Hey all,

Just got the Lambda and had a super fun game using the doom shuttle. Somehow I managed to avoid ALL asteroids after doing a 450 degree tour around the playmat in about 10 turns, haha. And the shuttle survived (because the opponent was focusing on my Echo and killed my Bounty Hunter first).

Anyway, gonna "graduate" to the Buzzsaw and Dogfighter next. I've read a LOT of threads here and played around with all the permutations of these two builds, and here's what I want to try next. The question here is, what should I take for my last 20-24 points? I didn't see any threads about this, so apologies if someone asked it already. Just point me to the thread and we can ignore this one. =)

Here are my two builds.

Buzzsaw

OGP + FCS + Weapons Engineer + Gunner + ST321 Title + Engine Upgrade (38)

Vessery + Outmaneuver + Engine Upgrade (42)

20 pts left

The idea is to start the game with 2 target locks (the most likely targets for Vessery, and have Vessery go hunt. If this is the case, then FCS is overkill so I would have 22 pts left.

I can also get rid of the ST321 title and keep FCS to get my target locks and give Vessery his. Either way, I'll have 22-23 points, not enough for 2AP.

Question is, should my 3rd ship be:

Dark Curse + Targeting Computer (and keep the original build above), OR

Backstabber with Shield upgrade (maybe drop FCS or ST321 title), OR

Royal Guard Pilot

NEXT:

Dogfighter

OGP + AS + EU + HLC + RC (38)

BH + Gunner + EU (42)

20 pts left

The idea is two offensive ships plus a flanker of some sort. Again, Rebel Captive could be overkill, but it could keep the OGP alive longer. I could get 3 points from that.

Same 3 choices for 3rd ship:

Dark Curse + Targeting Computer (and keep the original build above), OR

Backstabber with Shield upgrade (Drop Rebel Captive for Tactician or Merc Copilot), OR

Royal Guard Pilot (drop Rebel captive)

Thoughts? Advice? Is one list better than the other for a tournament? I'm just hoping I have enough firepower in a 60-70 min round and can handle things from 3 Amigos to Han+2B/2X/3Z lists.

Thanks!

I'm not capable of answering this at 1am. But if the shuttle calls... Lambda City answers.

Arlight.

Buzzsaw: The way you're building it makes a lot of sense with Vessery. I'd suggest rolling something like this:

I've actually been considering running Vessery with either Adrenaline Rush or VI with a pair of buzzsaw shuttles.

23 pts?

Gamma + flechette+ seismic

100 points

Pilots

------

Omicron Group Pilot (33)

Lambda-Class Shuttle (21), Fire-Control System (2), Weapons Engineer (3), ST-321 (3), Engine Upgrade (4)

Colonel Vessery (39)

TIE Defender (35), Engine Upgrade (4)

Backstabber (16)

Academy Pilot (12)

As far as the Dogfighter (in my mind my favorite Shuttle) I'd suggest this along your archetype:

100 points

Pilots

------

Omicron Group Pilot (38)

Lambda-Class Shuttle (21), Advanced Sensors (3), Heavy Laser Cannon (7), Rebel Captive (3), Engine Upgrade (4)

Bounty Hunter (38)

Firespray-31 (33), Gunner (5)

Academy Pilot (12)

Academy Pilot (12)

thanks for the advice!

For Buzzsaw, without Gunner on the OGP, would I still need FCS? I can just use my ST321 and Weapons Engineer to get all my TL needs, right?

Also, I'm a little worried about not having enough firepower with Outmaneuver removed from Vessery AND Gunner removed from the OGP. Does adding an extra Academy Pilot add to that?

For Dogfighter, that's a cool suggestion! Hopefully without Engine Upgrade on the BH it won't be too bad. The first game I tried the Doom Shuttle was with the 3 Amigos (Turr, Soontir, and Whisper with VI), the BH could not get even one shot off without EU.

23 pts?

Gamma + flechette+ seismic

I was actually considering that. Not sure if Flechette is the best choice since it's mainly about stressing? What about Concussion Misisles or Proton Torpedoes?

Concussion is my go to but if you're looking at 2 upgrades for 5pts there aren't a ton of options. Flechette is still a 2 dice upgrade at range 3 and a 1 dice upgrade at range 2 AND auto stress.

First time you rock them with flechettes at range 2 and drop a bomb in front of them and Kturn 2nd round of engagement and now they can't Kturn you'll be happy with the combo.

