I see the complaint about turrets often, followed by a Dogfighting reference as if a real game based on WWI & WWII is not true to history or whatever if there are spinning guns.
This is wrong first of all and it does not give any merit to the argument against turrets being in a "dogfight game".
The fact is that Machine guns and Cannons have been set into turrets since the modern wars.
Respect the wisdom of our Fathers!
What?!? This has to be a mistake?
I don't think anyone's arguing that turrets shouldn't exist - several ships you see in the films explicitely have them and you see them being used on-screen.
Nor is it that turrets 'don't belong' in a dogfight. But where one side has to worry about evading obstacles and range and arc of fire, and the other only has to worry about evading obstacles and range, the latter has an easier job finding an effective manouvre than the former.
This isn't the same as "turrets aren't fair". It just means that ships with turreted weapons have an advantage which needs to be balanced out by either a cost increase or a disadvantage elsewhere in its capabilities.
The problem (for some people) is that there are some ships (principally the TIE interceptor and A-wing) which lives and dies by avoiding arcs of fire in the first place, and they are hit harder than most by the existance of the turret, and always will be; if you price a turret to make it fair against them, it'll be massively overpriced in a match against 'normal' ships like X-wings.
What?!? This has to be a mistake?
Me sowwies.
The only true turreted ship at the moment is the falcon. Everything else has to spend points to become turreted. And since the falcon is super expensive from go, it's pretty balanced.
People will stop complaining once they can run decimator/squints.
I don't think anyone's arguing that turrets shouldn't exist - several ships you see in the films explicitely have them and you see them being used on-screen.
Nor is it that turrets 'don't belong' in a dogfight. But where one side has to worry about evading obstacles and range and arc of fire, and the other only has to worry about evading obstacles and range, the latter has an easier job finding an effective manouvre than the former.
This isn't the same as "turrets aren't fair". It just means that ships with turreted weapons have an advantage which needs to be balanced out by either a cost increase or a disadvantage elsewhere in its capabilities.
The problem (for some people) is that there are some ships (principally the TIE interceptor and A-wing) which lives and dies by avoiding arcs of fire in the first place, and they are hit harder than most by the existance of the turret, and always will be; if you price a turret to make it fair against them, it'll be massively overpriced in a match against 'normal' ships like X-wings.
table top games typically have some "ro sham bo" aspect to the mechanics. It's what makes the game fun! =)
sure my elite super squad of acadamy pilots is great against bobs list, but while playing against joe i lost because he as assault missiles. Bob on the other hand won vs joe because joe's 3 glass cannons got shot down from bobs turret. ect. ect.
Edited by oddeyeI don't think anyone's arguing that turrets shouldn't exist - several ships you see in the films explicitely have them and you see them being used on-screen.
Nor is it that turrets 'don't belong' in a dogfight. But where one side has to worry about evading obstacles and range and arc of fire, and the other only has to worry about evading obstacles and range, the latter has an easier job finding an effective manouvre than the former.
This isn't the same as "turrets aren't fair". It just means that ships with turreted weapons have an advantage which needs to be balanced out by either a cost increase or a disadvantage elsewhere in its capabilities.
The problem (for some people) is that there are some ships (principally the TIE interceptor and A-wing) which lives and dies by avoiding arcs of fire in the first place, and they are hit harder than most by the existance of the turret, and always will be; if you price a turret to make it fair against them, it'll be massively overpriced in a match against 'normal' ships like X-wings.
I have sympathy for the TIE Interceptor and Adorable little A-Wing. I do. I own three A's and will have three more when we get our happy hands on REB Aces. I also own six Interceptors and I am going to buy two more IMP Aces after Wave five is out and so forth. I LOVE both of these ships and the fact that they are both got the Aces treatment is glorious IMO.
With that stated. My fine Wingers...
I ain't bring'n 'em to a turret fight!
The point is simply this:. Some of our fellows here would do well if they stopped complaining and started learning to use other ships when they are facing a turret heavy force.
The crying is not going to save you if you bring a knife to a gun fight... just because you really love that knife.
Are they fair? Well how good are Y-Wings and HWK's really?
No... Really?
Can a MF be as good as it should be for much less than 60 points?
No!
I don't think anyone's arguing that turrets shouldn't exist - several ships you see in the films explicitely have them and you see them being used on-screen.
