Talking tactics

By Osoling, in X-Wing

Give your opponent a hard choice, and punish them for making the right one - for example, a Phantom with Rebel Captive. They can either shoot at the Phantom(preferably at range 2-3), or shoot at a TIE fighter at range 1. More often than not, they'll shoot the wrong target.

Cyberkaiju - I am going to borrow those two for an Episode of NOVA Squadron Radio, we are doing a series on tournament tactics right now.

I've been thinking Hammer and Anvil style deployments lately, and it brings up an interesting set of questions that I don't really have answers to.

1.) What if both players do it (either strong-side lined up against strong-side, or strong-side lined up against weak-side).

2.) What kinds of ships give you different options in these kinds of scenarios?

3.) How does low relative PS (your deployment is obvious to your opponent) compared to high relative PS (your deployment is unknown to your opponent) affect how the opponent can counter this strategy?

4.) How do you retain the ability to focus fire while denying it to your opponent?

http://www.starcitygames.com/magic/fundamentals/3692_Whos_The_Beatdown.html?mobile_site_continue=1

Sorry for double post, phone won't let me edit post well.

Good anvil ships might include lambda, or falcon, lots of hull/shields without sacrificing fire power.

Good hammers would be any fast, manuverable, hard hitters, like the phantom, or a Ewing.

Maintaining focus fire is all in the manuvers/blocking, and just takes practice flying this kind of list.

As far as deployment I find a low ps anvil with a high ps hammer to be really effective. Unaware opponents will see the anvil in formation, and may deploy to go after them, then you hammer sets up later.

Basics.

Know your ships. Not just the dial or upgrades. When you select a ship, say "I am deploying this ship because..." if it takes you more than a few seconds for at least 2 or 3 reasons, you have the wrong ship.

Fly your ships. A lot. And then fly them again.

Learn to judge distances.

Define a basic strategy...then pick the ships to fill it, not the other way around.

Have a backup plan. If your prized vessel is lost...what is your backup plan?

Expect bad luck to strike and plan how to recover from or survive it.

Expect to face the list that is the perfect counter to yours.

Remember nothing is absolute or guaranteed, including all advice here. :D

Oh and my rule #1 is have fun!

The rule of 11 goes beyond using missiles effectively.

Use it for maneuvers and board positing. For instance, if you are at range 3 during combat, you can k turn 4 the next round and not bump as range 2 is 5 ship distance.

Edited by Danath

Sun Tsu's basic concept is: Take a fight when you have the advantage.

Thus in SWX: Fight when numbers/attack dice rolled are to your advantage.

In its most basic sense, beginners to strategy can conceive of and aim to:

have all of their ships attacking every turn

start the first firing round preferably with all ships having an attack.

This can be described as Total Power: A vs B over C time, where A and B are the number of ships where the factors are only how well the controlling player plays and how maneuverable the ships are.

Going beyond basic though, if you can position yourself this turn where you have unimpeded shots from all of your ships on your primary target, you have the most effective fire. This can mean that the opponents ships are blocked so that they face different directions, or just firing on different ships. Even better is when one of their ships effectively has no shot.

If your next move results in one of their ships facing the wrong direction, then next turn the same thing, then effectively by movement you have cancelled a single ship.

Consider it instead as not A ships vs B ships for C # of turns,

but Tempo: A > B-1 over time C.

Edited by Blail Blerg

I have a series questions that I ask myself every match.

What is my squad good at? How can I best use that to exploit what my opponent's squad is bad at? Conversely, what is my squad bad at? How can I best protect myself from what my opponent will do to exploit my weakness?

Then it's a matter of trying to implement those overarching ideas on the game board by not flying my ships like a doofus.

Edited by overdesigned

Wear slave leia outfit to the match... Your opponent will probably just quit.

That may depend on the player and the opponent. I'm guessing (hoping?) there are a few X-Wing players who could wear such an outfit and turn their opponents to slobbering idiots. Probably a lot more where that could be considered distracting for completely different reasons.

Reduce the amount of red dice available for your opponent to throw as soon as possible. Don't spread your fire elsewhere if it could mean killing off that last hit point.