100 points

Pilots

------

Omicron Group Pilot (33)

Lambda-Class Shuttle (21), Fire-Control System (2), Weapons Engineer (3), ST-321 (3), Engine Upgrade (4)

Colonel Vessery (39)

TIE Defender (35), Engine Upgrade (4)

Backstabber (16)

Academy Pilot (12)

As far as the Dogfighter (in my mind my favorite Shuttle) I'd suggest this along your archetype:

100 points

Pilots

------

Omicron Group Pilot (38)

Lambda-Class Shuttle (21), Advanced Sensors (3), Heavy Laser Cannon (7), Rebel Captive (3), Engine Upgrade (4)

Bounty Hunter (38)

Firespray-31 (33), Gunner (5)

Academy Pilot (12)

Academy Pilot (12)

thanks for the advice!

For Buzzsaw, without Gunner on the OGP, would I still need FCS? I can just use my ST321 and Weapons Engineer to get all my TL needs, right?

Also, I'm a little worried about not having enough firepower with Outmaneuver removed from Vessery AND Gunner removed from the OGP. Does adding an extra Academy Pilot add to that?

For Dogfighter, that's a cool suggestion! Hopefully without Engine Upgrade on the BH it won't be too bad. The first game I tried the Doom Shuttle was with the 3 Amigos (Turr, Soontir, and Whisper with VI), the BH could not get even one shot off without EU.

23 pts?

Gamma + flechette+ seismic

I was actually considering that. Not sure if Flechette is the best choice since it's mainly about stressing? What about Concussion Misisles or Proton Torpedoes?

I actually missed that I forgot the gunner. I would switch the gunner from the BH to the Buzzsaw.

Ok third try. I can read I swear... you're right the gunner is missing on the buzzsaw. I like the play between weapons engineer, FCS, Gunner, and Vessery.

Lets try this for size... 23 points is a rough spot for Imperial.

Concussion is my go to but if you're looking at 2 upgrades for 5pts there aren't a ton of options. Flechette is still a 2 dice upgrade at range 3 and a 1 dice upgrade at range 2 AND auto stress.

First time you rock them with flechettes at range 2 and drop a bomb in front of them and Kturn 2nd round of engagement and now they can't Kturn you'll be happy with the combo.

Ahh, very good point. I like the evilness of that move. The only thing is for Rebels they can do 1 green, so the flechette will have to be at range 1 (thus no more dice upgrade) for the bomb to get the person in range. I guess as a surprise it may work and hope that they do a 2 forward green. It's almost better NOT to stress them and hope they do a 3 or 4 K turn, no?

I actually missed that I forgot the gunner. I would switch the gunner from the BH to the Buzzsaw.

Hmm, unfortunately the Gunner is in the Dogfight build and that OGP won't need a Gunner, right?

EDIT: nevermind, just saw your next post. replied too early. =)

Ok third try. I can read I swear... you're right the gunner is missing on the buzzsaw. I like the play between weapons engineer, FCS, Gunner, and Vessery.

Lets try this for size... 23 points is a rough spot for Imperial.

==================

[unnamed Squadron]

==================

100 points

Pilots

------

Colonel Vessery (39)

TIE Defender (35), Engine Upgrade (4)

Omicron Group Pilot (38)

Lambda-Class Shuttle (21), Fire-Control System (2), Gunner (5), Weapons Engineer (3), ST-321 (3), Engine Upgrade (4)

Gamma Squadron Pilot (23)

TIE Bomber (18), Flechette Torpedo (2), Ion Pulse Missiles (3)

Interesting. I like that you and Rakky are both suggesting the bomber. The only thing is too bad you can't fire the Flechette and Ion on the same turn, but at least it gives you options on whether you want to stress or ionize the enemies to help Vessery and the Buzzsaw out. I like it!

Hey if they want to 1 green and just eat a round of me getting free shots on thier backside that's a win. Next round I'm stress free and acting while they are either kturning, dead, or engaging elsewhere.

Also. You have the defender. Inability to Kturn pretty much ensures they never have a shot on them again if jousting or if you flanked, you know they have hard turn. Create some rough situations for them.

Edit: I need a nap.

