Turrets got you down? No problem.. My speculation is that we will see the Avenger one day.

Stats? I think we'll see 3 hull like the interceptor as well as the three attack dice guns. Now the trolling...if they give it the canon shields it'll be four shields. It's mentioned as being more maneuverable than the A-wing and Interceptor...is it possible we'll see a 4 die agility?

And last, but certainly not least: what better time and ship for the roll out of the tractor beam? So a system slot is in there as well as at least a missile.

And now that I've tossed that hand grenade, imma make some popcorn...lol

Disclaimer: I'd love to see this ship...but will we get it in all it's canon glory? Will the empire get an Avenger test pilot shenanigans card? I hope so!

I'd like to see this and an Assault gunboat. They'd be awesome

They just keep the TIE Advance around for Vader.

With no TIE Advance, princess Leia will end up having daddy issues.

Else she will just end up a scantily clad and running around with some thief with a fast ship, all while practicing 50 shades of grey type scenarios with some overweight loanshark.

Since TIE Fighter gave the TIE defender more powerful shields than the Avenger, I would imagine that a TIE avenger would have stats of 3/3/3/2.

As awesome as all of that would be, I have a hard time believing that any one ship will have a 4 stat in two areas.

One? Of course, we have that with the Phantom already. But I think 4 agility and 4 shields along with a maneuverability that is even comparable to an A-Wing and Interceptor, let alone better than, would be taking it too far.

As awesome as all of that would be, I have a hard time believing that any one ship will have a 4 stat in two areas.

One? Of course, we have that with the Phantom already. But I think 4 agility and 4 shields along with a maneuver dial that is even comparable to an A-Wing and Interceptor, let alone better than, would be taking it too far.

Maybe it would be the first 100-point ship

Turrets got you down? No problem.. My speculation is that we will see the Avenger one day.

I doubt we will.

Stats?

Here's where every proposal I've seen so far for a TIE Avenger runs off the rails. A ship with 3 Attack and 3 Agility--which it ought to have, by comparison with other ships in the game--is playing in the same space as the TIE Interceptor and TIE Defender. Differentiating it from both ships simultaneously is not a simple problem, and airy dismissals of "well, the dial will be different" are not enough.

...is it possible we'll see a 4 die agility?

Outside of an effect like the cloak action (which gives you 4 Agility, but isn't always on) or the Stealth Device modification (which potentially gives you 4 Agility, but only until you're hit), I don't think it's possible.

And last, but certainly not least: what better time and ship for the roll out of the tractor beam? So a system slot is in there as well as at least a missile.

This is another thing that gets thrown out a lot, but (a) the better time and ship would have been the Lambda, and (b) the major problem with a tractor beam is that thematically, what it does is take control away from the target. In a two-player game, that's not actually much fun for the player on the receiving end.

If I were putting one together, I'd actually put it in the cannon slot, and have it work a bit like the ion cannon: 3 dice, and if you hit, the target takes a tractor token and then all dice results are canceled. The tractor token then does something like make all maneuvers red. But that has a lot of holes, and wouldn't make a lot of people happy.

Disclaimer: I'd love to see this ship...but will we get it in all it's canon glory? Will the empire get an Avenger test pilot shenanigans card? I hope so!

Again, I doubt it. The Defender is really hard to work around, and probably rules out the possibility of seeing an Avenger down the line.

I like how every EU ship is "more AWESOMER THAN ANY AWESOME SHIP IN DAH MOOOOVIES EVAR!!!"

Theoretically the development process for the Imperial navy went TIE fighter >>>>TIE advanced x1>>x2>>x3>>>x bajillion>>>tie avenger>>>>tie interceptor>>>tie defender (more or less, this last one is kinda a different animal altogether)

How can the tie avenger be so drastically more manueverable than the interceptor etc? Cause some random source material decided it 15 years after return of the jedi.....sigh

After reading this: http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/TIE/ad_starfighter I believe the Defender succeeded the Avenger and would be better all around, therefore making the Avenger obsolete...

I see a couple of posts came along as I was typing stating similar ideas.

