Also, swarm isn't a counter. The only true counters are massed cannon FCS B-wing builds which suck against most other things.

Slow roll a falcon and only engage on round 3. Good luck getting 20 range through before time without losing a ship. Pretty sure this was the actual falcon fortress FFG was keeping its eyes on.

Well I have done it several times, It's fun hit them, get their shields down cloak and keep using Saboteur. While cloaked they either have to deal with you or your teammates, If they go after them, sab away! Keep turning over criticals and watch them explode. If they go after the phantom, your other ties eat them for lunch with outmaneuver and predator.

It's like an Ion cannon on the B-wing, you don't always use it, but sometimes it can win you a game.

The main difference is Sab's is cheap! And lets face it if you know how to fly a phantom, you don't need a navigator or flight instructor.

Of course the real concern should be ffg seeing all these falcons in tournaments and adding a hard counter like they have with swarms allowing rebels their own cheap ships and assault missiles.

Scimitar Squadron, Cluster Missiles x 5.

Bye, bye Chewie, so long Chewie.

But I like flying Falcon + 2 Ships (recently switched to the three Z-95s at release and its not bad - still prefer Daggers with Fire Control System). I've been a big fan of Falcon since I started to play the game. I think people should just switch back to playing Phantom or Tie Swarm and I'll just stick with my favorite fleet that I've been playing for awhile...

A hard counter like Outmaneuver?

Played a game with my regular opponent and he used outmaneuver on Vader and I have to say it payed off pretty well. I think with an engine upgrade and outmaneuver that Vader could be quite effective offensively and we all know how good he is defensively.

In my local area, Han shoots 1st & the new Tank Chewie, are very popular.

Its actually kinda funny, I've finally gotten comfortable against fighting Han builds, now Chewie has stepped up.

I'm still in the building/testing phase for ways to take out Han & Chewie consistently. Outmaneuver is definitely the first thing that comes to mind. HLC's, & also blocking.

Because think about it, if they lose their action from being stressed or bumping, that shuts down the evade from the falcon title. Woooow. I just had a lightbulb go off in my head!

This is just an example. Boba fett, tactician, outmaneuver, ion pulse missile, HLC optional.

Get range two, ion & stress him. Next turn he takes a "white" 1 forward because of the ion, & no action because he's still stressed. Park at range one, or two again & blast the defenseless Falcon with everything you've got.

I'm going to try out a build with that. Even a bounty hunter could carry the tactician & ion missile. Giving you time to lay on the pain.

These new falcon builds are tough, don't get me wrong, but we CAN beat them. Its just going to take better tactics, equipment, & teamwork from your squad.

Chewie or Han+Chewie crew and a maximum-attack Corran Horn is something I've started playing around with:

(99 points)

Han Solo + Gunner + Chewbacca (crew) +Millenium Falcon (title)

Corran Horn + Marksmanship + Fire Control System + R2-D2

Or you can drop R2-D2 from Corran and give Han Marksmanship, or you can drop Han to Chewie (pilot) and get:

(100 points)

Chewbacca + Gunner + C-3P0 + Push the Limit + Millenium Falcon (title)

Corran Horn + Marksmanship + Fire Control System + R2-D2 + Flechette Torpedo

I played with my daughter, a 12 year old, using an Knave E-Wing with R2. She was **** near impossible to kill with 2 Defenders. There were some other ships on the board too, but really, an R2 E-Wing is a beast, no matter who the pilot is.

Here is a novel concept run something the Falcon doesn't like playing against. Run a Swarm even if you don't feel like being creative. But what about the Phantom?! Who cares about it if everyone else is so preoccupied with it that all you see is Falcons.

Trying to stifle conversation on the subject on supped up Falcon's on furthers any perceived issues. Instead of telling people not to promote them because they are "killing the game" you really should be promoting discussion on them and what to bring against them. Especially if you believe they are actually "killing the game". Then again doing that takes a bit more then hyperbole.

I have and did. See: Top 4 in a Regionals with a Defender.

1 out of three lists there were Falcon lists because people wanted a 'safe' list to fly. Do you know how incredibly dull it is to fight the same evading Falcon cheese list 6 times a row in a tournament?