Nor is it that turrets 'don't belong' in a dogfight. But where one side has to worry about evading obstacles and range and arc of fire, and the other only has to worry about evading obstacles and range, the latter has an easier job finding an effective manouvre than the former.
This isn't the same as "turrets aren't fair". It just means that ships with turreted weapons have an advantage which needs to be balanced out by either a cost increase or a disadvantage elsewhere in its capabilities.
The problem (for some people) is that there are some ships (principally the TIE interceptor and A-wing) which lives and dies by avoiding arcs of fire in the first place, and they are hit harder than most by the existance of the turret, and always will be; if you price a turret to make it fair against them, it'll be massively overpriced in a match against 'normal' ships like X-wings.
I have sympathy for the TIE Interceptor and Adorable little A-Wing. I do. I own three A's and will have three more when we get our happy hands on REB Aces. I also own six Interceptors and I am going to buy two more IMP Aces after Wave five is out and so forth. I LOVE both of these ships and the fact that they are both got the Aces treatment is glorious IMO.
With that stated. My fine Wingers...
I ain't bring'n 'em to a turret fight!
The point is simply this:. Some of our fellows here would do well stop stop complaining and start learning to use other ships when they are facing a turret heavy force.
The crying is not going to save you if you bring a knife to a gun fight... just because you really love that knife.
Are they fair? Well how good are Y-Wings and HWK's really?
No... Really?
Can a MF be as good as it should be for less that 60 points?
No!
A properly used Y-Wing or Hawk is amazing. Just to answer your question.
I don't think anyone's arguing that turrets shouldn't exist - several ships you see in the films explicitely have them and you see them being used on-screen.
Nor is it that turrets 'don't belong' in a dogfight. But where one side has to worry about evading obstacles and range and arc of fire, and the other only has to worry about evading obstacles and range, the latter has an easier job finding an effective manouvre than the former.
This isn't the same as "turrets aren't fair". It just means that ships with turreted weapons have an advantage which needs to be balanced out by either a cost increase or a disadvantage elsewhere in its capabilities.
The problem (for some people) is that there are some ships (principally the TIE interceptor and A-wing) which lives and dies by avoiding arcs of fire in the first place, and they are hit harder than most by the existance of the turret, and always will be; if you price a turret to make it fair against them, it'll be massively overpriced in a match against 'normal' ships like X-wings.
I have sympathy for the TIE Interceptor and Adorable little A-Wing. I do. I own three A's and will have three more when we get our happy hands on REB Aces. I also own six Interceptors and I am going to buy two more IMP Aces after Wave five is out and so forth. I LOVE both of these ships and the fact that they are both got the Aces treatment is glorious IMO.
With that stated. My fine Wingers...
I ain't bring'n 'em to a turret fight!
The point is simply this:. Some of our fellows here would do well stop stop complaining and start learning to use other ships when they are facing a turret heavy force.
The crying is not going to save you if you bring a knife to a gun fight... just because you really love that knife.
Are they fair? Well how good are Y-Wings and HWK's really?
No... Really?
Can a MF be as good as it should be for less that 60 points?
No!
but how often do you assault the death star trench or sneak an ex-imperial sometimes jedi onto a planet in this game?
I don't think anyone's arguing that turrets shouldn't exist - several ships you see in the films explicitely have them and you see them being used on-screen.
Nor is it that turrets 'don't belong' in a dogfight. But where one side has to worry about evading obstacles and range and arc of fire, and the other only has to worry about evading obstacles and range, the latter has an easier job finding an effective manouvre than the former.
This isn't the same as "turrets aren't fair". It just means that ships with turreted weapons have an advantage which needs to be balanced out by either a cost increase or a disadvantage elsewhere in its capabilities.
The problem (for some people) is that there are some ships (principally the TIE interceptor and A-wing) which lives and dies by avoiding arcs of fire in the first place, and they are hit harder than most by the existance of the turret, and always will be; if you price a turret to make it fair against them, it'll be massively overpriced in a match against 'normal' ships like X-wings.
table top games typically have some "ro sham bo" aspect to the mechanics. It's what makes the game fun! =)
I have six Y-Wings for a reason my Brother Wingers.
"Ro-Sham-Bo"!
But where one side has to worry about evading obstacles and range and arc of fire, and the other only has to worry about evading obstacles and range, the latter has an easier job finding an effective manouvre than the former.
