My suggestion is unless absolutely necessary should the dice be introduced. I think that might speed up gameplay a good bit. Now I have done things like this for other systems that aren't as narrative such as pathfinder. For example when the half Orc barbarian said. "we are going through that door." And it was a simple wooden door with a simple lock I didn't have a roll done cause a) I liked it and b) seemed like a bad time for a dice roll because it would slow the game down. That something you guys should try instead of relying on the dice to decide what to do do it and then if the gm thinks dice are necessary a roll should happen. An example of this was a combat from EotE with in a cantina. One player said I shoot the light fixtures to make it harder to see. I liked it and gave her a boost die for the thinking. She rolled a triumph on the shot and said. "Oo can it be I shot a chandelier like light fixture and it drops on the gammoreans?" Again I liked it so that what happened and the damage was equivalent to her weapon (plus successes) so instead of four gammoreans 3 got squished (based on successes again) and the other got hit by a lucky shot by the droid player who was simply trying to stop the gammorean from escaping. That my suggestion have the player rp a scene before the dice because sometimes they something so outside the box they deserve rewards for it not reliance on the dice. Another example of this was example I could use was an sr game, now this was a milk run because I had dicked with the characters so badly in two previous games I was feeling benevolent. So basically I said unless you fail a dice roll you pretty much do it. Now it was a simple extraction with entry and exit all set but the players were more aggressive then I thought so instead of going with the plan they matrix the extraction (complete with jumping into a helicopter to escape) and almost leveled the skyscraper. Again I simply liked it and let them run with it. The backlash is severe and still being felt.

Hopefully these can be shown to your gm and perhaps help you all have a better game experience in the future. Please note these are simply suggestions and interpretations of different rules and different systems.

Thanks for all the replies. I like the game system a lot but it feels like either the numbers on the dice are off or the starting attributes are off. Here is some more clarity, we were using the dice app sold by fantasy flight and typically rolled against 2 purple dice. An overwhelming majority of the time each purple die rolled a cancel while positive dice rolled much much more advantages than successes. This left us with the feeling that each purple die was an auto fail and each positive die was 1/3 chance of success meaning we would need much more positive dice than challenge dice.

Unfortunately the advantages could only be used mechanically so they didn't help advance the story. I rolled 6 advantages on a missed shot and asked if I hit the crates next to my target knocking them on him and was referred to the handy dandy chart in the book that let's me regain a strain, pass a boost die, blah blah blah.

I sat next to the GM and he looked to be reading the dice app properly. He wasn't counting threats as fails.

We were not using house rules as it's our first adventure with this system but we are already considering heavily house ruling the game now.

The game was run like a combat game but I did try to fore go the combat with social checks and that failed as well. And I agree failing checks doesn't break a narrative since great stories have great conflicts but if every action is failed you don't do anything and stories are made by doing things. Every clue turned into a dead end bc we failed every check to follow a clue till the GM just defaulted to you over hear where the hide out is.

It's possible our group couldn't advance the plot bc our advantages couldn't be used for anything more than mechanics, but I still feel the numbers on the dice are harder than needed. I'm the most interested in role play in my group and got the sense it wouldn't have been as bad if I was GMing but I would have been playing very rules light, ie. that was a great description of what you did, sounded like a huge hit, oh look at that it's a hit, don't look at his wounds, don't care, your laser bolt rips through his flesh and cremate his organs!

I'll try to keep an open mind since many of you are having good experiences.

Rebelarch, I'm sorry to hear that you had such a negative experience with Edge.

I will agree with the others, this appears to be WAAAAAAAY out of whack from my experience of the game.

There are many possible causes, and atrocious luck IS one of them, but that's highly unlikely to cause all of what you described, given the volume of dice you rolled. Something in the game rules is likely being misinterpreted, whether that be guidelines for determining circumstances, rules for dice pools, or dice results. We're all happy to help you figure out what that is, so you don't have a similar experience in the future.

