for the heroes to pick it up unless they have abilities that allow them to loot from a distance or move through monsters, since the overgrowth can not be attacked through nor removed.

Generally, special rules are specific to an encounter and not a whole quest; in this specific example, it does specify "quest" in the description for Special Rules in Encounter 1 (while it makes no mention of special rules for Overgrowth in Encounter 2).

There is also no special rulings within the FAQ for this quest.

Having said all of the above, you will note that in Encounter 2, under Special Rules, it does state that Heroes follow the special rule from Encounter 1 for the Talisman of Protection (while not making the same claim for Overgrowth).

We always play that you cannot create situations that lead to a stalemate or unwinnable scenario for either side (to avoid situations like this). For all of the reasons stated above, I would rule that the Overgrowth in Encounter 2 DOES NOT follow the Special Rules from Encounter 1, thus allowing you to attack through it.

Granted, this whole situation will only occur if the random shuffle of search tokens happens to result in the unique search token being placed in the cave.

We're mostly wondering about this because this is the first time we've noticed the wording in this quest used. We checked out a few other special rules in other maps and they always refer to this map or this encounter (If they refer to it at all).

One of the hero players pointed it out because it would make using large creatures (like shadow dragons for example) much harder to use if they can't leave the cave.

I agree that it's probably meant to be "encounter" instead of "quest" and I would be inclined to play it that way myself. You could ask FFG for official confirmation through the Rules Questions link, if you wanted something solid.

Sorry to resurrect an old thread, but we're going to be playing reclamation this weekend and I'm curious if you ever got an official ruling. I don't have the rulebooks in front of me, so hopefully I'm not about to appear the dumbass with my questions.

I'm not sure based on your description, but it would you be able to place a large creature "just on the other side of the overgrowth in front of the cave", since that would have them starting partly in the connecting piece, which doesn't count as part of the cave? Also, the overgrowth blocks LOS, but are there abilities or attacks that don't require LOS to affect adjacent squares? I ask this because the rule for doors specifically states that squares on either side of a closed door are not considered adjacent, but the overgrowth rule doesn't say anything like that.

Also, since nothing starts inside the cave, the only way for a large monster to end up there is for the heroes to first kill one that started on the hidden path. So maybe it would make things more difficult for heroes, but knowing the scenario and the monsters chosen at the start would find a savvy party making sure to uncover the other three search tokens before killing any large monsters on the hidden path, and possibly trying to get a foothold in the cave first too.

Sorry to resurrect an old thread, but we're going to be playing reclamation this weekend and I'm curious if you ever got an official ruling. I don't have the rulebooks in front of me, so hopefully I'm not about to appear the dumbass with my questions.

I'm not sure based on your description, but it would you be able to place a large creature "just on the other side of the overgrowth in front of the cave", since that would have them starting partly in the connecting piece, which doesn't count as part of the cave? Also, the overgrowth blocks LOS, but are there abilities or attacks that don't require LOS to affect adjacent squares? I ask this because the rule for doors specifically states that squares on either side of a closed door are not considered adjacent, but the overgrowth rule doesn't say anything like that.

Also, since nothing starts inside the cave, the only way for a large monster to end up there is for the heroes to first kill one that started on the hidden path. So maybe it would make things more difficult for heroes, but knowing the scenario and the monsters chosen at the start would find a savvy party making sure to uncover the other three search tokens before killing any large monsters on the hidden path, and possibly trying to get a foothold in the cave first too.

Hello Philomorph, I've just sent an enquiry to FFG about this thread, I'll post the answer as soon as it is available.

In regards with your other question, Overgrowth ruling states that : "Even though adjacent spaces separated by overgrowth are still considered adjacent, figures cannot attack through overgrowth."

Yes, but it has also been ruled that things like blast can work through Overgrowth- you've just got to have a target on your side of the division.

Yes, but it has also been ruled that things like blast can work through Overgrowth- you've just got to have a target on your side of the division.

This is also my understanding of the quest/overgrowth rule.

You cannot perform an attack on a figure located on the other side of the overgrowth but a figure can be affected by the result of an attack. (For instance Blast, as you have already mentioned)

Yes, but it has also been ruled that things like blast can work through Overgrowth- you've just got to have a target on your side of the division.

This is also my understanding of the quest/overgrowth rule.