But isn't it the turret ships that need to evade arcs?
BTW, only the Falcon and Decimator have "if you can shoot me, I can shoot you." Y-wings and HWKs can't fire at Range 3, giving them a blind spot of sorts you can aim for. The Outrider's either got 2 attack (not that scary on such an expensive ship) nothing but an ion cannon or either a Range 1 or a Range 2-3 area.
It's that funny situation where I'm continually reading how HWKs are worthless, and then suddenly with a turret mounted weapon they turn into some over-powered piece of Rebel cheating. Or something like that.
That's why I own three Y-Wings and two HWKs.
But where one side has to worry about evading obstacles and range and arc of fire, and the other only has to worry about evading obstacles and range, the latter has an easier job finding an effective manouvre than the former.
But isn't it the turret ships that need to evade arcs?
Yup and except for a well kitted out and well flown Falcon, it is nigh impossible to get around the Glass-Cannons that hate out Turrets.
I call it even myself.
I have six Y-Wings for a reason my Brother Wingers.
"Ro-Sham-Bo"!
yep. i have 5 y wings. I'm waiting for the next rebel aces before i get more. planning on running a squadron in epic!
Can a MF be as good as it should be for much less than 60 points?
Well a bit less But yeah the Falcon does in fact pay for that turret. I remember an anti-turret thread not too long ago, saying that turrets shouldn't have 3 dice.
But the ORS only has 2 dice. You have to pay another 15 points to get the 3rd dice, 4 points of PS, and a few more shield and hull. That's the cost of a named tie, or even a A-Wing with the refit.
A typical Falcon is going to cost over 50 points.
It's that funny situation where I'm continually reading how HWKs are worthless, and then suddenly with a turret mounted weapon they turn into some over-powered piece of Rebel cheating. Or something like that.
That's why I own three Y-Wings and two HWKs.
You ain't even play'n half fair... you dirty so-n-so you!
That HWK is a MF'N MONSTER!
... and I dammit-dare you to just try and keep up with my Swagger'n Y's!
I have six Y-Wings for a reason my Brother Wingers.
"Ro-Sham-Bo"!
yep. i have 5 y wings. I'm waiting for the next rebel aces before i get more. planning on running a squadron in epic!
Ditto my brother... ditto.
Can a MF be as good as it should be for much less than 60 points?
Well a bit less
But the ORS only has 2 dice. You have to pay another 15 points to get the 3rd dice, 4 points of PS, and a few more shield and hull. That's the cost of a named tie, or even a A-Wing with the refit.
A typical Falcon is going to cost over 50 points.
Yeah it is.
Mine are looking like this currently.
The MF!
61 points
results. If you roll that many results (before modifying the dice), add 1 result. action icon.
The MF!
60 points
results. If you roll that many results (before modifying the dice), add 1 result.
result, assign 1 focus token to your ship. For each result , assign 1 evade token to your ship. action icon.Y-wings are the best rebel ship! They take a beating and what else can make your opponent fly themselves off the board better then a Y-wing? Fun and funny all in one package.
I'm always torn between putting an R5 on the Y, to let it be a tank, or the R2, to actually let it do useful K-turns...
Oh yeah, and then blast you to oblivion with it's turret, if you're kind enough to stay at range 1 or 2, please.
Turrets are effective but you guys might notice that the ones that have 360 degree arcs also just so happen to move like ass.
So there's your balance.
Turrets are effective but you guys might notice that the ones that have 360 degree arcs also just so happen to move like ass.
So there's your balance.
Here's what I'd like to see for Y-Wings.
Title Card Y-Wing BTL-S3.
You may ignore the focus cost on a blaster turret upgrade.
It would effectively add a gunner to the Y-Wing, so the gunner could 'focus' on firing the blaster turret leaving the pilot free to fly.
A new turret without the focus cost could be an issue because then you could use it on other ships. Although I suppose a blaster turret that is Y-Wing only could accomplish the same thing.
Edited by VanorDMY-wings are the best rebel ship! They take a beating and what else can make your opponent fly themselves off the board better then a Y-wing? Fun and funny all in one package.
Yup!
In EPIC get a six-pack of Y's going with a six-pack-round-back of Z's.
After the Ion and Alpha fun, you get that 24 dice of blaster fire.
HI!