So I'm trying to build a squad that trumps Echo (and to a certain extent Whisper) as well as having solid output against YT Tank Builds, I know trying to do the impossible but this is more of a theoretical exercise anyway.

My current shell is this:

PS10 Luke Skywalker + VI 29

PS9 Wedge Antilies 29

PS9 Jek Porkins + VI 27

PS2 Bandit Squadron 12

97 points

3 x PS9+ Pilots with a blocker thrown in for good measure.

I previously had Wes Jansen + VI instead of Porkins topping out at 100 points but wondered what could be added to the list by dropping Wes to Porkins.

Potentially at 97 point you could go for the initiative bid to fire first on PS9 Whisper and PS9 Han or spend the 3 points on a relevant upgrade (Porkins Astro R5-D8 or PTL on Wedge etc.)

There aren’t very many Phantoms in my area however I would prefer that for this exercise we assume it's an unknown meta that you’re dealing with and to expect a wide variety of Tier 1 Phantom and YT lists.

How would you spend those last 3 points, or conversely would you change to Wes? I'm interested to hear any constructive comments.

Three points worth of Predator will work on Wedge, making him more of a juicy target than he already is.

Hull upgrade on Porkins as a buffer for his ability. Might not be a bad list. Wes though is nasty and will make your opponent question who to shoot first.

Everyone forgets Roark! Catch the phantom uncloaked and Han does not, in fact, shoot first.

PS10 Wes Janson + VI 30

PS9 Wedge Antilies + Predator 32

PS5 Biggs Darklighter 25

I would upgrade Jek to Wes. By doing so, you are now PS10-10-9-2, so except for Wedge against other PS9, initiative is not so much of an issue. Also, by shooting with Wes first, you are sure that the Phantom won't have a focus against Luke or that the Falcon won't have his evade.

I like the idea of 3 PS 9 pilots, but I would probably drop VI on Porkins and give Wedge Preditor. That puts you at 99 points- so you still have an initiative bid, and Preditor is almost mandatory, IMO.

I flew against a similar list last weekend, except it was a little more defensive- Biggs instead of Porkins, with Luke + r2-d2 and DtF. It was a tough match until I broke up his squad, and focus fired on Wedge.

The real problem with this list is Wedge is always the first target.

Three points worth of Predator will work on Wedge, making him more of a juicy target than he already is.

I like the Idea, though as you said Wedge is already a high priority so making him even more so a poor way to spend the points, I think a better Idea would be to spend the 3 points on an aggressively minded upgrade for either Luke or Porkins, what do people think of R7-T1 of Luke? Anything to even out the threat level of your ships so that if the obvious target dies under focus fire (wedge) you have spent those spare points on something else that will remain on the board and provide more longer lasting impact on the game.

The other advantage of two PS10 ships is that it forces the Phantom to decloak blind unless they are starting within Range 2.

Wes is overcosted unless you make use of his ability for sure, which basically means opportunist. Or playing against ships that have more than one token. The first build with predator on wedge is pretty good.

PS10 Wes Janson + VI 30

PS9 Wedge Antilies + Predator 32

PS5 Biggs Darklighter 25

PS2 Bandit Squadron 12

99 points

I like this build better because it makes Han/Phantom target Biggs first keep your Wes and Wedge alive just a little longer to make a difference in the game. Plus Wes shooting first and stripping focus/evade tokens for Wedge to shoot at is pretty sick. Against the Chewie matchup you still have Biggs who will more than likely shoot before anyone else (since they usually go to 100 points).

This build with luke instead of wes at 98 MIGHT screw up the occasional initiative bid, but will still prob be a roll off at 98 to 98. Wouldn't be able to do too much with the 2 pts, but i think r7 on luke is highly underestimated. Luke should pretty much be target locking by default instead of focus because of his ability. Could be pretty annoying against a ship that can roll 4 dice.