To give you a frame of reference, most characters in my games have their "main" skill at PPA, with secondary skills at PAA. Characteristics range from 1 to 3, with the occasional 4 on a Wookiee, Trandoshan, or Bothan who specializes in a specific field. This does not mean they are always successful though, as one defining feature of this game (and most FFG RPGs) is that establishing good circumstances for a skill check is almost as important as your character's stats.

EDIT: Whoop, you ninja'ed me. The edge that positive dice have over negative is mostly in Advantages/Threats, rather than Success/Failure.

Unfortunately the advantages could only be used mechanically so they didn't help advance the story. I rolled 6 advantages on a missed shot and asked if I hit the crates next to my target knocking them on him and was referred to the handy dandy chart in the book that let's me regain a strain, pass a boost die, blah blah blah.

...

The game was run like a combat game but I did try to fore go the combat with social checks and that failed as well. And I agree failing checks doesn't break a narrative since great stories have great conflicts but if every action is failed you don't do anything and stories are made by doing things. Every clue turned into a dead end bc we failed every check to follow a clue till the GM just defaulted to you over hear where the hide out is.

It sounds like one problem is that your GM is as new to the system as you are. A lot of the narrative aspect of the game comes from thematic use of Advantages and Threat, both in and out of combat, so being restricted to the listed tables is not helping in that regard. It takes some time to become comfortable with the players' power to alter the environment the GM has established, especially if the GM has experience in other systems. I'd recommend talking about how much power players should have in that regard that as a group.

Here is some more clarity, we were using the dice app sold by fantasy flight and typically rolled against 2 purple dice. An overwhelming majority of the time each purple die rolled a cancel while positive dice rolled much much more advantages than successes. This left us with the feeling that each purple die was an auto fail and each positive die was 1/3 chance of success meaning we would need much more positive dice than challenge dice.

Maybe it's just me, but computerized "random" never feels quite right. I highly recommend using physical dice. Each player doesn't need their own set; the GM has to establish the pool anyway, so they can pass the required dice to the player. If you don't have Edge dice there are stickers you can print out to put on normal dice, or conversion charts.

Also, practice making your own "luck". Boost and Setback dice can come from just about anywhere, so try to introduce factors that would add these to the pool. Positioning, teamwork, background information; they all can make a difference. I rarely roll a check without at least one of these dice involved, and they can often make up half of the pool. This both mitigates bad luck and draws the players into the story, since they have to focus on what's going on to explain why they should get additional dice.

Thanks for all the replies. I like the game system a lot but it feels like either the numbers on the dice are off or the starting attributes are off. Here is some more clarity, we were using the dice app sold by fantasy flight and typically rolled against 2 purple dice. An overwhelming majority of the time each purple die rolled a cancel while positive dice rolled much much more advantages than successes. This left us with the feeling that each purple die was an auto fail and each positive die was 1/3 chance of success meaning we would need much more positive dice than challenge dice.

Unfortunately the advantages could only be used mechanically so they didn't help advance the story. I rolled 6 advantages on a missed shot and asked if I hit the crates next to my target knocking them on him and was referred to the handy dandy chart in the book that let's me regain a strain, pass a boost die, blah blah blah.

I sat next to the GM and he looked to be reading the dice app properly. He wasn't counting threats as fails.

We were not using house rules as it's our first adventure with this system but we are already considering heavily house ruling the game now.

The game was run like a combat game but I did try to fore go the combat with social checks and that failed as well. And I agree failing checks doesn't break a narrative since great stories have great conflicts but if every action is failed you don't do anything and stories are made by doing things. Every clue turned into a dead end bc we failed every check to follow a clue till the GM just defaulted to you over hear where the hide out is.

It's possible our group couldn't advance the plot bc our advantages couldn't be used for anything more than mechanics, but I still feel the numbers on the dice are harder than needed. I'm the most interested in role play in my group and got the sense it wouldn't have been as bad if I was GMing but I would have been playing very rules light, ie. that was a great description of what you did, sounded like a huge hit, oh look at that it's a hit, don't look at his wounds, don't care, your laser bolt rips through his flesh and cremate his organs!

