I usually run two interceptors in my swarms and they have historically been brutal against Falcons. I would like to see how they do against this new breed of Falcon. It will live longer but it doesn't seem like two evades will be that big a deal against 14 red dice.

I usually run two interceptors in my swarms and they have historically been brutal against Falcons. I would like to see how they do against this new breed of Falcon. It will live longer but it doesn't seem like two evades will be that big a deal against 14 red dice.

A well-designed and well-flown swarm--that is, one that's adept at blocking and focus fire--demolishes a Falcon in no more than 3 rounds, and even with really good shooting on Han/Chewie's part, that typically leaves enough to take out whatever escorts are left. They can struggle with double Falcon lists, though, and I think a Falcon/Corran list like the one overdesigned is thinking about (and which I saw in action this weekend in Denver) might be a problem for similar reasons.

So what are the counters?

Outmaneuver which negates C3 except at range 3. Really only viable though on a few ships. You can put it on Interceptors and Phantoms, but most would prefer PTL on Ints and VI on Phantoms. Both ships do not do well against Falcons. The Defender is an option, but your at a minimum of 38 and 40 points respectifully. FS with Kath or Boba can run it. Still expensive though and both have crappy abilities. For Rebels you got a few more options to run Outmaneuver, but then again their ships aren't as maneuverable.

Swarms, of course if you run into a Phantom list you are in trouble. I think a Z swarm with a few missiles might be a better option. Wait til he uses up his C3 for the round and hit him with some concussion missiles or even IPM. Cracken will help here to pass Focus too.

HLC or Ordnance... Expensive but they can put out decent damage and can overcome an evade.

Blocking. Send a few low PS pilots in its path. Easier said than done though. The Falcon has a silly good dial.

Any others?

So what are the counters?

My preference would be ordnance. There's a list archetype that went around the MI/OH regional metagamefor a while that just cleans a Falcon's clock--Jonus backing up wingmen with Cluster Missiles, plus other ordnance and upgrades to taste, thinks it's cute that you can cancel an extra 2 hits. Proton Rockets will help, too.

I also played a Han/Gold/Rookie list on Saturday with double Firesprays and Backstabber, and it wasn't particularly close: stress from Rebel Captive shut down his Millennium Falcon title, which meant Threepio was his only reliable defense against two target-locked attacks per turn at 3-4 dice each.

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So what are the counters?

Any others?

Fire Control System is where I have my money on right now to defeat Falcons

3P0 Falcons are killing the game/have killed the small ship game. Please don't encourage their use.

How does one guaranteed evade roll wreck the game, at most it will stop one ship attacking per turn you know if they only rolled one hit.

Indeed. Focus fire on the Falcon = problem solved. C3PO and the Falcon title only guarantees 2 evades per turn, and you should be rolling at least 9 dice, if not more. It's hardly game breaking.

If you choose to focus on Chewie's support ships and leave the Falcon for the end game while he thins out your numbers, then you're really not doing it right.

I lost in my regionals to this build by making this mistake. My opponent flew the Falcon away from me initially and I paid the price for that mistake. Next time, I'll force my opponent to either leave the Falcon out of the fight while I kill his support ships or or bring all of them at me and I focus fire down the falcon.

You have a good point. Leaving a Falcon basically untouched until the end game is a recipe for disaster. It should be target number one if you see it's sporting all the new toys they have now.

If you have 0 evade due to predator would you not just roll 0 evade all the time? So you would still get C3P0 only you would always guess right.

Predator is re-roll 1 dice you may mean outmanoeuvre.

C-3PO states that you must be able to roll at least one dice before you make your prediction. With Outmaneuver, at range 1-2, the Falcon rolls 0, thus you can't trigger C-3PO.

I usually run two interceptors in my swarms and they have historically been brutal against Falcons. I would like to see how they do against this new breed of Falcon. It will live longer but it doesn't seem like two evades will be that big a deal against 14 red dice.

You say that as if you roll all 14 at the same time. You still only roll 3 at a time or there about.

I try to hit a minimum of 10 attack dice if possible in my lists. I have just come to find that lists below 10 attack dice tend to not put out enough damage, anything over 10 starts to really have the possibility of a punishing alpha strike. That's why swarms work so well. When I run a swams and mix in some interceptors they have an incredibly strong alpha strike. Up until now though there was no real counter to a well flown swarm. With the rebel ace's especially I see the old swarm being just another good list, not the dominant one.

I try to hit a minimum of 10 attack dice if possible in my lists. I have just come to find that lists below 10 attack dice tend to not put out enough damage, anything over 10 starts to really have the possibility of a punishing alpha strike. That's why swarms work so well. When I run a swams and mix in some interceptors they have an incredibly strong alpha strike. Up until now though there was no real counter to a well flown swarm. With the rebel ace's especially I see the old swarm being just another good list, not the dominant one.

