Thankfully, they went with the better version of Vader.
Ultimate Fix for TIE Advanced
That's a pretty terrible idea to extend the range beyond 3. For...reasons.
I think a good, simple fix would be this:
Customized Prototype - Title (0pts)
Tie Advanced only.
The first Modifcation you use to upgrade this ship costs 3 less points.
That's it. It avoids the five Advanced thing that people feel will be a problem, it doesn't involve any +attack shenanigans.
And it isn't as limited (read lame) as a title/modification that allows a free FCS - that's just dumb too. If need-be, just make the mod a clone of FCS, but for advanced only...
And finally, it fits the fluff well. The ship is supposed to be an advanced, slightly personalized test-bed fighter.
Oh. And one last note: why three points? Because that way Vader still have to pay a minimum for the more expensive mods like engine or shields. This could easily be two points though if three was too much.
Why is a free FCS "lame"?
The generics are overcosted by 4 points, so -2 cost and +FCS is (almost) what it needs to become viable. Cluster Missiles would suddenly be good on them, and they would be unique in this capability. Imagine that! TIE Advanced came standard with Cluster Missiles in Rogue Squadron, so it even makes sense from a background perspective. Making it -1 for Vader simultaneously fixes the issue of making him the only TIE Advanced that people want to take, ever.
Your suggestion doesn't help the TIE Advanced enough. The default modification will be hull upgrade, so all it accomplishes is turning the TIE Advanced into a 21 point 2/3/4/2 ship. That stat line is still only worth 18.7 points at PS2. And Vader would still be the only (semi) viable pilot.
The simplest is Close to what someone stated above.
Title: Unique - Tie Advanced Only (So no Vader)
Cost: 3 Points
Add +1 to your Attack Value
Edited by eagletsi111Or just make a modification for all ships:
Modification: Laser Boosters
Cost: 5 Points ( i figure since engine, hull and shields all cost about 4 each it makes sense)
Desc: Any ship with 2 or less attack gains +1 to it attack value (maximum of 3)
Or both of them
Title: Unique - Tie Advanced Only (So no Vader)
Cost: 3 Points
Add +1 to your Attack Value
Edited by eagletsi111Lastly perhaps something like this as a modification for all ships:
Limited
Modification: Streamlined
Points: -1
Remove one upgrade from your upgrade bar
Lastly perhaps something like this as a modification for all ships:
Limited
Modification: Streamlined
Points: -1
Remove one upgrade from your upgrade bar
DISLIKE!
Sigh, I really don't think it is a good idea to make Vader's x1 flavor into something rules related. As rules lawyers can make a big issue out of it. Cluster Missiles are enough of an issue... Also, the attack die boost is the most boring and uncreative option there is.
As for the TIE Advanced, I do think Major Juggler's idea is way, way too much. I played against someone who used Vader, Maarek, a Tempest, and a Storm pilot. Now, this was her first game, so I won very easily because she did not know how to maneuver. But man, was it a pain to kill. The Advanced is a tanky ship. Yes, I easily won, but it was annoying. 1-2 pts overcosted at most. And Vader is no where near close to being overcosted.
People have just really gotten it into their mind that the Advanced is bad. And it has sort of built up over time as more ships are released. It is not the ideal ship to use in most cases, sure. But the hate has gotten to hyperbolic proportions.
As for the TIE Advanced, I do think Major Juggler's idea is way, way too much. The Advanced is a tanky ship. Yes, I easily won, but it was annoying. 1-2 pts overcosted at most. And Vader is no where near close to being overcosted.
Citation please. Where are you coming up with that value?
And please defend and quantify why my idea is "way way too much".
Likewise, you imply that you know something about the MathWing numbers that I don't, which currently clearly indicate that the TIE Advanced is overcosted by 4 points relative to an Academy TIE.
Coming up with a random number based on a sample size of one game is not meaningful or defendable in any way shape or form. I have done my homework. Now do yours. ![]()
Well, it's not math, sure. But I am playing with Vader a LOT more than I used to. It is helping me gain an appreciation for the ship. I will acknowledge that maybe the Advanced was costed with Vader in mind.