Green dice are overrated. A bad roll of red means you miss. A bad roll of green means your dead.

Four hit points on two ships has more staying power than four points on one ship.

Identify your opponent's center of gravity and get there the "fastest with the mostest."

Don't extract yourself from combat in the face of the enemy. When you are in the furball, you stay in the furball until death.

These are probably poor maxims in practice (I'm not that great of a player), but they are how I am trying to play.

Ummm... Don't do what this guy says.

Jk :)

My best advice is learn to fly what your flying.

I find just about every list has its own feel for it.

For example a Firespray piloted by Krassis alongside jonus will fly differently than Kath, shuttle and mini swarm

When I try something new in some cases I just bomb the first game due to bad set up, and misjudged piloting.

After a game I can see the path more clearly

If I can I'll sit down and try to come up with my best starting positions.

How do I want the asteroids and where do I want to be? Where do I want this fight to happen?

Practice what you like to fly. In some cases when you fly something different you may not do so well. Learn, practice, and try again

Just because you lost that first game or two does not make it a bad build, you just have to find its sweet spot.

The more options you give yourself from the start the better. I like to have a few different opening moves. Like football plays. That way depending on how my opponent sets up and moved I'm not limited to one specific opening maneuvers and can adapt easier to what he or she does.

Flanking is awesome when done right. I like to make it hard for my opponent by giving him or her a choice. If I can make their choice easier then I know their plan.

One example of this is one game I was flying against echo, shuttle and some ties.

I had Han, 2 z95, and an awing (I currently only have two z95)

The way I played that out what I made my opponent have a easier choice by using my z95s and awing to lure him to where I wanted him.

I flanked with Han.

Since I managed to get my z95 close enough but kept then retreating away from his main squad he kept trying to get a shot on them while Han managed to get behind his main force and phantom.

In this situation it was the fact that my z95 and awing where out of reach the first couple of turns where as the Falcon moved up the side of the board really fast and then the z95 were just a better target

Practice is key

Be flexible

Have a back up plan, your first plan may go to crap if your opponent throws a monkey wrench in there

Don't put all your eggs into one basket

Make your decisions easy and difficult for your opponent

Edited by Krynn007

Attacking the opponent's strategy will more often than not be more effective over attacking his army.

Familiarity. I could give you the strongest, most insanely broken piece of **** in the entire game, but if you don't know how to use it, it is completely useless to you. So make sure you fly something you are comfortable with, no point forcing yourself to use something that you are not comfortable using / do not know how to use properly

1) A position where you can take a bad shot but not be fired on is ALWAYS better than a position where you can take a good shot but be fired back upon (unless you are guaranteed t kill the enemy ship in question (e.g. by using Vader crew)).

2) Give your opponent difficult choices.

E.g. Don't place one ship in range 1 and all others in range2 (unless you want the ship in Range 1 to be shot at)

3) X-Wing is a a game of Focusing Fire. If you have one damaged ship, drop it back while all others move to range 1. Now you have created another difficult choice for your opponent - try to finish the damaged ship at range 2 or 3 or pick an easier but undamage target.

4) Know your squad's strength and run with it.

E.g. Don't let the opponent bait you to go into the asteroids if his squad is more maneuverable than your, and viec versa.

5) Try not to pin your squads success on a single ship (unless it is a named Falcon). You need to be able to win even after taking losses.

Edited by Veldrin

in building squads i try to use a range of different ship types. this gives u more options for movement dials and makes u less predictable at the same time. for example my fav squad for a long time used firespray, shuttle and 2x academy tie-fighters. Right now for rebels im running 2x B-Wings, and X-Wing and an Outer Rim Smuggler. I also look for squads that are unexpected in my meta - this also gives you an edge as ppl r not sure how to play against you. running 5x Gamma Squadron Bombers with seismic charges would be an example of this, although its counter my first suggestion here - the important thing is to be unpredictable.

Cyberkaiju - I am going to borrow those two for an Episode of NOVA Squadron Radio, we are doing a series on tournament tactics right now.

