Hi all,

I've been playing around with echo a bit lately, trying out all sorts of combos to see what works best. I'm sure others of you have been doing the same, so I thought it might be good to share what we've found works.

Personally I've tried outmanoeuvre, advanced sensors, FCS, PtL, ACD and SPA. not yet given the crew slot a try out so of anyone has please let know what works.

anyway, here's what I've found out:

ACD vs SPA: I initially thought the accelerator had a mathematical edge, but I'd not realised the power of being able to decloak and attack every turn. I did find that 4 dice without tokens can whiff every now and then, the real strength of echo is in dodging arcs anyway.

Advanced Sensors vs FCS: when I had advanced sensors without PtL I found I didn't use it, wanting to keep the action until the end to see whether I can get out of arcs so that I know whether I need to decloak or not. In a limited number of occasions I might have had some benefit from a pre-manoeuvre barrel roll, but mostly I found I just wasn't using it. With ptl I was using it to do crazy action shenanigans, followed by a green manoeuvre to relieve stress, but see below for what I thought of ptl. Similarly I found FCS wasn't that useful for most of the game. Firstly, Echo is very capable of getting into range 1 and one-shotting most small ships. And when he can't, the HLC defender I run alongside him can usually finish them off and the lock is wasted. Secondly, I find if I'm dodging arcs as best I can I have to flit between targets. It might not be the best strategy to let ships live, but if I can keep echo out of arcs he's likely going to win me the game in the long run.

I've not tried the jammer, has anyone tried it? how was it?

PtL vs Outmaneuver: PtL was a lot of fun doing all the crazy action stuff with advanced sensors... focus, barrel roll, decloak, manoeuvre to remove stress, then attack and get to cloak and evade. However, I have found that the most useful manoeuvres with echo are the hard turns, and limiting him to green manoeuvres makes him predictable, despite the barrel roll and decloak. Outmaneuver, on the other hand, is really good. I got to use it with almost every attack, and it really does make a difference.

Again, I've not tried VI, as is don't own a copy, but in all the games I've played it wouldn't have made a difference. If there's a pilot with PS > 6 I've made them top priority for arc avoidance, whilst the one list that really hurts is Han shoots first, against which VI makes no difference to echo.

Anyway, that's what I've tried so far, but I'm thinking about adding in a crew upgrade. what have people tried? What works? My initial thoughts are that the rebel captive might be good vs HSF, but otherwise useless given how I fly. Gunner could be good, but expensive. Might a navigator or Intel operative be useful, or if I learn to fly it right will it just not matter?

Anyway, over to you lot. What have you been using, and how have you found it?

Cheerio,

Ben

cool findings!

(would contribute but I haven't played a phantom yet)

In my (limited) experience with the Phantom I feel VI is too good to pass up on.

The biggest threat (apart from a certain no-brain ship with 360 degree all ranges turret) is enemy PS9 (or higher)

With this in mind I paired Echo (ACD/VI) up with Soontir (PTL/shield) with backstabber and an obsidian. 2 pts for ini-bid.

This way Soontir deals with the high PS/is a second serious threat.

Whisper I tried with 2 shuttles (one gunner/engine, one fcs/hlc/engine)

Both 'worked.' But not 100% happy about it.

This pretty much summarize my own experience with Echo. I'd still say that VI has a place but outmanouver is a very strong contender.

I run Echo + VI + FCS + Gunner.

Howlrunner + Stealth , 3x APs

I make FCS work with Gunner, If i get a bad roll i don't spend my focus and let it be evaded, then on the second turn I can get 4-5 dice with TL + focus In some crowded games you might get the Howlrunner aura:

I once had 5 dice 1 hit -> rerolled into 0 hits -> gunner + fcs -> 5 hits with crits mixed in = insta-kill on a cloaked interceptor.

Outmaneuver would be a solid choice for EPT if Echo didn't need PS8 as badly as it does. I'm still debating on my loadout for our Regionals tomorrow, I would feel better with Outmaneuver if I had Recon Specialist or Rebel Captive and Sensor Jammer for the added defense.

Echo + Outmaneuver + Rebel Captive + Sensor Jammer + ACD

or

Echo + Outmaneuver + Recon Specialist + Sensor Jammer + ACD

but both of these cut into the mini-swarm cost, so I would have to drop Howlrunner's stealth. I guess Echo's loadout depends on two factors:

1) Agility vs HP of enemies

2) Characteristics of high PS or turred-based enemies

For instance, I expect to trigger Gunner on a 3-agility enemy, not on a B-wing. At most, I could trigger it with a lower-than-average roll against an X-wing. So Gunner is there to protect me from 3+-agility enemies that the mini-swarm would have trouble with. That's also why FCS is good, to really punch through their defense.

Sensor Jammer would be good against Han for example, since he's obligated to use focus, otherwise he loses 1 dice.

Recon Specialist would be good against more than one low-ps Y-wing

I'm throwing a lot of ideas here, I haven't pieced them together yet , it's definitely an interesting topic.

The Han list I played against had marksmanship, so the jammer would have been useless. With the gunner marksmanship was actually really good.

Try echo loaded out like this:

Outmaneuver, sensor jammer, ACD, rebel captive.

She's a beast.

Try echo loaded out like this:

Outmaneuver, sensor jammer, ACD, rebel captive.

She's a beast.

At 44 points Echo better be a beast.

What do you run with this Echo build?

Outmaneuver won't mean anything when echo is dead.

VI I'd really the best way to go.

An experienced opponent will be able to have a pretty good idea where echo will go.