I'll try to keep an open mind since many of you are having good experiences.

If making a skill check is mandatory to advance the plot, then that is bad GMing, and you experience is a classic example of why. Players will always fail at least once, and if that stops the plot, then the GM isnt doing his job. Also, it is supposed to be a narrative system, but your example of when you rolled 6 advantage makes it seem like you GM dosent want to do that. There are quite a few GMs here who would have let the crates fall on the dude and have it have an effect more than the strict reading of the chart in the book. I would have had him pinned under the boxes and have to use his next action to get out. That is alot more than the book, but it is 6 freaking advantage.

Are you actually seeing the dice that are getting input to the roll? Are you seeing the results of the roll after the roll?

I would like to know exactly what kind of rolls you are making. If you are rolling two green vs. two purple all the time you will fail nearly half the time but get advantage more then half the time. Use those to get boosts on other peoples rolls. Like what Joker Two said, the average character shoud be rolling three dice, generally a yellow and two greens at the least. Agains two purple, this should succeed around 2/3 of the time.

This game can be very annoying when the dice are cold and the characters are inexperienced. The rolls are pretty swingy and the GM needs to take that into account

We were not using house rules as it's our first adventure with this system but we are already considering heavily house ruling the game now.

That's probably not a good idea, since it still sounds like something is wrong with the way dice are being interpreted. I can see one player having a run of bad luck in a game, but all of you? That smells wrong.

This left us with the feeling that each purple die was an auto fail and each positive die was 1/3 chance of success meaning we would need much more positive dice than challenge dice.

Not true, just look at the faces. A green die has 4 faces with success symbols, 50% of the faces; a purple die has a failure symbol on 3 of 8 faces, or 37.5%. Just to make sure: you are taking the *net* total, right? So if you rolled 2 success and 1 failure, that's a net of 1 success...

Unfortunately the advantages could only be used mechanically so they didn't help advance the story. I rolled 6 advantages on a missed shot and asked if I hit the crates next to my target knocking them on him and was referred to the handy dandy chart in the book that let's me regain a strain, pass a boost die, blah blah blah.

Six advantages is a big deal and the GM sounds inexperienced (or stubborn). I'd have let Triumph-like narrative effects apply if they were all spent, but even mechanically: you could have passed one boost die to the next allied player (1 advantage), another boost die to any allied player (who could also be the same as the first one, making the next person's shot really count...2 advantage), and also make the target drop their weapon (3 advantage). So the narrative could be your shot missed, but went right by the target's ear, making him flinch in the wrong direction just perfect for your ally to get a good bead on him, and to boot the target freaked out from the close call and dropped his weapon.

So don't say "blah blah blah" Read through that mechanical list and provide a narrative for each.

Also, it doesn't sound like there was much dynamism in the combat: be sure to use maneuvers like Aim and Guarded Stance, take cover, etc. Spend Strain on extra Aim and other maneuvers, so that you'll be glad to get Advantages to recover it with.

Every clue turned into a dead end bc we failed every check to follow a clue till the GM just defaulted to you over hear where the hide out is.

At the risk of being offensive, this is poor GMing, and wouldn't work no matter what system you use. Your GM should read this:

http://thealexandrian.net/wordpress/1118/roleplaying-games/three-clue-rule

Basically, the game should never be derailed because the PCs failed to find clues.

One other thing (deserves its own post): you should all strongly consider running one of the Beginner box games. They are a bit of a railroad at first, but that's intentional so as to showcase the rules in a manageable way. They're still fun, and each has a free PDF continuation that is much more open. Sounds like you guys would really benefit from it.

One other thing (deserves its own post): you should all strongly consider running one of the Beginner box games. They are a bit of a railroad at first, but that's intentional so as to showcase the rules in a manageable way. They're still fun, and each has a free PDF continuation that is much more open. Sounds like you guys would really benefit from it.

Since I can only like a single post once. I will quote this for emphasis!

Rebelarch, do you have the Dice app or a set of the dice?