I'd imagine it's pretty lame, but what's not talking about it or promoting it going to do about that? Cats out of the bag on this one. It isn't like it's an oddball build or one that requires extensive practice to start having some success. As you say it's a safe, apparent, well known build. Not talking about it isn't going to suddenly make it appear less at events. Calling it a "cheese list" isn't going to do anything about it either. The only thing that will do that, in the short term, is players gearing to play against it. Right now most aren't so they are allowing it to run roughshod over everything.

With how prolific it's distribution is at some events, it wouldn't matter if whatever counter you dreamed up had some other bad match-ups, odds are you are just going to see Falcons.

In the events where people have bucked up and ignored their fear of a possible Phantom encounter, Swarms have done well. They match-up up well against the Falcon, and the Falcon is overly popular, driving away the Swarms (recognized) bad match-up as well.

I don't really understand the phantom fear. Its a very expensive ship that is going to be a very large chunk of your list. There are easy ways to keep it from cloaking or attacking it first. I will fly it in fun mode at home for a while before I would trust my tournament to it.

Great discussion. I've been gearing up for a local tourney to deal with the Chewie Tank or HSF with my Echo list. I could eaily fly a list that counters the Falcons, but I want to balance flying a list I enjoy with the chance of winning.

Ultimately, today I think I stumbled upon something that another posters in this thread mentioned. If the Falcon comes to me, I try to block with my BH and Shuttle for a few turns to deny actions while I shoot at his escort. If I can score points from killing 1-2 of his escorts while keeping my BH/Shuttle alive when time runs out, then I win. I think this will only work in a 60-65 min round rather than 75.

For reference, I plan on flying either:

Echo + VI + ACD + RC

BH + Flight Instructor

Doomshuttle

99 pts

or keep same Echo and add:

2 BSP + Outmaneuver

2 BSP

100 pts

I have found that Chewie is pretty good at killing phantoms. If I were to make a list specifically with the thought of taking out Han/chewie I would go for a defender or a Firespray over a phantom. I know you wanted to use a phantom but YT's seem to be best against them. I really like your BSP+outmaneuver. I think a swarmy list will hurt a YT badly. I have had a lot of fun with defender/shuttle/firespray lists. I would imagine that they would do pretty well against the new hit chewie lists and phantoms.

I have found that Chewie is pretty good at killing phantoms. If I were to make a list specifically with the thought of taking out Han/chewie I would go for a defender or a Firespray over a phantom. I know you wanted to use a phantom but YT's seem to be best against them. I really like your BSP+outmaneuver. I think a swarmy list will hurt a YT badly. I have had a lot of fun with defender/shuttle/firespray lists. I would imagine that they would do pretty well against the new hit chewie lists and phantoms.

Yeah, I really want to try out the Phantom before Wave 5 meta completely annihilates it (with 2 turreted ships that both have lots of HP, the bane of Phantoms). I'll still play Phantoms in casual games, but in tournaments after this next one, I probably won't touch a Phantom again and will focus on tough ships (shuttle+Firespray) and defenders or interceptors.

I'm still debating BSP + Outmaneuver or Predator. With Predator, the first shot at the Falcon will be absorbed by C3PO and evade, so that's kind of a waste. With Outmaneuver, I can have the 2 BSPs block and the 2 with Outmaneuver flank. The goal is to not let the Falcon kill the BSP with Outmaneuver before they can shoot.

What's your Defender/Firespray/Shuttle list? The one I want to try is something like this:

Doomshuttle (24)

BH + Gunner (38)

Delta + HLC (37)

Man, these ships are so expensive that you can't really upgrade them. =(

I have wanted to try a BSP list and mix up predator and outmaneuver. I only ever use naked academies for blocking so they are PS 1 and I don't waste upgrade points.

As for my BH/Defender/shuttle list I like:

Bounty hunter with recon specialist

Col Vessery

OGP with Engine and Adv S.

I have debated changing Vessery to a lower skilled defender and taking an ion cannon but haven't tried it yet.

I'll give the BSPs a try. One of the reasons I'm using them with EPT is because I don't have 5 academies and don't really enjoy the thought of flying 5. I can do 4 just fine. ;-)

You could try 4 black ties + talent and Vader + talent with outmaneuver. Not sure how well it would work but you wouldn't have to worry about formations with 5 good flankers.

I question whether or not C-3PO was specifically designed to pair with Chewie. After all Chewie stuck by C-3PO when he got dismantled in cloud city. That makes him and Han the two characters that Chewie displayed the closest bond to.

I like that! Chewie saved C-3P0 on cloud city and now C-3P0 keeps chewie alive!