I like 3 ship builds. So I would perpose the following build

Wes Janson + Veteran Instincts (30)

Wedge Antilles + Predator (32)

Corran Horn + Fire-Control System + Veteran Instincts (38)

I like 3 ship builds. So I would perpose the following build

Wes Janson + Veteran Instincts (30)

Wedge Antilles + Predator (32)

Corran Horn + Fire-Control System + Veteran Instincts (38)

Interesting but I'm a little weary of Rebel squads with 15 HP total, having not flown Coran Horn at all do you believe that he is worth it over Jek + VI & Bandit squadron? (a point out but there's a little wiggle room in the overall list)

I suppose the whole question is are the 1 extra agility dice, ever so slightly better dial and Coran’s ability (Paired with FCS) worth and entire extra ship (the bandit Squadron) ?

I'm inclined to say no but again having never flow Coran I'm not in a position to make a definitive decision.

I unfortunately don't have anything to contribute to this fantastic conversation, other than to say that I enjoy watching Mace Windu try and solve the Phantom Menace...

I unfortunately don't have anything to contribute to this fantastic conversation, other than to say that I enjoy watching Mace Windu try and solve the Phantom Menace...

Haha must remember to watch out for a ‘Cloaked’ old man trying to throw me out a window

Wes is overcosted unless you make use of his ability for sure, which basically means opportunist. Or playing against ships that have more than one token. The first build with predator on wedge is pretty good.

PS10 Wes Janson + VI 30

PS9 Wedge Antilies + Predator 32

PS5 Biggs Darklighter 25

PS2 Bandit Squadron 12

99 points

I like this build better because it makes Han/Phantom target Biggs first keep your Wes and Wedge alive just a little longer to make a difference in the game. Plus Wes shooting first and stripping focus/evade tokens for Wedge to shoot at is pretty sick. Against the Chewie matchup you still have Biggs who will more than likely shoot before anyone else (since they usually go to 100 points).

This build with luke instead of wes at 98 MIGHT screw up the occasional initiative bid, but will still prob be a roll off at 98 to 98. Wouldn't be able to do too much with the 2 pts, but i think r7 on luke is highly underestimated. Luke should pretty much be target locking by default instead of focus because of his ability. Could be pretty annoying against a ship that can roll 4 dice.

Actually, Wes's ability is only useless when an opponent has andwould spend the token. Wes is good, as you said, when he strips a second token, but he's guaranteed to do so even when he misses when a single token is in play, which is pretty good, too. So opportunist, imo, is not a requirement, though it does add some excellent synergy. (Thinking about it more, I think you could argue that Opportunist needs Wes more than to be more effective than Wes needs Opportunist to be effective.)

I like 3 ship builds. So I would perpose the following build

Wes Janson + Veteran Instincts (30)

Wedge Antilles + Predator (32)

Corran Horn + Fire-Control System + Veteran Instincts (38)

Interesting but I'm a little weary of Rebel squads with 15 HP total, having not flown Coran Horn at all do you believe that he is worth it over Jek + VI & Bandit squadron? (a point out but there's a little wiggle room in the overall list)

I suppose the whole question is are the 1 extra agility dice, ever so slightly better dial and Coran’s ability (Paired with FCS) worth and entire extra ship (the bandit Squadron) ?

I'm inclined to say no but again having never flow Coran I'm not in a position to make a definitive decision.

Against a YT the Z will be better more guns to take the beast down. When it comes to Jek Vs Corran, Mr.Horn is a much, much better pilot. We push him to 10 and keep him and Wes shooting at a uncloaked Phantom is huge.

A bandit will almost never get hits on a Phantom cloaked. It's only real use would be to corral the Phantom in. When you get the chance to line up a range 1 shot with Corran and it doesn't finish off a Phantom his pilot ability will be worth it's weight in gold to finish it off.

Potentially at 97 point you could go for the initiative bid to fire first on PS9 Whisper and PS9 Han or spend the 3 points on a relevant upgrade (Porkins Astro R5-D8 or PTL on Wedge etc.)

nts.