I mean, my point really stands on the fact that the Phantom does have 4 attack, but at the cost of 2 agility, 2 hull and 2 shields.

Realistically, do you think the Phantom deserves 2 agility? No. It would have 3. The TIE Bomber has 2 agility, and I don't believe for a second that it is as slow moving as a Bomber, but FFG did that for the sake of balance. Granted, they wanted the cloaking ability to also mean something more than just 1 more agility, but I do think that the major reason was because of the 4 attack.

The cost of having more dice than any other ship in the game is that, not only is it made of glass, but it's realistic to hit as well.

The cost of having more agility than any other ship is what? More shields, a system slot and a missile slot?

I would say that (a) you would have to pick one between the agility and shields and (b) it would be extremely expensive points-wise.

Since TIE Fighter gave the TIE defender more powerful shields than the Avenger, I would imagine that a TIE avenger would have stats of 3/3/3/2.

The FFG TIE/D is inferior to the nerfed TIE/D in shields (should be 4), capabilities (should have beam weapon), and maneuverability (A wing dial or better plus boost).

I would love to see the TIE Avenger model. There's no way it will be "cannon" though unless its high 30s at PS1.

Since TIE Fighter gave the TIE defender more powerful shields than the Avenger, I would imagine that a TIE avenger would have stats of 3/3/3/2.

Not really correct. The original PC TIE Defender had 200 SBD shields. It was later nerfed to 100SBD, same as the Avenger.

The FFG TIE/D is inferior to the nerfed TIE/D in shields (should be 4), capabilities (should have beam weapon), and maneuverability (A wing dial or better plus boost).

I would love to see the TIE Avenger model. There's no way it will be "cannon" though unless its high 30s at PS1.

Correct; ultimately the Avenger and the Defender were shielded the same...comparing stats in TIE Fighter and this game, the defender should have been a 4 shield ship.

Btw, I didn't mean to sound like I don't want to see the avenger at all. I just find it funny the way "source" material tends to handle those ships. Obviously I want them to make more ships (except probably the really REALLY ridiculous "TIES" that a google image search digs up....oh god). People put up all sorts of ridiculous dream stats for Defenders a year ago since you pretty much knew they would show up at some point. As long as the ship has a niche it occupies and is balanced (i'll let phantoms slide) i'm cool with it. Some people have suggested it maybe being a title to fix tie advanced from being useless, but others have insisted it needs to be it's own ship. Don't want to get that whole debate rolling again.

But FFG does a great job with subtlety in their games. I would say it's their specialty. Think about how similar xwing and z-95 manuever dials are. Say you want to k-turn around and then continue to furball it up or w/e. The z-95s have a subtle potential "drawback" in this regard that is probably one of the myriad of factors into their cheap cost, where if you do a 3 kurn, and then need to do a 2 bank so that you can do a green and change your arc facing, you might over shoot/crash into your target, where as the xwing could have more room to pull that off with a 4 ktrun and 1 bank. Pretty neat such small differences can give a ship an entirely different feel at times. So I do have faith that they could pull it off and give it a reason to exist without having to give it some monster stats. I mean, how cool would some imperial ship be that had an astromech slot? Though they may not do that because the never put rebel only on r2-d2 ahead of time and that would seem weird....

As awesome as all of that would be, I have a hard time believing that any one ship will have a 4 stat in two areas.

One? Of course, we have that with the Phantom already. But I think 4 agility and 4 shields along with a maneuverability that is even comparable to an A-Wing and Interceptor, let alone better than, would be taking it too far.

Ultimately I think it'll get 3 shields like the defender. Maybe the maneuver advantage isn't enough to warrant 4 agility...but what if that advantage was point costed so that you had to fly a 2 Avenger list relying on agility and flying ability. Fair trade?

Since TIE Fighter gave the TIE defender more powerful shields than the Avenger, I would imagine that a TIE avenger would have stats of 3/3/3/2.

Not really correct. The original PC TIE Defender had 200 SBD shields. It was later nerfed to 100SBD, same as the Avenger.