I've never been comfortable using the sum of a list's attack dice as an indicator of its firepower. 10 dice could be Vader and 4 TIE Fighters, which are definitely outgunned by the 9 dice of Han Shot First. Four Y-wings with Ion Cannon Turrets have 12 dice, but their offensive output is very weak.

There are always exceptions. A good list for imperials is Firespray/Shuttle/Defender. That only has 9 dice but it has a buttload of hits and hits very hard. I am really enjoying cards like outmaneuver that have given some punch to ships like the Tie Advanced. Maybe that will shake up my paradigm.

And they said the TIE Swarm was dead with Phantoms out there... I think a TIE Swarm would eat these YTs alive! Just hope that you can get a bead on the Phantom list you'll face on the way up the tables and you'll be fine.

The only thing I would be terribly scared of when running a swarm is an Assault missile squad and those have yet to become prevalent.

Triple Firespray

You want to play a turtle game with Chewie+3PO+MF I'll make you shoot through 30 HP at 2 Agility and I'll evade every turn too As a bonus you only get 1 die reroll from predator because the BHs are PS 3 and they would also shoot before bandits/blues/rookies. Also with 2 agility there is a chance you won't get Luke later so that also helps I will gladly take one damage a turn on a Firespray to not have Luke Activate. We can then proudly tell the TO we scored 0 Points against each other (or more likely I scored 12 from offing a Z-95 in one of the last rounds just to get enough to "win")

Also You want to run Phantoms against me? I have 3 Ships with Rear Arcs, you can't dodge all of them for long.

Anything can be countered if you put aside fun and build your list to counter the Meta rather than actually fly what you would prefer to fly. Would it be fun to fly against the 3 BH of course not, would it be fun to fly a 3 BH probably not, but it would be worth it if it causes people to consider flying something besides Chewie+Luke+3P0+MF and 3 Z-95s

Yeah but phantoms are not the meta, your taking turret ships but people are not taking phantoms latest lists have shown us this, your not fighting against the meta by using turret ships you are the meta.

Yeah but phantoms are not the meta, your taking turret ships but people are not taking phantoms latest lists have shown us this, your not fighting against the meta by using turret ships you are the meta.

My first thought is turreted ships are now the meta because of the fear of the phantom. Its just more people are using the anti-meta... which now has become the meta (before it became the meta)...

Though one could argue c3-p0 could have also pushed it over the meta edge.... Though I still think its the threat of a phantom.

Once the devastator ships both sides can have turreted fun. There is no one list that is going to beat every other list. You might have to change things up because of what you find you are facing in your area. In mine when everyone was running 4 ship rebels with a lot of B-wings I didn't face that very often. We still saw many swarms. Now that we have wave 4 I am finally seeing alit of new stuff being played.

And now you know why outmaneuver is such a good card. Basically when you run into a swarm with it, your C3PO is almost useless! Fun indeed. Plus when you have a phantom with Sabetuer, you can really take advantage of chewy. It's fun

Plus when you have a phantom with Sabetuer, you can really take advantage of chewy. It's fun

Why would you put a Saboteur on a ship that already has so many things it would rather do with its actions?

A build that really gets Chewie going is as follows:

Chewbacca (42) + Predator (3) + Luke Skywalker (7) + C-3PO (3) + MF Title (2) = (57)

It's expensive, but it has high defense and consistent damage output.

The remaining 43 points also leave room for some good support ships.

It's actually 56 and with Engine Upgrade you have Fat Chewie at 60. And he is a monster.

And I'll take 3 talas to a red and a green any day.

I never understood why PTL isnt a given for chewie builds like these?

I suppose it's a matter of taste, but for me it comes down to a few things. 1, Predator is like a free action for no stress. 2, The dial on the falcon is phenomenal, but you can't take a white maneuver while stressed and still evade, and the evade action is necessary on this build anytime you will receive fire. 3, You don't need a focus with Luke and only 1 agility. 4, I find that I either want to boost to avoid fire, or evade to counter it and with the large ship base it's usually one or the other. I can remember some times that both could have been useful, but they are the tiniest minority. So taking all that into account PtL is unnecessary imho.

Plus when you have a phantom with Sabetuer, you can really take advantage of chewy. It's fun

Why would you put a Saboteur on a ship that already has so many things it would rather do with its actions?

Here is a novel concept run something the Falcon doesn't like playing against. Run a Swarm even if you don't feel like being creative. But what about the Phantom?! Who cares about it if everyone else is so preoccupied with it that all you see is Falcons.

Trying to stifle conversation on the subject on supped up Falcon's on furthers any perceived issues. Instead of telling people not to promote them because they are "killing the game" you really should be promoting discussion on them and what to bring against them. Especially if you believe they are actually "killing the game". Then again doing that takes a bit more then hyperbole.

I have and did. See: Top 4 in a Regionals with a Defender.

1 out of three lists there were Falcon lists because people wanted a 'safe' list to fly. Do you know how incredibly dull it is to fight the same evading Falcon cheese list 6 times a row in a tournament?