I'm sick of thinking about Ancient One as a "he" or as a "she". I doubt the Ancient Ones themselves have any awareness of their gender, if they even have one. From now on, I'll be referring to all Ancient Ones as "it".

It's just common parlance. If you start referring to them as "it," your messages may become confusing. "It" is usually reserved for objects, items, and events; not deities.

"they" is commonly used for single living (or living-ish) entities of unknowable or unspecified gender, in British english - I believe many American english speakers would consider it odd to use for non-plural entities.

Although, in this case, I suspect some of them may just be plural entities.

Also, I think at least Yog-Sothoth is a boy. I mean, didn't he have the Dunwhich horror, his child, with a woman? That creepy Whately lady?

kroen said:

Are you aware that Lovecraft himself used 'gendered' pronouns in his writing? For instance, please refer to the final paragraph in the Call of Cthulhu .

Man, just when I thought the forum couldn't get any more idiotic...

Hi timf. Haven't seen you around before.

This came up in one of my AH games lately, when surprise was expressed at the idea that Shub-Niggurath is a 'she'.

We concluded that a new pronoun is required in order to denote Elder God status, and the pronoun should be "bleeeeeurrrggghhlllgh".

This leaves the end of TCoC looking like this:

"Cthulhu still lives, too, I suppose, again in that chasm of stone which has shielded bleeeeeurrrggghhlllgh since the sun was young. Bleeeeeurrrggghhlllgh accursed city is sunken once more, for the Vigilant sailed over the spot after the April storm; but bleeeeeurrrggghhlllgh ministers on earth still bellow and prance and slay around idol-capped monoliths in lonely places."

Still just as readable as any of HPL's poetry, in my view.

Hastur, Cthulhu, Glaaki, Tsathoggua, Yig, Ithaqua, Y'Golonac, Dagon, Nyarlathotep, Yog-Sothoth... those are all specifically referred to as "He" at some point in the source material.

Shub-Niggurath, Mother Hydra and I believe Yibb-Stll are all referred to as "She".

Abhoth and Ubbo-Sathla are both genderless, I think, as they reproduce asexually. I'm almost positive that Azathoth is referred to as a He, but I can't recall a specific passage. Nyarlathotep is definitely a He, but several of his forms are female, which can lead to confusion. The Black Goat is portrayed as both a "He" and as Shub-Niggurath, which means an argument could be made that Shubbie is hermaphroditic, though it's possible that The Black Goat is an avatar of Shub-Niggurath like The Bloated Woman is an avatar of Nyarlathotep, making the gender largely superficial. Shudde M'ell I have no idea... I actually haven't read The Burrowers Beneath (Shame on me, I know) but from concept alone I could see it going either way.

There are others, obviously, but that's all I feel like doing at the moment. A quick glance at where any given GOO is mentioned in the mythos should give you your answer as to what "it" is. Honestly, since the original works by Lovecraft himself presented each entity almost as a species unto itself (Which certain exceptions like Cthulhu) one could easily infer that most are genderless asexual entites, as gender serves no purpose for a being that never reproduces and is the sole member of its species. Others such as Shub-Niggurath and Yog-Sothoth are definitely capable of reproduction but have vague gender definitions.

Huh... I'm way more interested in this than I thought I was when I began this post.

The Message said:

Shudde-M'ell is definitely referred to as masculine in Brian Lumley's works, although other Great Old Ones are abstracted somewhat by him, such as Nyarlathotep is not so much an entity, but a power, a force, almost an elemental, the very stuff of which telepathy is made. The same with Azathoth, who is embodied as the power of nuclear radiation, and Shub-Niggurath, who is fertility.

Other Great Old Ones are also given a more racial placement in the universe, with Cthulhu having a brother who is almost identical except for his benevolence and his golden eyes, and Yog-Sothoth also is briefly mentioned as having a benevolent brother.

Having read his Titus Crow novels twice, I'm still not sure whether I like the take Brian Lumley has (which in turn was somewhat derived from Lin Carter's works, which elementalize the Cthulhu deities). I think some of them are great stories, but to each their own if they include the little details like that into their version of the Mythos.

I find it quite interesting that so many people have had so many different ideas, some converging some diverging, based all upon the same subject matter. Me personally I still don't recognize Tulzscha as a GOO, as The Festival (the original story in which it appeared) in no way indicates it to be a god of any kind. Despite that it seems to be the focus of the throng's worship, it is still only described as a sickly, greenish column of flame erupting from a subterranean place. And while it is described as emitting "only the clamminess of death and corruption", it seems to me nothing more than a religious focus, not a true God.

thorgrim said:

I always thought the elementalization (is that a real word?) was mainly August Derleth's idea. Granted, I haven't read much of either his or Carter's work, but I seem to have read that somewhere. As for Brian Lumley, I have only read Burrowers Beneath and The Transition of Titus Crow, but I don't like how organized the Great Old Ones are in those stories. For me, the Mythos entities shouldn't all work together and be a unified force.

Tibs said:

I was on the old forums before FFG updated all the boards and changed them around. I never re-registered for these forums because our gaming group shifted away from Arkham Horror for a while. I started to come back once I heard that Innsmouth will, indeed, happen. I remember you quite clearly, but it makes sense that you'd have no idea who I was.

timf said:

Which old forums? If it's been long enough then you may have skipped an entire forum. LOL

Tibs said:

That's more than possible. I didn't know there were more than two forums - this and the "old" forums. The last thing I clearly remember from the "old" forums was a discussion on "where has Magelith gone?" When the formus moved, Magelith dissapeared for a while, and (s)he was sorely missed (by me as well as many others). I'm glad to see (s)he posts to this incarnation as well.

timf said:

If you are talking about me I never left an Arkham Horror forum. I did just stop posting on a Warhammer Forum a few years back. I just lost interest in the game.

I am a he.

Indeed, I am talking about you. In my hazy memory, there was a time where you weren't posting on the AH boards, and people were looking for your input into things... and you weren't posting. There is a fairly good chance that I've confused you with somebody else - one of the other "regulars" that stopped posting.

timf said:

Probably Millmaster

I remember MillMaster. Yeah he up and just vanished. Soon after, MCFlainez vanished too. It was as if they were kidnapped in the night by sleepless horrors.

Yep! That's it. Millmaster. Sorry, my memory is spotty and I had just remembered it was an "M" name... got Millmaster confused with Magelith. Sorry. Anyway, back to the original point - I was on the old boards (with Millmaster, et all), then I disappeared, and have been lurking around these boards for a while now.

timf said:

I've been confused with worse.