There is more to this game than math.
Even Vader is overcosted a little. Sadly you rarely see him make it to top tables at Regionals. It would be great if he could be buffed. (and the generics more so)
Also, while we are in the nieghborhood, I would change the Squad Leader EPT to:
Squad Leader. Unique.
Cost: 3 points.
Action: Chose up to two ships at range 1-2 that have a lower pilot skill. Each of the chosen ships may immediately perform a free action.
As currently written, squad leader costs 2 points to simply MOVE one action from an ace pilot to a generic. That's... just not a good deal. The above change follows the standard of 1 free action costing 3 points, it's contextual, and still has a tradeoff: you would rather aces have actions than generics.
Oh, and it would be great on Vader! ![]()
I have enough faith in my search skills that I'm confident I could find what I was looking for before someone got around to answering a question posted here. So yes, I would spend the time right then and there rather than wait for someone to respond.
So, is it time to talk about Y-Wing Aces again, or is it too soon?
Are you also confident enough in your skills to just overlook a topic you have no interest in? I genuinely enjoy your advice and your experience in this game but I disagree on this point. 1st there is no rule against double posts and 2nd is it really that big of a deal? I mean there are seriously so many other things to complain about that are more serious and yet certain people (not saying you) insist on badgering new posters about this subject. There are kind posts made giving a brief answer and then telling the poster to see x topic here which is an awesome way to approach it. But simply telling them things like "not this topic again" or "use the search function" not the best way in my opinion. Just ease up on it it's a Star Wars community just relax and be courteous to others.
Again nothing personal just another opinion is all.
I also agree with eaglets 111 that is a super simple and easy fix to it. Nothing complicated either.
Here's an idea, that's even sort of lore based, and covers a few complaints. What if the Advanced got a new Pilot, sort of like the Royal Guard Interceptor (what basically amounts to a pretty good deal compared to the next guy down). This would represent, perhaps, that Advanced pilots stuck around a lot longer and so there was a relatively large ratio of skilled pilots.
Generic Veteran Advanced Pilot:
24 points, PS 6, EPT and Missile upgrade slots
This obviously doesn't address the base concern, but it is a very different kind of ship than either side has access to. It could be an interesting Ordnance carrier because its PS is high enough to get Target Locks on a lot of stuff. It grants an EPT so you can upgrade damage with the likes of Outmaneuver, Predator, PTL, or just VI, if desired. It's still going to be a bit overpriced, but it's something that isn't really in the game right now. With something like this, you could have an EPT that was "TIE Advanced Only". It would be undercosted, and take advantage of the Advanced's strengths, while boosting the named pilots also.
I'd like to see the Advanced get some ship-based ability to help friendly ships. Its supposed to be a command ship, after all. Maybe something similar to Howlrunner, but for evades.
Part of the problem I think with Maarek is the Way shields interact with crits. If you either still drew damage cards and discarded a shield token to discard the damage card and direct hits would require 2 Shield tokens to discard, or just out right made crits cancel 2 Shields instead of 1 it certainly would make getting through shields easier for Maarek's ability to be used. (Of course Chewbacca being so popular really doesn't help Maarek either unless you have a Saboteur handy)
The issue with Maarek's ability is two fold. Getting past the shields is only the first part. How crits work now are fine. Crits are still a dangerous issue as you wear a ship down. The second issue is that his ability sadly isn't that great with the standard damage deck. There is some utility, but it is hardly great when you are only going through 1/11 of the damage deck. Crit fishing is still a bit unreliable. Which is why I like him in Epic. Going through a third of a huge ship's deck is sure to cause some issues.
It's lame and stupid to say that it can equip a free FCS because it's adding a card to say that you can equip this specific other card. If FCS is the only option then save space/time/cards and just make the new card an FCS that has Advanced Only and is free. Less work, less overhead.
Fortunately I'm fairly confident that FFG isn't going to be stupid enough to print a card that will require them to put another card (FCS) in the pack as well. They're pretty stingy with their cards per pack as it is.