I'd really recommend putting together a dice pool (such as 2 purple, 2 green, 1 yellow, 1 blue, 1 black) and trying some example rolls.

If you're using the dice app then reading the results of the dice is taken out of your hands so it should be pretty clear that successes do happen

Rebelarch, do you have the Dice app or a set of the dice?

I'd really recommend putting together a dice pool (such as 2 purple, 2 green, 1 yellow, 1 blue, 1 black) and trying some example rolls.

If you're using the dice app then reading the results of the dice is taken out of your hands so it should be pretty clear that successes do happen

As long as the app is up to date. Older versions do not auto-cancel the results.

Statistics are funny and although statistically the OP shouldn't have experienced what he described it is remotely possible, just very very unlikely.

I just did a quick 20 rolls of YGG vs PP on the FFG Dice App on my iPhone and got 16 Successes. Something is definitely off.

I would suggest all of you, especially the GM, listen to Skill Monkey's podcasts here:

http://www.madadventurers.com/category/field-recordings/skill-monkey/

They are very good at providing examples of how to use skills and handle results. Best to hear them in order so start them from Page 3 to page 1.

and take a look at this PDF put together by torquemadaza:
https://www.dropbox.com/s/mgmmcrkba4mi9nw/Basics.pdf

This is a clear overview of how to read the dice.

Thanks for the podcast.

Sounds like one serious bout of REALLY, really bad GMing. It happens to the most, if not all, of us. Even the best GMs have their off night, but it's very unfortunate that it happened the night you all tried out this fantastic system.

Please have your GM listen to the Order 66 podcast (not even gonna joke about "never listening," because end he sounds like he really needs it!!) and also the Potelbat YALP episodes from Age of Rebellion beginner game for examples of live play. I would also suggest he re-read the "Game Master" and "Conflict and Combat" chapters in the CRB.

Quoting from the Actions section of Conflict and Combat, under "Resolve Advantage and Triumph" here:

Keep in mind, these [table results for how to spend Advantage and Triumph] are not intended to be the only options available. As always, players and GMs may invent other ways to spend Advantage and Triumph depending on the specific circumstances of the encounter, and any option that the players and GM agree upon can be viable.

Even with only a bunch of Advantage on dice rolls, narrative stuff can and should be happening. And just because you FAIL doesn't mean you don't DO something. Fail + Advantage means that, "when you did the thing you did, it didn't work out the way you wanted to, but it's actually okay...possibly even better this way."

Perhaps your GM just wasn't ready. In any case, it does sound like you guys could benefit from a Beginner Game to kind of ease you into the rules and to re-train your GM on how to better run and introduce a new RPG.

Thanks for the podcast.

No problem, I found them really helpful if not a little bit silly . Make sure your GM listens to them too.

Weird. I too tried rolling GGY-PP 20 times, except my results were a little different than furiousgreg's. I didn't get one success until my fifth roll. By my twentieth roll I was batting just under fifty percent. I tried another ten rolls and my success rate started to rise over 50 percent. Mind 20 rolls of the dice isn't nearly sufficient to create a reliable s tatistic.

Curious I tried GGY-P. Although by the fifth roll I had only gotten one success by the twentieth I had over a 75 percent success rate.

So lesson learned. A good difficulty level for players with starting characters would probably be 1 purple while a more difficult boss or skill check should incur 2 purple to their dice roll.

I'm only concerned with this because I'm starting a campaign in the fall. For now I'm trying to get my head around challenge difficulty and other nuances of the rules.

Yeah, really check out what you can do with advantages. Case in point, the thing you mentioned with the crates? That *IS* in fact listed in the table for things you can do with advantages. Check it out, you can spend 3 advantage to do something integral to the situation, such as shooting the controls to a blast door; knocking over some crates would *DEFINITELY* count there. Also, under each skill they give other examples of what to do with advantage, threat, Triumphs, Despairs, and even extra successes or failures sometimes; for instance, extra successes on Stealth checks can be used to give others bonuses on their Stealth checks (can't remember right now if it gives boost dice, or counts as Assisting, or what right now). Plus, don't forget, you can use an Assist maneuver to grant an ally aid on pretty much anything that makes sense to (even during combat), and other maneuvers help too, such as taking cover, aiming, defensive stance, etc. And finally, don't think that just because it's giving a mechanical effect that it can't be narrative as well. For instance, our last session one of the players made a Perception check to spot a wild animal, and got a Triumph. So I said that he not only spotted it, he also spotted a weak point on it, and gave him a boost die on all attacks against it for the combat. That was both narrative *AND* mechanical, so, don't feel like the mechanics work outside of the narrative.