You cannot perform an attack on a figure located on the other side of the overgrowth but a figure can be affected by the result of an attack. (For instance Blast, as you have already mentioned)

This exact thing came up, since one of the heroes has a reanimate that he can make explode

However, the other question that came up is whether you can move through the overgrowth if both spaces on the other side of it are currently occupied by friendly figures.

Since moving through it can stun a hero, what happens if they move through it and into a space occupied by another hero, intending to move past them, but fail the roll and are stunned? They can't stop where the current heroes are, so we decided that if stunned they are stopped on the side they entered through and have to move through again next turn, rolling for another stun.

Also, just to make sure, monsters and familiars don't have to deal with the stun issue, right? Since they don't have a stat to roll against.

1) In this quest, monsters and familiars don't worry about the stun because the quest rules say "hero," and for quest rules, that only means "hero." However, if you're suggesting that monsters and familiars are immune to conditions in general because they don't have stats, absolutely incorrect. If if a monster or familiar were called to make a test, it would automatically fail.

2) Gaining the stun doesn't cause your figure to stop, so it does not affect whether or not you can move through with heroes on the other side. However, you cannot stop in that space, so you couldn't step through the overgrowth unless you had enough MP (or enough spaces left to move) to get you to an empty space. You cannot spend your last MP (or move your last space) into a space containing another figure ever, not just when stepping through overgrowth.

1) In this quest, monsters and familiars don't worry about the stun because the quest rules say "hero," and for quest rules, that only means "hero." However, if you're suggesting that monsters and familiars are immune to conditions in general because they don't have stats, absolutely incorrect. If if a monster or familiar were called to make a test, it would automatically fail.

2) Gaining the stun doesn't cause your figure to stop, so it does not affect whether or not you can move through with heroes on the other side. However, you cannot stop in that space, so you couldn't step through the overgrowth unless you had enough MP (or enough spaces left to move) to get you to an empty space. You cannot spend your last MP (or move your last space) into a space containing another figure ever, not just when stepping through overgrowth.

Yes right, of course a lack of stats doesn't make them immune to things in general. I wasn't thinking when I wrote it like that. Thanks for the reminder.

So gaining the stun token from a failed test here doesn't end the figures movement? I'm not sure I agree, though I'm not positive on it.

Here's my thought:

The quest rules state that the test is done after a hero moves through the overgrowth. To me that means as soon as they enter the space on the opposite side of the barrier, they roll the test. If they fail, they gain a stun card. When you have a stun card, the only action you can perform is to get rid of that card, so when you have the card, you can't perform a move action. Now here it's a little unclear to me because ... is there actually a difference between performing a move action which gives you MP, and spending MP to move? The main rule book seems to use the them interchangeably.

Also, since becoming immobilized while in the middle of moving immediately ends your movement and drains your MP to zero, it seems appropriate to me that becoming stunned would also end your movement, but maybe not drain your MP.

This way, if you are moving through the overgrowth with your first action, and you fail the test, you could interrupt your move action to take a second action, which would remove the stun card, then continue your movement action.

From a "logical" standpoint, it doesn't make sense to me that you could hack your way through some ultra-heavy brush, continue to move twenty feet past it into a clearing, and then suddenly become stunned, losing an action. The time "lost" is the time spent breaking through.

Of course the rules don't always match my personal logic, so I kind of wish they'd written it more like the pit trap, where it specifically affects movement points and the stun is only applied if there aren't enough remaining MP to lose. That might have eliminated some of the potential for confusion.

"End your move action" = MP pool drops to zero.

Stun limits the next action you perform- it does not stop you from completing an action already begun.

Performing a move action is just gaining MP up to your speed- it ends when you have spent all of those MP.

People generally assume that being stunned means the victim is completely unable to do anything for specific amount of time but in Descent, it's kind of the opposite. The ONLY thing you can't do while stunned is take actions. You can use fatigue to move, or use any MP remaining in the hero's pool. You can use any skill cards that don't require an action and hero abilities and heroic feats are still available to you. It might not seem very logical, but there are plenty of weird instances like this in descent. How about when an apothecary makes you an elixer, but then if he gets knocked down before you drink it, you can't use it because his class cards go down with him.

To answer OPs question in regards with the Overgrowth Special rule applied to both encounters or only Encounter 1, here is FFG's answer:

Hi Guillaume,