I look foward to the show!

I've been thinking Hammer and Anvil style deployments lately, and it brings up an interesting set of questions that I don't really have answers to.

1.) What if both players do it (either strong-side lined up against strong-side, or strong-side lined up against weak-side).

2.) What kinds of ships give you different options in these kinds of scenarios?

3.) How does low relative PS (your deployment is obvious to your opponent) compared to high relative PS (your deployment is unknown to your opponent) affect how the opponent can counter this strategy?

4.) How do you retain the ability to focus fire while denying it to your opponent?

As far as what if two hammer and anvil lists fight, it's all about figuring out who is the beatdown, a theory I learned form magic the gathering. http://www.starcitygames.com/magic/fundamentals/3692_Whos_The_Beatdown.html?mobile_site_continue=1

Thanks a lot for that link. Good game theory overall. I'm trying to put it in X-wing perspective, though. I'm just going to type some stuff out here, maybe it will make sense, maybe not. Would you say the Beatdown player is the player with the better jousting squad and the control player is the other squad? So, for example, two Hammer and Anvil squads line up against each other, strong side vs strong side, you look at the two squads. The squad with the better jousting ability is pretty happy, knowing that his or her individual parts are stronger at this type of thing and is content to let them and can probably win a Hammer vs. Hammer and Anvil vs. Anvil game.

The control player should have a deployment advantage, because all other things being equal, points not spent on jousting value are points spent on maneuverability and PS. So the control player has to figure out how to put some part of the beatdown squad out of the fight for a couple turns, using PS and maneuverability. This probably uses asteroid placement to try and set up a barrier that a split squad would have trouble with. This would be guesswork during deployment. If you think the other squad is beatdown to your control, you'd try and set up asteroids in a way that you could easily combine forces, but the opponent, with lesser maneuverability/PS couldn't.

I guess there's also other axes that you could look at, like jousting vs. dogfighting ability. If you have a bunch of high PS TIE fighters vs Rookie Pilots, you may well get busted up on a joust, but once formations break down, you have a big advantage in close with higher PS and a Barrel Roll. So you try and set up asteroids to break up the enemy formation and give your TIEs cover on the approach.

Am I making any sense?

My personal rule of thumb in any engagement: If I see my opponent clearly targeting one of my ships, I will plan my maneuvres in a way that is purposefully evasive, IMO it is better to have one ship lose a shot and force the opponent into suboptimal shots (or none at all) rather than have a damaged ship blown out of the sky after possibly landing a bit more damage onto the table.

When list building I try to ask myself three questions. 1 How am I going to deal with swarms, 2 How am I going to deal with big ships, 3 how am I going to deal with highly maneuverable ships. It's a little less fun cuz I like thematic at times too, but I don't like to be hosed either.

Cyberkaiju - I am going to borrow those two for an Episode of NOVA Squadron Radio, we are doing a series on tournament tactics right now.

I look foward to the show!

I've been thinking Hammer and Anvil style deployments lately, and it brings up an interesting set of questions that I don't really have answers to.

1.) What if both players do it (either strong-side lined up against strong-side, or strong-side lined up against weak-side).

2.) What kinds of ships give you different options in these kinds of scenarios?

3.) How does low relative PS (your deployment is obvious to your opponent) compared to high relative PS (your deployment is unknown to your opponent) affect how the opponent can counter this strategy?

4.) How do you retain the ability to focus fire while denying it to your opponent?

As far as what if two hammer and anvil lists fight, it's all about figuring out who is the beatdown, a theory I learned form magic the gathering. http://www.starcitygames.com/magic/fundamentals/3692_Whos_The_Beatdown.html?mobile_site_continue=1

Thanks a lot for that link. Good game theory overall. I'm trying to put it in X-wing perspective, though. I'm just going to type some stuff out here, maybe it will make sense, maybe not. Would you say the Beatdown player is the player with the better jousting squad and the control player is the other squad? So, for example, two Hammer and Anvil squads line up against each other, strong side vs strong side, you look at the two squads. The squad with the better jousting ability is pretty happy, knowing that his or her individual parts are stronger at this type of thing and is content to let them and can probably win a Hammer vs. Hammer and Anvil vs. Anvil game.

