Throughout the text, Bastion Kain said stuff like "because the Specialty tree pages can be copied and you can find them freely on the interwebs" or "The Universal Specialty Trees are the Recruit and the new Force Emergent tree. both pretty cool but again, they are Specialty trees and free to copy. Get yours on-line" or "but once again, you can get these on line just like the Specialty trees."

If the book has enough value that one needs to find all the trees, classes and templates on line, then clearly it has enough value to for one to purchase.

Ahhh, so what you're saying is since I skimmed the whining about content in a book whose contents were announced a year in advance I missed details. My bad.

Hey, dont feel too bad - I was the one of us who was fool enough to actually read the thing. . . . (:

I did skim......I share your lamentations......

As for the complaints of breaking the book up into three - thank god you people aren’t playing GURPS or something. You want multiple redundant rule books? Oi vay!

Besides, didn’t D&D basically break things up too? Players Guide, GM Guide and Main Rules - more or less the same thing. And The HERO system did too, two really large books for game engine and for characters. So yeah, what FFG is doing isn’t that outside the industry standard.

And anyway, if they did combine all three in one book, it would be 900 pages thick, weight 50 pounds and cost you 150 bucks.

Preaching to the choir sir. If they didn't include the core rules in AoR people would just ***** they're being crooked into buying EoE.

I don't object to the idea of three books. I object to the fact that they reprinted a bunch of stuff that didn't need to be reprinted. That reeks of unprofessionalism. At least the 3 D&D books all contain discrete information. There is still the weighted head mod that can't be applied to a single weapon per RAW (in either the red or white book lines).

Seriously?

No one thought to delete that bit of superfluousness? They could only come up with two more weapons that the rebels would use that outcasts wouldn't? The anti-tank capabilities are severely lacking. Instead of getting mods that reduced encumbrance (something of great interest to any soldier who's had to hump something over a mountain) we got ridiculous mods reprinted like the under barrel flame projector. That's a mod for a weird bounty hunter with a flair for the dramatic. Not a tool for a professional.

They concentrated on the fluff part and capitol ship combat areas and wrote individual scale off as good enough. That was weak. For $60 MSRP they could have done more. Heck, they even saved money with mediocre Chinese printing. It feels like too much of a cash grab, and I can understand why folks are irritated. Nerd Rage is going too far, but expressing distaste for a job at best adequately done is more than fair.

Since FFG has people with marketing degrees way smarter than I, they must have considered this already - but it seems, at least from my armchair quarterbacking, that two books for each release - a core book and the fluff book - would have worked better. That way one could buy the full 350 page EotE core book, get the game engine and the color, the stats, the classes and so on, and then just buy the stripped down AoR book with just the stats and color and no game engine (or visa versa).

I flipped a mental quarter a number of times as to whether I was going to bother with the AoR CRB since I had the Beta. I knew it was going to be the red headed stepchild of the 3 CRBs. In the end I went with a collector's mentality and bought it. Every time someone has asked in the forums though I've been honest and said, if you want it to have it, go for it, but you can get by just fine with the fan made resources and a much cheaper copy of the Beta book and online Beta test errata.

None of this was a state secret on FFG's part though, it's all been out there for anyone to read and be an informed consumer. If someone bought it and afterwards was all butt sore I have no sympathy.

Ref. to the second review - I disagree.

And agree - yes, for someone who has EtoE there is not too much new information. However the fact that most of the rules, skills and talents are reprinted is acutally - for my group - a big advantage. There are 5 players and me (a GM) in our group - and only one book to share. There is also someone during a session who wants to check something about the rules, the GM needs an ad-hoc NPC etc etc. And now, instead of buying exactly the same book again, we get AoR.

Just a different point of view.

Just to have a second Core rulebook?... ok.. not a bad argument.. I do think it's handy to have easier access to the information. it's a different, but quite a nice way to look at it.

I put aside a certain amount of money every month for FFG books, alcohol and strip clubs.

A girl needs her hobbies.

Preferably, all at the same time.

excellent life strategy.

You sound like my kind of lady.

"dammit Maelora, put your drink down, get your dice out of that strippers ass crack and roll for initiative"

So what makes me sad about this, the Force and Destiny book will probably be the same. What RPG or game in general needs 3 CORE Rulebooks?

The thing that seems to be forgotten a lot, is that each core book is a seperate self contained RPG. They are compatible, but all three are not needed.

Similar games from FFG are the dark heresy, rogue trader etc games. They are compatible, mostly, but seperate games in the same universe.

As for rpgs that require 3 core rule books, Dungeons and Dragons across its iterations, and ipso facto pathfinder.

Every palladium rpg has a core rule book, with mostly, the same rules.

FFG made a really smart business decision bybreleasing three rpgs that are rules wise identical, but different thematically. They are counting on fans to buy the books because they are star wars. Similar reason as to why we get books with a smattering of races, ships and gear, rather than anthologies for each thing. People will buy because there is something in each book people want.

While the powers that be probably like star wars a great deal, they are doing the rpg as a business, first and foremost.

If you don't like how it is done, don't buy the product. I'm not being snarky, just stating a viable strategy rather than complaining on an internet forum that the developers likely don't read.

Of course not supporting the rpg would possibly mean FFG loses the liscence, which wotc could buy again and shelves and/or doesnt support or intermittently supports it like the past.

it is my fear as well that Force And Destiny will be similar.

I didn't forget. My first review takes this point in to consideration.

The second review is the world where, despite being separate self contained RPGs they still coexist within the same continuum. Where we do not deny that they are designed to be not only compatible, but where one is the direct chronological continuation of the first.

When a book is identical rules wise but different thematically it should be called a Campaign Setting and NOT called a new game.