Having her at a ps 6 means a lot more ships will move after her abs shot before her

Equaling a dead echo

It's very tempting to over-upgrade Echo. I'd recommend strongly resisting this temptation. You need other ships in your squadron, and although Echo is great, it won't win you the game alone. I run him with three upgrades: Advanced Cloaking Device, Veteran Instincts and Intelligence Agent. Six points of upgrades, leaving you more points for the list. ACD and VI are must-haves, IMO, and Intelligence Agent is for those games where you face a Han or Wedge/VI or someone else w/ higher PS. Yes, it doesn't come into play all that often, but when it does, it can be crucial. Seems like the best use of a single point to me.

Try echo loaded out like this:

Outmaneuver, sensor jammer, ACD, rebel captive.

She's a beast.

At 44 points Echo better be a beast.

What do you run with this Echo build?

fel w/ ptl

doom shuttle

The Han list I played against had marksmanship, so the jammer would have been useless. With the gunner marksmanship was actually really good.

Sensor jammer would work in that scenario if you manage to block Han for a turn or two with APs.

Try echo loaded out like this:

Outmaneuver, sensor jammer, ACD, rebel captive.

She's a beast.

At 44 points Echo better be a beast.

What do you run with this Echo build?

Whisper with SJ, VI, ACD, tactician

AP

It is kineticOperator's build, and it is nasty. Stress and sensor jammer combined with a blocker.

If you don't intend on taking Veteran Instinct on Echo, you should really consider taking Intelligence Agent as a crew. This way, you can see where the higher PS pilot will be and move accordingly.

I can see the wisdom in VI. It's just not an option for me currently. That said, on the evidence of the games I've played with echo so far, it wouldn't have made a large amount of difference as the rest of my list was quite capable of dealing with the small number of PS 7-8 pilots I've come across, whilst vs HSF being PS 8 would have made no difference.

Still, it's a small sample, so I'll have to see if experience can change my opinion.

Cheerio,

Ben

Not to throw in the proverbial wrench, but PtL is really not a good choice for any Phantom as if you're stressed you can't cloak/decloak which is the whole point of Phantoms.

I have had luck with VI, Recon Specialist, and ACD on Echo. Also, a VI, ACD, Echo paired with a VI, ACD Whisper, and a supped up OGP. I have also had good results pairing SPA and Advanced Sensors together. Being able to Cloak and Decloak immediately before movement can be nifty.

Not to throw in the proverbial wrench, but PtL is really not a good choice for any Phantom as if you're stressed you can't cloak/decloak which is the whole point of Phantoms.

Well, you can decloak, as its not an action. You just can't cloak. If you are ioned, then you cannot decloack.

Not to throw in the proverbial wrench, but PtL is really not a good choice for any Phantom as if you're stressed you can't cloak/decloak which is the whole point of Phantoms.

you can decloak as this isn't an action, but not cloak. PtL works when you use advanced sensors so that you can then immediately perform a green, and/or with ACD so that you get the free cloak then get an evade to go with it.

It's not a complete no-no, but neither is it the best option overall. You can get 6 actions every 2 turns or something like, but you are limiting yourself to green manoeuvres, which in my mind isn't worth it.

Also Gunner is not really worth it as chances of not getting even 1 hit with 4 or 5 dice is unlikely.(Although chilligan's idea is intriguing) A better crew is Rebel Captive or Tactician to give out stress, because a stressed opponent is generally pretty predictable which helps you know where to put your phantom to be out of arc. And if they do not clear their stress, then they get no action, which makes them easier to kill so win-win.

The thing that worries me about tactician or rebel captive is how often I've been shot at or attacked from range 2. Captive might be good as a counter for turret lists, but I don't think tactician would come up often.

Not to throw in the proverbial wrench, but PtL is really not a good choice for any Phantom as if you're stressed you can't cloak/decloak which is the whole point of Phantoms.

you can decloak as this isn't an action, but not cloak. PtL works when you use advanced sensors so that you can then immediately perform a green, and/or with ACD so that you get the free cloak then get an evade to go with it.

It's not a complete no-no, but neither is it the best option overall. You can get 6 actions every 2 turns or something like, but you are limiting yourself to green manoeuvres, which in my mind isn't worth it.

I was under the impression that even though its not an action, you could not decloak when stressed. Not sure where I heard that. But your idea works. I just always use FCS on my phantoms, but I might try Advanced Sensors next time. I generally run Whisperer with VI, ACD, and FCS as my phantom of choice, but I might try your Echo build.

I can see the wisdom in VI. It's just not an option for me currently. That said, on the evidence of the games I've played with echo so far, it wouldn't have made a large amount of difference as the rest of my list was quite capable of dealing with the small number of PS 7-8 pilots I've come across, whilst vs HSF being PS 8 would have made no difference.

Still, it's a small sample, so I'll have to see if experience can change my opinion.

Cheerio,

Ben

Having her at ps6 means a lot more ships are going to get shots off. Especially since they will move after her which is in your opponents favor.

Without VI echo will get chewed up in competitive play

I don't doubt that against players who know what they're doing against echo it won't be as easy, but "lots"? how many ps 7+ pilots could someone field in a competitive environment? 3 at most, but more likely 1 or 2. that's then something that you can deal with using the rest of your list. Example from one of my games: Jax manoeuvred himself into position vs echo, but realised he was also in the arc of the HLC defender with a target lock on him, so he barrel-rolled, ended up out without a shot on echo. He shot the defender and took down a shield or two, then echo shot him back and the doom shuttle finished him off. Whilst echo is certainly powerful, he needs to be well supported by other threats in the list that can deal with things echo is weak against.

FCS is a good counter to turret ships, which is your main weakness.