The FFG TIE/D is inferior to the nerfed TIE/D in shields (should be 4), capabilities (should have beam weapon), and maneuverability (A wing dial or better plus boost).

I would love to see the TIE Avenger model. There's no way it will be "cannon" though unless its high 30s at PS1.

Nerfed when/where? Was there a version of TIE Fighter after the Collector's CD-ROM edition?

I like how every EU ship is "more AWESOMER THAN ANY AWESOME SHIP IN DAH MOOOOVIES EVAR!!!"

Theoretically the development process for the Imperial navy went TIE fighter >>>>TIE advanced x1>>x2>>x3>>>x bajillion>>>tie avenger>>>>tie interceptor>>>tie defender (more or less, this last one is kinda a different animal altogether)

How can the tie avenger be so drastically more manueverable than the interceptor etc? Cause some random source material decided it 15 years after return of the jedi.....sigh

The Avenger was supposed to have come during/ after the interceptor. Due to the events portrayed mainly in TIE fighter the Defender supplanted the Avenger. It may not maneuver enough to justify 4D agility, but it's cannon stats set it up to be a great addition to the game.

Since TIE Fighter gave the TIE defender more powerful shields than the Avenger, I would imagine that a TIE avenger would have stats of 3/3/3/2.

Not really correct. The original PC TIE Defender had 200 SBD shields. It was later nerfed to 100SBD, same as the Avenger.

The FFG TIE/D is inferior to the nerfed TIE/D in shields (should be 4), capabilities (should have beam weapon), and maneuverability (A wing dial or better plus boost).

I would love to see the TIE Avenger model. There's no way it will be "cannon" though unless its high 30s at PS1.

Nerfed when/where? Was there a version of TIE Fighter after the Collector's CD-ROM edition?

Any players here that played TIE Fighter that feel the defender is nerfed in X-Wing?!

If you give it the same stats as the defender but change the dial up a bit would it not feel different enough? As said before a slight change in dial can complete change how it would work.

On a side note, I'm not sick of the Tie line. It was how the imperial fleet worked.

I was always under the impression the Avenger was the production version of the Advanced with kinks ironed out. I'm also under the impression the Defender is meant to be the pinnacle of the Imperial fighter design barring cloaking, with heavy firepower, being very agile and maneuverable and well shielded for its size. With this in mind, the Avenger shouldn't be better. It should have 3 attack but as far as the miniatures game goes, that's probably all that should be done realistically to the Advanced to make an Avenger with a dial on par with the Interceptor(perhaps dropping the speed 5 maneuvers[shield generator weight offset]).

X-Wing vs. TIE Fighter and X-Wing Alliance nerfed the Avenger and Defender as well as the Missile Boat. The updated version of TIE Fighter with the XvT graphics kept the stats the same. XvT didn't even have the Defender as they thought it would be too powerful for the player vs player part of the game, they also left the missile boat out of XvT for the same reason. Both came back in X-Wing Alliance, neutered shadows of their former selves.

The Avenger was primarily a dogfighter, it's role was to get in the fight and out perform any and everything on the field as a dogfighter. FFG could it 2 or 3 shields and then give it an ability, like the Phantom with cloak, that it can recover one shield like R2's ability to reflect that it had the fastest shield recharge of any starfighter in galaxy. If it got a 4 on anything I'd say only on agility and that's a big maybe and three's for the rest and either 2 or 3 for shields. Probably most likely 2 shields.

Since TIE Fighter gave the TIE defender more powerful shields than the Avenger, I would imagine that a TIE avenger would have stats of 3/3/3/2.

Not really correct. The original PC TIE Defender had 200 SBD shields. It was later nerfed to 100SBD, same as the Avenger.

The FFG TIE/D is inferior to the nerfed TIE/D in shields (should be 4), capabilities (should have beam weapon), and maneuverability (A wing dial or better plus boost).

I would love to see the TIE Avenger model. There's no way it will be "cannon" though unless its high 30s at PS1.

Nerfed when/where? Was there a version of TIE Fighter after the Collector's CD-ROM edition?