Define one trick pony, My character is about 90% politico, 10% Quartermaster - so while they're more or less the same thing, she doesn't really count. However we've got gunmen pilots, mercenary medics, and everything seems to run smoothly for them. So I'm going to have to say "You're doing something wrong".

Hmmm well this just occurred with me as I am using an Ipad mini version of the app. When I just dropped my Ipad to start typing it bounced into a controller and rolled the dice. So this is something to consider is you can turn that feature on and off (if the device is shook or thinks it is shook it will roll the dice) That could change results between what you did and showing what you did. So I am going to do 10 rolls with the app using 2 green a yellow a blue 2 purple and a black.

1: 4 successes 1 failure 4 advantage 3 threat = 3 successes and 1 advantage

2: 2 successes 2 failure 4 advantage and 2 threat = 2 advantage

3: 1 success 1 failure 3 advantage and 2 threat = 1 advantage

4: 3 successes 3 threat = 3 successes and 3 threat

5: 2 successes 3 failure 4 advantage and one threat = 1 failure and 4 advantage

6: 3 successes 2 failure 3 advantage 3 threat = 1 success

7: 2 successes 2 failure 3 advantage 1 threat = 2 advantage

8: 3 successes 2 failure 1 triumph 1 advantage 2 threat = 2 successes (including the one you count from triumph), triumph, and 1 threat

9: 4 successes 1 threat = 4 successes and 1 threat

10: 2 successes, 1 triumph, 1 advantage 3 threat = 3 successes (including the one you count for triumph), triumph and 2 threat

So with the exception of 2,3,5, and 7 (and even then not that bad) I don't see the app being that bad. Though admittedly this was an odd die rolling situation and the dice will morph as situations dictate. So to adequately predict what will happen when is anyone's guess. Anyway as I said hopefully we have helped you find a way to help the GM with the game. I think the suggestions of the beginner game is a great idea. It really eases you into the pool and then the add ons sort of let you go swim in it as you see fit so to speak. Also you should look at those pregens for the purpose of getting an idea of what characters in EotE look like as they are good baseline characters. Good luck.

Unfortunately the advantages could only be used mechanically so they didn't help advance the story. I rolled 6 advantages on a missed shot and asked if I hit the crates next to my target knocking them on him and was referred to the handy dandy chart in the book that let's me regain a strain, pass a boost die, blah blah blah.

Bleh! There's your problem! Banish the book! Dont be constrained by why the book says can happen - if I were GMing, and you rolled that many advantages (even though you missed), I would have knocked the stack of crates over, the crates would have had booze in them (which is now spilling all over the floor) and a stray shot sets it on fire, giving your whole party cover because the bad guys cant see through the flames.

Or, I would have turned to you and gone "6 Advantage, huh? So, tell me how awesome you are!" and let you go nuts.

Every clue turned into a dead end bc we failed every check to follow a clue till the GM just defaulted to you over hear where the hide out is.

Bleh! If the GM bottlenecks his game like that, that's bad GMing. If the players need to get past that locked door to continue the plot, then there should be no roll involved (or if you do roll, it's to see how fast you unlock the door or if you trip an alarm in the control center or somesuch).

(or if you do roll, it's to see how fast you unlock the door or if you trip an alarm in the control center or somesuch).

I saw a similar suggestion in, IRRC, the AoR Beta. The idea was as follows: the fight your group is involved in, or perhaps about to get involved in, is a foregone conclusion in the players' favor. Have each player roll a normal skill check; uncanceled Failures or Threat could mean PC wounds or that certain group resources are used up. Likewise, when opening a locked door needs to be a foregone conclusion, have the dice pool tell the story of how it went.