The control player should have a deployment advantage, because all other things being equal, points not spent on jousting value are points spent on maneuverability and PS. So the control player has to figure out how to put some part of the beatdown squad out of the fight for a couple turns, using PS and maneuverability. This probably uses asteroid placement to try and set up a barrier that a split squad would have trouble with. This would be guesswork during deployment. If you think the other squad is beatdown to your control, you'd try and set up asteroids in a way that you could easily combine forces, but the opponent, with lesser maneuverability/PS couldn't.

I guess there's also other axes that you could look at, like jousting vs. dogfighting ability. If you have a bunch of high PS TIE fighters vs Rookie Pilots, you may well get busted up on a joust, but once formations break down, you have a big advantage in close with higher PS and a Barrel Roll. So you try and set up asteroids to break up the enemy formation and give your TIEs cover on the approach.

Am I making any sense?

Sounds like you more or less got it!

Don't play the game play the player.

What I mean by this in an X-wing sense if your opponent has mentioned having troubles playing against say Soontir Fel then do your best to keep Soontir back and/or deploy Soontir off in a corner because your opponent will probably try to focus him first and let the rest of your ships get behind him

Also along those lines is many people expect you to try to shed stress ASAP, don't unless your ship is dependent on actions (like Vader/PTL interceptor) Sometimes having stress isn't that bad and you can forgo an action for a turn to line up a better shot and/or not get get shot at.

Run mono-ship type lists. You will learn the maneuver dial more easily and your skill with that ship will increase. Do this multiple times with the same ship then pick another ship and run a mono-ship list for that. Try to win, but don't worry if your mono-ship type build is not optimized to do so. The trick is learning how they fly in isolation.

This will help you with your combined squadron that you will be likely to be taking to tournaments. Perhaps not as much in the early or mid game, but it will help you become a MUCH better end-game pilot with these ships. It will also help you understand the limitations of your ships and find other ships that will cover for those weaknesses.

This is a funny game and there's a lot you can learn by looking at the card and available upgrades and by seeing other people's success/failures on the internet. But there is no substitute for actually flying these ships against an opponent who is trying to eliminate them.

Don't play the game play the player.

What I mean by this in an X-wing sense if your opponent has mentioned having troubles playing against say Soontir Fel then do your best to keep Soontir back and/or deploy Soontir off in a corner because your opponent will probably try to focus him first and let the rest of your ships get behind him

Also along those lines is many people expect you to try to shed stress ASAP, don't unless your ship is dependent on actions (like Vader/PTL interceptor) Sometimes having stress isn't that bad and you can forgo an action for a turn to line up a better shot and/or not get get shot at.

this is also an effective chess tactic. once u discover what ur opponent does do so well. or what weakness there squad has. attack that weakness or play that style against them. they will be more likely to make mistakes if theyr pressured to play a style they dont feel comfortable with.

Have fun.

Across the table your "enemy" won't know what hit him/her if you really just enjoy playing. Once you get hyper strategy goes to blank. Relax and fly and roll. So many on this thread have some great ideas, but the most important is to relax.

So again the best strategy is to have fun.

Don't play the game play the player.

What I mean by this in an X-wing sense if your opponent has mentioned having troubles playing against say Soontir Fel then do your best to keep Soontir back and/or deploy Soontir off in a corner because your opponent will probably try to focus him first and let the rest of your ships get behind him

Also along those lines is many people expect you to try to shed stress ASAP, don't unless your ship is dependent on actions (like Vader/PTL interceptor) Sometimes having stress isn't that bad and you can forgo an action for a turn to line up a better shot and/or not get get shot at.

this is also an effective chess tactic. once u discover what ur opponent does do so well. or what weakness there squad has. attack that weakness or play that style against them. they will be more likely to make mistakes if theyr pressured to play a style they dont feel comfortable with.

