Hi. Some of my PC's want a EMP (Electro Magnetic Pulse) granede. I was thinking about this

EMP thrown SB X3 3d10+5 5 blast(2) special* 0,8kg 85 rare

Special: only dam VS things whit the Machine Trait otherways no dam

Make it 2D10+5 - I don't believe there are too many warmachines not protected against EMP in the Grim Dark etc.

how about 2D10+2 special* ?

special: Machine Trait gives no AP.

the idea about a EMP is to make Magnetic Pulses to shot down robots and its like

How about instead of damage you have the weapon or vehicle be stunned for 1d10+5 rounds. Give it a save based on the Size or complexity of the machine spirit.

Or come up with a chart like the hallucinogen grenades. Random effect charts are always fun!

ItsUncertainWho said:

i like that idea think i will do that. I think my PC also will like the idea

This what Haywire grenades are.

There still aren't offical rules for Haywire grenades but it sounds cooler (and less sciency than EMP grenades).

One thing to keep in mind is the Imperials view of machinery. They believe it has a spirit hence the litanys and rituals that surround their use. Any weapon that shuts off the machine spirit could be considered a heretical weapon. Espcially by Tech Priests.

Other thing to consider is how it will effect a Tech Priest. Larger parts of their bodies have been replaced with machinery, including vital organs. An EMP weapon would be especially fatal to them. So if allowed in general I'd have Tech Priests personally consider it a heresy and react accordingly.

I do see a difference between a Haywire and an EMP weapon. An EMP weapon shuts it down outright. It 'kills' the machine spirit. A haywire weapon causes it to go out of control, in other words causes the the machine spirit to hallucinate. So I do see a significant difference between the two.

I doubt the machinery would be shielded. Simply put the Imperium has cloaked technology is so much religion that they don't truly understand how it works and hence would not know why an EMP weapon works. They would try to understand why the EMP effect the machine spirit, something that doesn't exist. Plus they would be looking at this from a religious point of view. Also as Haywire weapons work indicates a lack of shielding as a haywire weapons is likely a weak EMP field that causes the flucuations instead of complete shutdown.

I don't think that really means that haywire and EMP are different things. The best result of a haywire grenade used to be complete destruction of the technology. Although game balance and stream lining has reduced that down.

Because they don't understand how it works doesn't mean it isn't protected. Machines would have a great number of componants that the mechanicus do not understand. Some ancient parts still shielded, some incorrectly translated. All in all that could easily turn full EMP shutdown into partial system failure with unpredicable results.

In Mechanicus terms a haywire grenade attacks the machine spirit, usually causing temporary loss of function or control and sometimes with fatal consequences to the machine.

Other thing to consider is how it will effect a Tech Priest. Larger parts of their bodies have been replaced with machinery, including vital organs. An EMP weapon would be especially fatal to them. So if allowed in general I'd have Tech Priests personally consider it a heresy and react accordingly.

That's a common misconception - anything powerful enough to wreak serious havoc with machines will not be much nicer to the human body. There's a reason you shouldn't stand next to a ship's radar dish...

I doubt the machinery would be shielded. Simply put the Imperium has cloaked technology is so much religion that they don't truly understand how it works and hence would not know why an EMP weapon works. They would try to understand why the EMP effect the machine spirit, something that doesn't exist. Plus they would be looking at this from a religious point of view. Also as Haywire weapons work indicates a lack of shielding as a haywire weapons is likely a weak EMP field that causes the flucuations instead of complete shutdown.

EMP-Shielding already exists today. The Mechanicus wouldn't have to invent something that protects against an all-new danger but just have to carry on building stuff the way it's written in their blue prints and the way they did for millenia. That sounds like something they're pretty good at. Further, while the AdMech is indeed suffused with a lot of religious superstition, that doesn't make them inefficient (well... it does, but not to the extent that they're useless). So what if they think EMP is an attack against the machine spirit? Just find something that shields the spirit against it. By your logic, the AdMech wouldn't be capable of building anything more modern than, say, 19th century tech - which doesn't fit with the canon.
Finally, Haywire grenades were expensive , IIRC, meaning they might simply have ways to circumvent some shielding. As everywhere, it's an arms race between weapons and protection against them.

That's a common misconception - anything powerful enough to wreak serious havoc with machines will not be much nicer to the human body. There's a reason you shouldn't stand next to a ship's radar dish...

Not always. EMP exists today and can cause havoc on say your computer without really doing anything to the human body. You're right about the radar dish but that is a magnitude of power greater than what we are talking about.

EMP-Shielding already exists today. The Mechanicus wouldn't have to invent something that protects against an all-new danger but just have to carry on building stuff the way it's written in their blue prints and the way they did for millenia. That sounds like something they're pretty good at. Further, while the AdMech is indeed suffused with a lot of religious superstition, that doesn't make them inefficient (well... it does, but not to the extent that they're useless). So what if they think EMP is an attack against the machine spirit? Just find something that shields the spirit against it. By your logic, the AdMech wouldn't be capable of building anything more modern than, say, 19th century tech - which doesn't fit with the canon.

Yes it exists but it also isn't commonly used because of a variety of reasons. Only certain systems have this protections and it's fairly limited. So you would have to assume that all tech that the Mechanicus copies would have the shielding. This is unlikely and as the Mechanicus copy existing templates and do not do much inovation. The religious nature of tech actually works against them in this regard. Look at the Space Marine Codex and you will see where some marine chapters modified some weapon systems on the Rhino chasis and the Mechanicus only reluctlantly accepted this. Changing any template would be seen as changing the text of holy scripture. The Mechanicus can build new things but it is pretty much limited to those STC's that they rediscover.

Finally, Haywire grenades were expensive, IIRC, meaning they might simply have ways to circumvent some shielding. As everywhere, it's an arms race between weapons and protection against them.

Agree. However as I said before, I believe a haywire weapon is an EMP weapon. That being the case, it indicates a lack of shielding on the tech. The difference as I see it between a haywire and an EMP as suggested originally in this thread is that while the haywire weapon table had a chance to shut down tech, the EMP weapon suggested would guarantee it. Basically they are talking about a high powered haywire weapon.