1st Never use PTL on an X-wing now that Predator is out (if you add an EU then it is maybe worth considering but Predator should still win) If your 2 actions are Target Lock for rerolls and Focus (only options on a naked X-wing) you are stressing yourself to get probably the same rerolls that you would have with Predator yes a target lock can be used to roll 2+ Dice but you should get 1 hit out of 3 dice so 1(2) rerolls should be enough especially when you consider the stress aspect

Second for 3pts I would consider Outmanuever on Luke instead of Corran, Having 2 "Wedges" against a 3PO YT means it should drop faster than usual and/or let you use Porkins/Bandit on the Escorts giving you a better chance at surviving

Everyone forgets Roark! Catch the phantom uncloaked and Han does not, in fact, shoot first.

But HWKs are so horrible.

I actually have a 2 HWK build that is 7 and 0. Two of those are against falcons (one double and one with 3 Zs), another two vs Phantoms.

The best part is I've only lost 3 ships over 6 games. My last game vs 5 Rebs took out all of my ships except 1 which had 1 hull left by game end.

Wes + Vi > Luke + VI

Everyone forgets Roark! Catch the phantom uncloaked and Han does not, in fact, shoot first.

But HWKs are so horrible.

I actually have a 2 HWK build that is 7 and 0. Two of those are against falcons (one double and one with 3 Zs), another two vs Phantoms.

The best part is I've only lost 3 ships over 6 games. My last game vs 5 Rebs took out all of my ships except 1 which had 1 hull left by game end.

R7-T1 is a good option, but not very good versus phantoms since they are unlikely to be in front of you anyway. The biggest Issue for rebels against phantoms is the lack of boosting ships. Moving after a phantom is all well and good, but without boost or barrel roll you'll still be unlikely to get them in your sights all that often.

Another option is stress bot on Jek. If you need too you can ignore the stress, even better considering you can potentially k-turn, focus and shoot with stress bot, as a potential option, though not one you want to try often. Tough for a phantom to avoid arcs from both wedge and a k-turning jek. Also makes jek a viable target instead of wedge.

100pts

Wedge w/ expert handling, R2 astromech & hull upgrade

Luke w/ veteran instincts & engine upgrade

Jek w/ veteran instincts, R3-A2 & hull upgrade

Splits the difference between countering phantom & YT-3PO. Has extra hull to endure the turret while you focus down Z95s (or vice versa). Has PS 9+ with repositioning to trap phantoms, but at 100pts loses initiative to most Whisper lists. You could drop hull from Wedge, secure initiative at 97pts, or put R2 astromech on Luke at 98pts. Overall the damage output feels weak for a 3ship list.

98pts

Wedge w/ predator & engine upgrade

Luke w/ veteran instincts & engine upgrade

Jek w/ veteran instincts & R3-A2

Better offense, slightly weaker repositioning (IMHO EH w/ R2 is better than EU). Less durable overall.

Luke and Jek w/ VI, and Wedge leaves 15 pts for upgrades and initiative. It is difficult to find the best combination of enhanced durability, maneuverability and damage consistency you can get out of those 15pts, especially w/ headhunter packs and mini swarms running interference on you.

R7-T1 is a good option, but not very good versus phantoms since they are unlikely to be in front of you anyway. The biggest Issue for rebels against phantoms is the lack of boosting ships. Moving after a phantom is all well and good, but without boost or barrel roll you'll still be unlikely to get them in your sights all that often.

Another option is stress bot on Jek. If you need too you can ignore the stress, even better considering you can potentially k-turn, focus and shoot with stress bot, as a potential option, though not one you want to try often. Tough for a phantom to avoid arcs from both wedge and a k-turning jek. Also makes jek a viable target instead of wedge.

I think you need to re-read R7-T1. R7 requires you to be in front of the chosen ship. Not the other way aroundn