Originally it came to mind with Poker/Euchre(basically any card game) but you're right it works a lot. If someone wants to dance around either spread your ships out and have a wide arc coverage, or keep them tight but angle them outwards or a kill zone

I beat a Echo+Vader+Bomber build last night on Vassal with a XXXZ, I got lucky and had Wedge miss bumping Echo by probably a pixel after we zoomed in as far as the game would let us and of course Wedge R1 on an uncloaked Phantom is just awesome anytime it is pulled off but I digress. He built his squad on Vader using Swarm Tactics to bring Echo up to a 9 so I knew that I needed to separate them some how and that Echo's maneuverability would be restricted to that of an Tie Advanced is he kept them as close as he wanted too

For tournaments, here's some things that I think about.

1) Have a plan. If you look at Paul Heaver's posts, about Worlds, you know that he had a plan for his Astroid setup and starting positions. When your playing for 8+ hours, if you mind can take a break for the first few turns in a match it will let you ease into a game, and save your brain power for the later turns.

2) Know when to ditch your plan. Sometime you run into something you just didn't expect or they place a asteroid in a spot that blocks what you want to do. Don't get stuck with your plan, but roll with the changes. Find a way to use this as a spark to your creative side.

3) Know your ships. My buddy Jonathan made it to the top 4 at worlds, and the night before I told him he should fly x-wings because that's his strength. He doesn't have to think to hard about the dial or what that ship can do, he knows it.

4) Bring water and snacks. Keep hydrated. Take the time to sit when you can. Standing and playing for long periods will take it's toll so these little things add up.

5) Learn how to Examine a squad. You have a short time to look at someones squad, so you should take that time. You will want to be able to see what's your biggest threat. You will fly differently against Falcon squad then say Tie Swarm.

For Non Tournaments:

1) Fly everything. I'm a die hard rebel, but I fly imperials because I want to know how their ships move, and what their strengths are.

2) Fly Crazy. Sometimes Crazy builds that nobody in their right mind would fly, might just surprise you. You may discover a new combo, or some bit of synergy that's been overlooked.

3) Enjoy your losses. Losing is an opportunity to learn. It's easy to blame dice, but don't.

Edited by mrfroggies

For tournaments, here's some things that I think about.

1) Have a plan. If you look at Paul Heaver's posts, about Worlds, you know that he had a plan for his Astroid setup and starting positions. When your playing for 8+ hours, if you mind can take a break for the first few turns in a match it will let you ease into a game, and save your brain power for the later turns.

2) Know when to ditch your plan. Sometime you run into something you just didn't expect or they place a asteroid in a spot that blocks what you want to do. Don't get stuck with your plan, but roll with the changes. Find a way to use this as a spark to your creative side.

3) Know your ships. My buddy Jonathan made it to the top 4 at worlds, and the night before I told him he should fly x-wings because that's his strength. He doesn't have to think to hard about the dial or what that ship can do, he knows it.

4) Bring water and snacks. Keep hydrated. Take the time to sit when you can. Standing and playing for long periods will take it's toll so these little things add up.

5) Learn how to Examine a squad. You have a short time to look at someones squad, so you should take that time. You will want to be able to see what's your biggest threat. You will fly differently against Falcon squad then say Tie Swarm.

For Non Tournaments:

1) Fly everything. I'm a die hard rebel, but I fly imperials because I want to know how their ships move, and what their strengths are.

2) Fly Crazy. Sometimes Crazy builds that nobody in their right mind would fly, might just surprise you. You may discover a new combo, or some bit of synergy that's been overlooked.

3) Enjoy your losses. Losing is an opportunity to learn. It's easy to blame dice, but don't.

May that be a lesson for the rest of them

Don't always rush headfirst into combat.

With rebels, do a few 1 forwards, as empire instead of always placing your ships to shoot straight across the board towards the enemy, fly horizontal alongside your section, then hard turn towards the enemy when you feel its right.

A tactic I've used a few times with satisfying success, is to line up facing the opponent then immediately pull a short kturn or sharp one. Its beautiful when it works.

I've had it where my opponent went full speed forward with Han & his two Xwings while I K-turned my Soontir very first turn. It gaveme a perfect set up to pincer & crush his squad.