In other news, I don't really think the ST-321 is adding that much. I get the point of WE is that you can take a lock on your target, and a lock on whomever you want Vessery shooting at, so he gets a lock (next turn) too. If you drop the ST-321, you now have 26 points to play with... And I'm almost thinking about putting Decoy on Vessery (or ST if you want)... That way, your shuttle can shoot first, use the FCS to gain a lock on both his target and whomever Vessery (if you're not focus firing, which you should be) is going to shoot. Then Vessery can TL+F his attack (and if gunner ever kicks in on the shuttle, you have a TL+F with him too).

Then with the remaining 24 points, you can either take 2 academies, or 1 Saber w/ PTL

Thanks for all the suggestions. Just played half a game with a friend (he had to run) and here are some thoughts.

My final list with Buzzsaw (I'll use Dogfighter next time)

99 points

I decided to lower the bomber to Scimitar so I can have him fly with the OGP and choose who to move first if I want to bump the shuttle or get out of the way. Adding VI on Vessery allowed him to go last (I chose to lose initiative) against Ten Numb.

My friend took a 3 B-wing list with 2 Blues and Ten Numb loaded out (Predator, Proton Torpedoes, etc...)

the Buzzsaw was pretty good, but I didn't fly him correctly so only got to shoot every other time. I agree with Khyros that the ST321 is not that useful. I did the 2 locks I wanted at the beginning and after that never really found a time I would use it again since the OGP was in the middle of the battle and can target anyone he wants. The one useful part is the Vessery was fighting another ship that was out of the OGP range, so without the ST-321, Vessery would have to stay closer to the shuttle.

The bomber... SUCKED... It died without firing off either missile/torpedoes. Everyone focused fired on him, and the first time I got a Blinded Pilot so I couldn't shoot the ordnance. The second time I had to do a 5K turn and ended up bumping my OGP barely, got stressed and facing the wrong way, and then died.

I need to think about what to do with the Bomber.

But yeah, now I have 25 points to play with, so I'll try RGP+PTL or Saber+PTL if I want initiative with 99 points.

Vessery with VI is pretty great.

Thanks for all the suggestions. Just played half a game with a friend (he had to run) and here are some thoughts.

My final list with Buzzsaw (I'll use Dogfighter next time)

99 points

40 points

Colonel Vessery

Veteran Instincts, Engine Upgrade

38 points

Omicron Group Pilot

Fire-Control System, Weapons Engineer , Gunner, ST-321, Engine Upgrade

21 points

Scimitar Squadron Pilot

Flechette Torpedo, Ion Pulse Missiles

I decided to lower the bomber to Scimitar so I can have him fly with the OGP and choose who to move first if I want to bump the shuttle or get out of the way. Adding VI on Vessery allowed him to go last (I chose to lose initiative) against Ten Numb.

My friend took a 3 B-wing list with 2 Blues and Ten Numb loaded out (Predator, Proton Torpedoes, etc...)

the Buzzsaw was pretty good, but I didn't fly him correctly so only got to shoot every other time. I agree with Khyros that the ST321 is not that useful. I did the 2 locks I wanted at the beginning and after that never really found a time I would use it again since the OGP was in the middle of the battle and can target anyone he wants. The one useful part is the Vessery was fighting another ship that was out of the OGP range, so without the ST-321, Vessery would have to stay closer to the shuttle.

The bomber... SUCKED... It died without firing off either missile/torpedoes. Everyone focused fired on him, and the first time I got a Blinded Pilot so I couldn't shoot the ordnance. The second time I had to do a 5K turn and ended up bumping my OGP barely, got stressed and facing the wrong way, and then died.

I need to think about what to do with the Bomber.

But yeah, now I have 25 points to play with, so I'll try RGP+PTL or Saber+PTL if I want initiative with 99 points.

Vessery with VI is pretty great.

In this list I'd expect the Bomber to die every fight. It's purpose is actually to die so that vessery and the shuttle live (or unload annoying ordinance until it's gone.

I have a hard time running the shuttle with another single ship. I really like my surprise skill list

2 Royal Guard (44)

2 Black Squad with vet (30)

1Colonel Jendon (26pts)

Everything runs at PS6 which is a lot of fun.

RGP w/o PTL are neutered and can't flank as effectively. I rather drop the Blacks to Academies allowing PTL on the RGPs.

I don't see what Jendon does for the list either, other than being PS 6 and having 10 hitpoints. He can pass a TL, but then he'll be shooting unmodified.

Good point about the bomber being there to die and attract fire. I do wonder if it's scarier to have Concussion missiles on the bomber because of the damage potential, or the flechette and ion because people are afraid of stress and ion.