I'd say your GM was doing something very wrong.
The bad guys were way out of your league, your skills weren't high enough for what you were being asked to do, etc... When you roll dice, it's the negative dice (purple/red/black) that cause failures. It's impossible to fail if you're not being opposed, the worst you can do is do nothing. So when I say your GM was in the wrong, they were implementing too many negative dice on yous. Just a note: there are no levels in this game, but a fresh, outta the box, party shouldn't be trying to over take the death star.

The dice, if they do nothing else, provide multiple elements to the "story". You could all fail and still have great things happen via advantages. I leave the effects of advantage/disadvantage to the party member that rolled them.

Are you anywhere near San Antonio? If so I'd be more then happy to run a demo of the game for yous. See if it comes out with the same results.

I had a really fun session with the gf. I gave out much more blue and black dice and didn't describe things as failures or misses but as an action that progresses the scene. Some fun ones she got a triumph to punch me with 2 threats so she knocked me out but I fell on her pinning her down. I scored a few advantages with my blaster and forced her back out of engagement range so she attempted a light saber throw but it stuck in the ceiling above me. She tried to jump kick me and missed but score some nice advantages so I jumped up to dodge her and went right into the light saber.

It's fun in the right hands, but seems like it can be really bad with the wrong GM. If you have a GM that favors mechanics or sees their sessions as challenges to be overcome the system can fall apart.

I'd say your GM was doing something very wrong.

The bad guys were way out of your league, your skills weren't high enough for what you were being asked to do, etc... When you roll dice, it's the negative dice (purple/red/black) that cause failures. It's impossible to fail if you're not being opposed, the worst you can do is do nothing. So when I say your GM was in the wrong, they were implementing too many negative dice on yous. Just a note: there are no levels in this game, but a fresh, outta the box, party shouldn't be trying to over take the death star.

The dice, if they do nothing else, provide multiple elements to the "story". You could all fail and still have great things happen via advantages. I leave the effects of advantage/disadvantage to the party member that rolled them.

Are you anywhere near San Antonio? If so I'd be more then happy to run a demo of the game for yous. See if it comes out with the same results.

Thanks. I'm in FL by I'm on roll 20.

It's fun in the right hands, but seems like it can be really bad with the wrong GM. If you have a GM that favors mechanics or sees their sessions as challenges to be overcome the system can fall apart.

Glad to hear you had fun with it!

Edge has relatively little structure, so the GM and players have more freedom; but that also means there's less support. Sounds like you're a lot more comfortable with the minimal rules than your GM is. Maybe ask if you can GM for a session or two, and see how it goes.

As many others have said, the chances of so many failed rolls are very slim. It suggests either a misreading of the results or the app you're using isn't as random as it should be.

I don't know if any of your group have a Windows phone but there is a very, very nice EotE dice roller app in the store for it. Very easy to use and very easy to read the results. Perhaps it is worth trying that?

Unfortunately the advantages could only be used mechanically so they didn't help advance the story. I rolled 6 advantages on a missed shot and asked if I hit the crates next to my target knocking them on him and was referred to the handy dandy chart in the book that let's me regain a strain, pass a boost die, blah blah blah.

No! Nooooooooooooo!

The Narrative aspect of the game is that Advantages make awesome stuff happen! Six advantages?!? That's the near equivalent f a Triumph. You can't just follow the rules to the dot--that's not how the game works. I you get a crap ton of advantages, and you've kept missing every shot, the GM should say, "Yeah, this is going pretty slow. I might as well let you knock some crate onto them." AT THE LEAST. On average, he should say, "Welp, you missed one shot with six advantages. You knock some crates on 'em."

What I'm getting at is, you can't follow the tables. You need to allow your Advantages, Triumphs, Threats, and Despairs to do interesting stuff to advance the story. Otherwise, you sit around without using advantages 'cause you ain't got no Strain to heal.