The stats for the Defender where changed in both X-Wing vs TIE Fighter and X-Wing: Allinace due to balance reasons (same goes for the Missile Boat; in XvT the balancing bat hit so hard the T/D wasn't even included as playable, it can only found only in code of the game)

EDIT: ninja'ed

EDIT2: thought I'm content with the Imperial fighter line-up as is (what we need is more support ships and crew which hopefully Wave 5 will provide) I could see a space for the Avenger at 3/3/2/2 (with a missile or torpedo slot and dial similar to the Advanced but with a green 3-band and red 1&2-turns)

X-Wing vs. TIE Fighter and X-Wing Alliance nerfed the Avenger and Defender as well as the Missile Boat. The updated version of TIE Fighter with the XvT graphics kept the stats the same. XvT didn't even have the Defender as they thought it would be too powerful for the player vs player part of the game, they also left the missile boat out of XvT for the same reason. Both came back in X-Wing Alliance, neutered shadows of their former selves.

The Avenger was primarily a dogfighter, it's role was to get in the fight and out perform any and everything on the field as a dogfighter. FFG could it 2 or 3 shields and then give it an ability, like the Phantom with cloak, that it can recover one shield like R2's ability to reflect that it had the fastest shield recharge of any starfighter in galaxy. If it got a 4 on anything I'd say only on agility and that's a big maybe and three's for the rest and either 2 or 3 for shields. Probably most likely 2 shields.

Excellent points..maybe a 3 agility + a free boost? 3 attack, 3 hull, 3 shields... Here again is maybe an opportunity for an empire only shield recharge modification card; say a unit that allows one shield for a green maneuver or something?

X-Wing vs. TIE Fighter and X-Wing Alliance nerfed the Avenger and Defender as well as the Missile Boat. The updated version of TIE Fighter with the XvT graphics kept the stats the same. XvT didn't even have the Defender as they thought it would be too powerful for the player vs player part of the game, they also left the missile boat out of XvT for the same reason. Both came back in X-Wing Alliance, neutered shadows of their former selves.

The Avenger was primarily a dogfighter, it's role was to get in the fight and out perform any and everything on the field as a dogfighter. FFG could it 2 or 3 shields and then give it an ability, like the Phantom with cloak, that it can recover one shield like R2's ability to reflect that it had the fastest shield recharge of any starfighter in galaxy. If it got a 4 on anything I'd say only on agility and that's a big maybe and three's for the rest and either 2 or 3 for shields. Probably most likely 2 shields.

That would be a cool Pilot ability in almost any ship. I would worry though as they would have to balance it out with a small amount of green which could hurt it in other places.

Here's my take on an Avenger:

Release an Imperial Prototypes pack. Include a pair of Avenger models, but count them as TIE Advanced x1s (the pilots are all TIE Advanced x1 pilots, and the ones from the TIE Advanced x1 Expansion can fly the Avenger models).

2/3/3/2 (unchanged)

Add a title card: TIE Avenger. Have it boost the attack and shields by 1 each, and give it the option to take torpedos and cannons. Make it cheaper than you might think, since the TAx1 is too expensive for what it does stock. The set should include 3 of these (one per ship in the set, plus 1 for a TIE Advanced x1 Expansion).

Include Tractor Beam as a cannon upgrade, and have it cause a stress, hit or miss, and on a hit have it reduce the distance the target moves on its next maneuver by 1, with the Ion-style "ignore all damage dice" effect at the end. It'd be range 1 only, and roll 3 dice.

Maybe add another title that reduces the cost of the TIE Advanced x1, similar to the Chardaan Refit. Call it the Strake Modification, and have it add the Boost action for -2 points (reference: http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/TIE_Advanced_x1_%28modified%29 ). Again, include 3 copies of this title.

Wow they made a special page for those Strakes lol. I had those on my TIE Advanced in SWG, they did nothing, was purely cosmetic. The space combat was the best part of that game and the only thing I miss about it.

That prototype pack could work, but the attack would have to be 3. The Avenger has four guns just like the Interceptor.