It's lame and stupid to say that it can equip a free FCS because it's adding a card to say that you can equip this specific other card. If FCS is the only option then save space/time/cards and just make the new card an FCS that has Advanced Only and is free. Less work, less overhead.
That's fair. It doesn't change the balance at all, its purely cosmetic. I would also prefer that if FFG went that route they would print the FCS text on the new card. For house rules it is easier to just toss a FCS on the table next to the TIE Advanced.
If that's the direction we wanted to go, why not just have a card that allows you to equip a free systems upgrade? Then you have some choice in how you upgrade your advanced.
The free firecontrol may balance but it's not very thematic...
If that's the direction we wanted to go, why not just have a card that allows you to equip a free systems upgrade? Then you have some choice in how you upgrade your advanced.
I was aiming to give the Advanced additional damage output to help buff it, without opening up the can of worms that Advanced Sensors shenanigans can bring. You could give it the System Upgrade slot, and specify that any equipped System Upgrade would be at a -2 discount. But do we really want / need a full system upgrade on it? Personally I don't think it is necessary.
The free firecontrol may balance but it's not very thematic...
I don't know - I think it is. The TIE Advanced has a better Targeting system than the standard TIE, and it makes Cluster Missiles very good on them, which they were known for using.
Edited by MajorJugglerYour suggestion doesn't help the TIE Advanced enough. The default modification will be hull upgrade, so all it accomplishes is turning the TIE Advanced into a 21 point 2/3/4/2 ship. That stat line is still only worth 18.7 points at PS2. And Vader would still be the only (semi) viable pilot.
MajorJuggler, I'm curious what your costing formula is. The system I use would put a 2/3/4/2 PS2 ship at 25 points.
Your suggestion doesn't help the TIE Advanced enough. The default modification will be hull upgrade, so all it accomplishes is turning the TIE Advanced into a 21 point 2/3/4/2 ship. That stat line is still only worth 18.7 points at PS2. And Vader would still be the only (semi) viable pilot.
MajorJuggler, I'm curious what your costing formula is. The system I use would put a 2/3/4/2 PS2 ship at 25 points.
It needs some tweaking for durability based on number of hits required to kill a ship rather than just average damage numbers, but here's a quick formula for calculating just the stat line jousting value at PS1:
12*( {attack power} * {durability} )^0.52
attack power =
2 dice = 1
3 dice = 1.76
4 dice = 2.63
durability = {defense coefficient} * (shields*1.15 + hull)/3
defense coefficient =
0 agility = 0.43
1 agility = 0.55
2 agility = 0.73
4 agility = 1.39
I think I was quoting 0.71 above for 2 defense dice coefficient. Oops. It's meta-dependent anyway, but you get the idea.
So 2/3/4/2:
12*(1*1*(2*1.15 + 4)/3)^0.52 = 17.7 @ PS1
Edit: Also, think for a second: your system would say that doubling a TIE Fighter's hit points would more than double its cost? That doesn't make any sense at all. At that point you would clearly be better off simply buying a 2nd TIE Fighter, still getting twice the durability, but getting twice the attack output as well.
Edited by MajorJugglerThe idea I have as it's kinda fluff based ( the advance we all know and love is the vader special with 2 wingman)
Tittle tie advance
Advanced systems target lock 0pts
when a tie advance target locks a ship up to two tie variant ships at range 1 may acquire a free target lock on the same ship.
Helps with the damage output, fits the movie fluff kinda pluss fits the theme of the advance having a target lock and is more advanced than other tie variants
TIE Adv. Modification for 1 point:
When a Secondary Weapon (Missile) attack is performed from this ship, instead of discarding the missile as instructed, discard this card instead.
I actually like that idea a lot. Advanceds seem to be designed to be ordnance carriers, and a couple of shots would help mitigate their lousy attack, high cost of missiles, and give them something to do with all their durability. They would have a similar number of secondary weapon shots as a bomber for the points, and be a bit tougher. Bombers would retain some of their own utility, still.