Hello everyone.

I was arsing about a while ago, having my mind on scenarios I might throw my players into, when I came up with a little adventure about searching a ruined city for an important survivor, or some other important maguffin. Anyway, I figured a more effecient method of transportation than walking might be necessary, so I started looking around for stats and rules for things like Rhinos and other vehicles, and was surprised when I couldn't find any. I got my hands on Rites of Battle, and there found the stats and rules I wanted, but I couldn't find anything about the availability of it. Translations didn't seem to work, as the only numbers I could find referenced the cost of the items, which doesn't seem to apply to vehicles since they operate on a "I am famous enough fro this, and I want it" and then a yay or nay from the GM. I can't really see that working out in Black Crusade, where players are masters of their own destinies. Seemed I would need to houserule those numbers.

So I figured I'd come here, to see if any of you already had such a table, or if we could bash our big beautiful chaotic heads together to figure one out.

Rhino - Very rare

Predator and Vindicator - Extremely Rare

Land Raider - Near Unique

Titans - Well actually they have rules. Unique, best quality, IIRC.

That's what I could come up with, if the top of my head. Any thoughts?

Hmm, doesn't Only War have some references to Chaos vehicles? I can check later when I'm back home.

Nevermind, there are some Chaos Vehicles on page 354 of the Only War core rulebook, but it only references the Blood Slaughterer, Defiler, and Soul Grinder. Supplements possibly refer to the other vehicles. Nothing about availability though.

The other vehicles are possibly in "Enemies of the Imperium".

Enemies of the Imperium only references the HellBrute.

No surrender has a bunch of daemon engines: The HelDrake, Defiler, Forgefiend, MaulerFiend and SoulGrinder.

Tome of Fate has the Ether Ray, Mirrorfiend and Auruntaur, also Daemon engines.

So maybe not what you're looking for.

I'm surprised there is no reference in the actual Chaos books.

So yes, Rites of Battle seems like the closest for getting actual stats and stuff, nothing about availability then though.

Indeed. And if I remember correctly, you don't even need to look that far. Most daemon engines are covered in black crusades books. Helbrutes and Heldrakes I think are in either tome of blood or excess. And both of those has a bunch of other daemon engines too. Don't know about forge/maulerfiend though. I'll have to look that up. Maybe they're in tome of decay.

Anyway, they have kind of the same problem in not having any mention of how to get a hold of them. Helbrutes are said to be on some wierd moon that moves from planet to planet not giving any ***** about laws of physics. But they are also used as dreadnoughts by chaos legions. I looked up their page on a wiki, and those things are horrifying, with barbed tentacles which sucks the pilot in, making them one with the machine in an traumatizing and mindbreaking process. That would be awesome to have as a leader of a warband to make an example of people who have failed you. But again, there's no mention of it.

It's so disappointing. I would love to drive around in a chaos vindicator blowing holes in buildings, or search through a ruined city with a rhino and a predator. Or oh i dunno, make a campaign which takes place in a chaos space marine legion, where you go to imperial planets and cause chaos. That could be cool. But it seems we need to fix that stuff ourselves if we want it.

If you are looking for rhino stats and availability you may wish to look in Into the Storm as it has both in the vehicles section.

The section has stats and Prices for the folowing:

Scout Bikes

Rhinos

Drop Pods

Land Speeders

Other then that there are OLD stats(Dark Heresy) for all the SM vehicles in the Apocraphy: Vehicles of the Imperium PDF web addon if you need stats for things. Though those dont have prices I'm sure you can create some that make sense.

Rhino - Very rare

Predator and Vindicator - Extremely Rare

Land Raider - Near Unique

Titans - Well actually they have rules. Unique, best quality, IIRC.

That's what I could come up with, if the top of my head. Any thoughts?

I think these are quite correct Availabilities, although Tome of Blood gives Legion Combat Bike Availability Extremely Rare.

I might drop Legion Combat Bike to Rare as there is Daemonically infused Goredriver that is also Extremely Rare.

So I might go by:

Combat Bike - Scarce

Legion Combat Bike , Rhino - Rare

Rhino (variants) , Legion Rhino, Legion Razorback - Very Rare

Legion Rhino (Variants), Legion Predator, Legion Vindicator - Extremely Rare

Legion Land Speeder (Variants) - Near Unique

Legion Land Raider (Variants) - Unique

Titan - Only if you are going to lead Black Crusade and succeed to recruit Traitor Titan Legion.

Would use Rites of Battle vehicles for Legion versions and Into the Storm vehicles for Variants used by Adeptus Arbites and other Human groups who have access to them.

Would also go through every vehicle and look if I need to raise Size. As for example Rites of Battle Rhino and Land Raider are both Size: Enourmous and in Only War CRB Chimera is Size: Massive