The defining characteristics that make one RPG different from another are first and foremost the core game rules and mechanics. With NO distinct or defining mechanical differences I think its just absurd to call AoR a 'different game' than EotE.

Counting on fans to buy a product simply because of its brand recognition does NOT sound like a smart business move.

this can often work for a while, but it's not how you build a lasting product line.

I will be very wary of purchasing any more star wars products from FFG. I likely will, but only when the content warrants it.

I don't complain on the forums to get the attention of the developers (would be nice though). I just want the other fans out there like myself to have more information to draw on when contemplating this game. and of course also to shove my opinions down everyone throats without mercy.... ;p

Attitudes like that--encouraging people not to buy their products because all of the new material can be pirated online--is what will cause FFG to shut down things like people's online spec trees, which are useful tools for people who bought the books.

I do not recommend or condone the illegal Piracy of copyrighted material.

The information that I suggested people should get on-line was the Specialization Trees, which FFG has expressly made Free and Legal to copy. If they weren't then FFG would have already shut down things like people's online spec trees (or at least tried). they are useful tools and I am happy they are out there.

I flipped a mental quarter a number of times as to whether I was going to bother with the AoR CRB since I had the Beta. I knew it was going to be the red headed stepchild of the 3 CRBs. In the end I went with a collector's mentality and bought it. Every time someone has asked in the forums though I've been honest and said, if you want it to have it, go for it, but you can get by just fine with the fan made resources and a much cheaper copy of the Beta book and online Beta test errata.

None of this was a state secret on FFG's part though, it's all been out there for anyone to read and be an informed consumer. If someone bought it and afterwards was all butt sore I have no sympathy.

I know it wasn't a state secret.

I admit I was holding out hope that there would be ... something... else? better? different? i don't know.

my butts only a little sore... despite my lengthy complaints.

I guess those lengthy complaints are just my attempt to help impress upon people the same point you yourself made.

That they can get by just fine with fan made resources.

Counting on fans to buy a product simply because of its brand recognition does NOT sound like a smart business move.

this can often work for a while, but it's not how you build a lasting product line.

You're joking on this point I assume? It's Star Wars. You could roll turds in sugar and sell them as donuts with Star Wars on the outside of the box........

The information that I suggested people should get on-line was the Specialization Trees, which FFG has expressly made Free and Legal to copy.

It says "Permission granted to photocopy for personal use only" and not "Just download this and use it instead of buying our book."

I do not recommend or condone the illegal Piracy of copyrighted material.

And yet all over the place, you were saying "Don't buy the book. Just get the material you want free off the internet". Spin that however you want, that is still advocating pirating the book.

You're joking on this point I assume? It's Star Wars. You could roll turds in sugar and sell them as donuts with Star Wars on the outside of the box........

Otherwise known as this:

Gotta be honest, I'm really impressed D that you even knew that existed.........a little concerned as well..........and completely speechless how a product development meeting could have gone so sideways to come up with that................

By the way, a rebuttal to your whole "no new material" opinion:

From page 374 onwards, talking about the planets, the canned game and so on - is all new material. Plus all the classes and skill trees and aliens (another 40-ish pages), and the section on how to run a rebellion campaign and compatibility with EotE (another 25 or so pages), plus the force (another 10-ish) - so at just a QUICK glance through the book, I found about 170 brand new to this edition pages - roughly 40% of the book (37.06 if you must nitpick).

So no, to say that they just did a CTR+H and replaced Outlaw with Rebel is blatantly nonsense.

Gotta be honest, I'm really impressed D that you even knew that existed.........a little concerned as well..........and completely speechless how a product development meeting could have gone so sideways to come up with that................

Would it bring shame upon my clan and my house to say that I actually. . . had one?

Eh - what can I say. The 90s was a different time. . . . (:

Not at all. I'll be honest you are clearly the Oracle of obscure Star Wars memorabilia in my eyes. A veritable High Father of left field product examples.....

So is this thread to try to change FFG's strategy? Should they put smaller books out for AoR, EotE, and FaD that only contain only the new material from their respective core books (ironically selling us that material yet again)?

Or is this just a place to gripe about their business model ... that they announced two years ago?

So is this thread to try to change FFG's strategy? Should they put smaller books out for AoR, EotE, and FaD that only contain only the new material from their respective core books (ironically selling us that material, yet again)?

Or is this just a place to gripe about their business model ... that they announced two years ago?

Dealer, I'd like to put 500 Quatloos on gripe please..............

So is this thread to try to change FFG's strategy? Should they put smaller books out for AoR, EotE, and FaD that only contain only the new material from their respective core books (ironically selling us that material, yet again)?

Or is this just a place to gripe about their business model ... that they announced two years ago?

Dealer, I'd like to put 500 Quatloos on gripe please..............

Quatloos?!?! Some tottyhead is mixing genres!

Someone please tell me that isn't a Jar-Jar sex toy that Desslok just posted...!

I'm actually afraid to ask what it is....!

I liked the picture of the little tank with the opaque dome he posted - I actually had one of those. But this... this scares me.

Someone please tell me that isn't a Jar-Jar sex toy that Desslok just posted...!

I'm actually afraid to ask what it is....!

I liked the picture of the little tank with the opaque dome he posted - I actually had one of those. But this... this scares me.

It's candy...............they thought it was a cool idea...............

Well, depends on if you consider french kissing a battery operated Jar-Jar lollypop as a sex toy. Some might claim that the innocence makes it worse. . . .

Well, depends on if you consider french kissing a battery operated Jar-Jar lollypop as a sex toy. Some might claim that the innocence makes it worse. . . .

OK. I give. It had batteries. WTF did it do?.................

Otherwise known as this: