And castle...why would a character need to have another force user come along and say "oh by the way your force sensitive"? That makes no sense at all...did Anakin need qui-gon to tell him he was force sensitive before he became an awesome pilot, or developed the ability to predict things that was so strong his mother noticed them?

Also, as a sidenote, I just want to point out that I find the Force to cause a character to gain a lot of attention due to natural Star Was feel. I go by the 'all-or-nothing' rule; either everyone gets the cool Force, or no one does (with the latter meaning the restrictions, and the prior meaning "Have fun, kiddos!").

Not sure what your getting at... how does a singer not knowing what they sound like have anything at all to do with a force user needing someone else to train them? Not even remotely close to each other. The only way a force user could be in a similar situation was if he was blind, deaf, and dumb, and couldn't sense what his own abilities were accomplishing, it has nothing to do with natural or inborn talent, and the ability to practice or come up with new ways to use his abilities without someone standing there saying" try this".

Put another way... if you had the force, wouldn't you spend most of your waking time testing it and trying anything that you could think of? Or would you sit around not using it until someone came along and tried to teach you how "they" do it.

In most of the source material it's actually pretty clear that Jedi rounded up the force sensitives for 2 reasons, so they could make use of their talents for the order, and to train them to resist the dark side so they didn't cause trouble later. Training them to actually use their talents is just a benefit of having them all in one spot where they can keep an eye on them.

One other thing most people seem to overlook is that in several cases the various force users have said that the force guides them and speaks to them when they're calm....who's to say the living force itself couldn't teach you new powers.

T

1) GM's plot device they can let the player learn a new force power if its advances the story BUT please don't do this if its your character and you're currently the GM!

2) Nothing says the means of learning the power resides only in finding a living or force spirit tutor or a force artefact they could be relying on either oral history, ancient 2d video documentaries and actual paper books/stone tablets even waterbender scrolls which show them the style but its the user who has to figure it out.

3) How much more would it cost to learn a new force power if you don't have access to anything that would help the process?

4) How different is an Emergent from an Exile for learning new powers after all I assumed the Emergent has access to better records and maybe even teachers since thats what I thought they meant with this version of a Force User?

khaine1969,

In terms of slowing learning Force Powers, try teaching yourself to do high-level computer programming with no instructors and no checking the internet for answers when you get stumped. It's not impossible, but the process is slow and prone to the person making a number of errors as they learn via "trial and error."

To be fair, characters can already do this exact thing with no training (even out-of-career).

Not sure what your getting at... how does a singer not knowing what they sound like have anything at all to do with a force user needing someone else to train them? Not even remotely close to each other. The only way a force user could be in a similar situation was if he was blind, deaf, and dumb, and couldn't sense what his own abilities were accomplishing, it has nothing to do with natural or inborn talent, and the ability to practice or come up with new ways to use his abilities without someone standing there saying" try this".

Put another way... if you had the force, wouldn't you spend most of your waking time testing it and trying anything that you could think of? Or would you sit around not using it until someone came along and tried to teach you how "they" do it.

In most of the source material it's actually pretty clear that Jedi rounded up the force sensitives for 2 reasons, so they could make use of their talents for the order, and to train them to resist the dark side so they didn't cause trouble later. Training them to actually use their talents is just a benefit of having them all in one spot where they can keep an eye on them.

One other thing most people seem to overlook is that in several cases the various force users have said that the force guides them and speaks to them when they're calm....who's to say the living force itself couldn't teach you new powers.

T

I can sing. My voice can, at times, be very beautiful in song. However, I have a hard time trying to remember my singing voice, so I can't practice it unless I've been singing for a good amount of time and have remembered it, but by then my voice starts giving out because my singing voice involves me screaming it. Thusly, I can't practice.

But say that one day, one of my friends was able to somehow perfectly describe how I used my singing voice, allowing me to use it on demand. I could now use it whenever I felt like it, and could practice and hone it. This may seem like a load of baloney ("How do you not know how to make your singing voice if you have one?"), but this is actually a problem I have noted. I can sing, I just don't know how. But if I had a very competent trainer, I could do wonderfully (much faster than on my own).

It's actually harder with the Force, because not all Force Sensitives know then hat they have. They just call it reflexes, or some innate ability, or, in the case of one individual able to predict his opponent's moves, Blink. How can a Force Sensitive readily train the Force if he has no idea he has it? He would just say "It's this thing I do, I have no idea how." However, if a Jedi or book or Holocron said "This is how you use the Force," you'd be able to actually train it.

Of course, there are plenty of exceptions possible, and, as the PCs are supposed to be special, they could very likely be exceptions. However, if one wishes to be realistic and really consider it, they may decide to restrict themselves and say they don't know what the Force is (which also creates interesting story links as Inquisitors chase him while he has no idea what's going on; if, that is, the campaign decides to use Inquisitors).

But that's just my opinion. If you wish to play otherwise, than that's your choice. Anything could happen, and if you feel it would make more sense or be easier to allow full access, than you certainly can. To each their own.

1) GM's plot device they can let the player learn a new force power if its advances the story BUT please don't do this if its your character and you're currently the GM!

2) Nothing says the means of learning the power resides only in finding a living or force spirit tutor or a force artefact they could be relying on either oral history, ancient 2d video documentaries and actual paper books/stone tablets even waterbender scrolls which show them the style but its the user who has to figure it out.

3) How much more would it cost to learn a new force power if you don't have access to anything that would help the process?

4) How different is an Emergent from an Exile for learning new powers after all I assumed the Emergent has access to better records and maybe even teachers since thats what I thought they meant with this version of a Force User?

2) Very true.

3) Nothing mechanically, but if a player wishes to restrict the self, it may make sense narratively.

4) Emergents allow their power to be seen, while Exiles try to hide it away. Emergents will attempt to revive the Jedi Order, and bring hope to the galaxy, while Exiles may wish day and night that they hadn't ever gotten the Force (or at least hoping no one finds out that's why they keep winning at Sabaac).

8 year old Anakin didn't need a teacher to put the mind trick on 15 year old Padme.

That's at best very disturbing and bad writing.

A better analogy would have been how Anakin was able to pilot and build that pod racer yet remain in control when that rival's sabotage became obvious.

Your example of computer programming really isn't relevant at all. That's a skill that HAS to be learned... no one was ever born with the ability to program from birth (except maybe Neo) but all force users are born with it even if they never realize it.

For my example, I'm not saying that it's impossible to learn such a thing on your own, only that it's both time-consuming and difficult.

To make it clear, I'm in favor of a PC Force user being able to learn new powers without direct instruction, My only suggested restriction is that a player can't suddenly dump a bunch of XP into a power to go from not knowing it exists to near mastery in one go. As an example would be a PC wanting to learn the Move power when they didn't have it previously. Under the RAW, a PC could dump 50 XP in one shoot and get the basic power, two Range Upgrades, two Strength Upgrades, and the "hurl objects" Control Upgrade, going from not able to manipulate a credit chit to the potential to hurl small vehicles pretty far distances.

My suggestion is that without a trainer, the PC would have to break up those expenditures in that they have to wait in between sessions to buy each facet of a owner, reflecting the "trial and error" method of learning how to effectively use that aspect of the Force. So for the Move example, the the PC could buy the Move power, but would have to wait until the next session to purchase the Range Upgrade, wait until the 3rd session to buy the Strength Upgrade, after the 4th session to buy the "hurl objects" Control Upgrade, and so forth. Although, if there's a substantially large window of down-time, I'd suggest the GM allowing the PC to pick up an additional upgrade for a given power.

An Olympic-level gymnast may have the innate ability, but they require a lot of time and training to realize that ability. Or to a less extreme end, learning to drive a car. Anyone can do it, but it's something that needs to be learned, and it goes a lot faster and a lot smoother if you've got someone teaching you how to do it.

On the example of Ezra (probably Smuggler/Thief, but to earlier to tell if Emergent or Exile would work better for him), he's probably not a typical 'starting level' PC in terms of how much XP he's built on (just as Luke under the WEG system was not a beginning-tier PC) and has likely spent some of his XP on the Enhance power and picking the Force Leap series of Control Upgrades before the series/adventure proper begins. Or could be that the GM allow a little more leeway with the craziness that an Enhance-boosted Athletics check will allow.

So without some form of instructor or instruction gaining new abilities would be limited to say a new Force Power or maybe a couple of upgrades if they've been actively using that power in game?

Well its certainly a better idea way of handling that.

So without some form of instructor or instruction gaining new abilities would be limited to say a new Force Power or maybe a couple of upgrades if they've been actively using that power in game?

Well its certainly a better idea way of handling that.

My notion is that while it would take a while to advance any given power due to the "trail & error" nature of self-instruction.

In another thread, a poster noted that he had a hard cap in place that no character, Force user or otherwise, could increase a skill by more than one rank in-between sessions to again cut down on the "zero to hero" effect that could arise from a PC going from having no ranks in a skill to suddenly having 3 or 4 ranks in that skill.

I never limited access for PCs to force abilities. The expense alone was plenty of disincentive for my players.

I have no limits but I do punish force sensitives for getting caught, in Age it means you get either a Hand or Inquistor tracking you down.Also if you are seen using the force the stormtroopers shoot to kill you(Only on obvious powers not sense,influeence or foresee.),witnesses also pose a problem if they are not a part of the alliance.In other words if the Empire discovers you are force sensitive you will be hounded, if you manage to get a lightsaber it gets worse.

Including some need for training is ok imo. Most of the skills it's just assumed that players have access to both holonet journals, universities, practice ranges, practice remotes, computer simulations, etc in order to hone and increase their skills. That just goes on in the background, or not, even basic skills it can be role played or handled as an expense in some cases. It's not that it has to be, and it's easily ignored if a group likes.

In the case of the Force, there is no source of information readily at hand. Some people are graceful, smart, good hand eye coordination, but everyone gets better with formal training and they almost never become great without it. I could see requiring players to find holocrons or speak to the 'odd little lady' in the cantina that seems to know so much about lore. It's not that a player or group has to, but I would think it would make for some good sessions and fun, which I may be wrong but I thought was the point to playing RPGs?....

...And some of the best singers in history never had a single lesson.

T

And anyway there's a whole big difference between passively listening to the Force to have "Jedi reflexes" and actively calling on the Force to move a boulder. Or honing either ability to "master level."

Not to say one must have a master to learn. But, as has been said and implied here already, self-teaching is a process prone to mistakes and bad habits that a competent instructor could easily help one nip in the bud.

khaine1969,

In terms of slowing learning Force Powers, try teaching yourself to do high-level computer programming with no instructors and no checking the internet for answers when you get stumped. It's not impossible, but the process is slow and prone to the person making a number of errors as they learn via "trial and error."

To be fair, characters can already do this exact thing with no training (even out-of-career).

Thus, I've an added caveat that a PC can't raise a skill more than one rank in between sessions. It's one that the GM for one of the Star Wars games I'm in as added as well. And it's cut down on the WEG issue of PCs becoming hyper-specialized super-experts in one or two skills while ignoring everything else, as it encourages players to diversify.

Here is my idea for my force users. I currently only play with my wife and she plays a Bounty Hunter who is Force Sensitive.

As GM, it is my duty to write the story injunction with my players. Knowing the Galaxy is full of Force Users other than Members of the Jedi Order, I found it easy to create a source of study of Force Powers. I'm currently writing up a future story where my wife's character will cross paths with Ahsoka Tano. After a series of adventures allowing her realize her Force Powers and build upon then, she will stumble upon a standing Imperial bounty on Jedi and their supporters. She will hunt down this "Jedi" lead in the Outer Rim in hopes of offering her protection in trade for teaching. It will be a hard sell as Ahsoka has shed her Robes so to speak.

An entire party of player could get around a story like this, EoE or AoR. You could use a rogue Nightsister or any force user on the run from the Empire. Finding a suitable mentor is the real trick. I want the story to fun for all players so limiting them isn't my focus. Instead write a story that fleshes out the players ideas for their character. High drama can strip it as easily as you gave it. A mentors death could drive a partially trained force user to new goals. Who knows, years later they could find themselves kneeling before Grand Master Luke Skywalker at his newly build Jedi Temple. Good luck and let your imagination lead the way.

khaine1969,

In terms of slowing learning Force Powers, try teaching yourself to do high-level computer programming with no instructors and no checking the internet for answers when you get stumped. It's not impossible, but the process is slow and prone to the person making a number of errors as they learn via "trial and error."

To be fair, characters can already do this exact thing with no training (even out-of-career).

Thus, I've an added caveat that a PC can't raise a skill more than one rank in between sessions. It's one that the GM for one of the Star Wars games I'm in as added as well. And it's cut down on the WEG issue of PCs becoming hyper-specialized super-experts in one or two skills while ignoring everything else, as it encourages players to diversify.

Do you have a similar rule for Talent acquisition? I recently had a PC buy up a new Spec and then promptly dropped 30 XP to grab three deep into a single column right away. That seems as bad as pumping a single skill up rapidly.