I was able to speak to a couple of players from my play group who went to a regional and I got a disturbing report about a possible dice manipulation that I will share here.

I would like to say first off is that I was not present to witness the described behaviour and I am getting this all second hand so bear that in mind.

The juggler's dice ability was described as this:

" The player would place the dice in his hand (just off of the table surface) and he would adjust his hand to allow them to roll and adjust in his palm until the dice were in a specific orientation. He would then quickly turn over his hand so that the dice would rotate 1 to 1 1/2 times and land showing hits. He was disproportional generating hits for his squad."

The players found out when they talked in the parking lot (either at break or after the regional when they could talk about their games) because he was generating consistent hits across his games, without any modifying what so ever (or none needed).

It was said that the dice the person was using had a dot on one surface that he wanted to have face up in his palm. (Some did not see this so are unsure if there was a dot or not)

There are two parts to this but I would like to discuss option 1 more.

1. Just the technique of flip-handing the dice - legal/ethics?

2. Spot on dice - illegal for sure as it is not standard equipment from the core set. Pretty obvious but the players weren't 100% sure that they were marked, just how he rolled the dice was what came across more.

If you play across from this how would you proceed after seeing it done?

P.S. I won't release details regarding who was suspected of this behaviour. I've kept it more to the behaviour in question than an outing of the person.

If I saw someone doing this i'd call it shady behaviour. They should use a dice cup or something.

Actually, I think I might get a dice cup anyway, I've had several ships get bumped around the table by errant dice!

Also rolling into a pile of discarded dice is another suspect one I have seen, in x-wing and 40k.

"Oooo look 2 hits and 2 crits" everytime!

Call them out on it and insist on a T/O present.

I'd politely request that he rolls the **** dice properly and if he continued his 'lucky dice ritual' I'd call a TO.

Either that or I'd start my 'defence dice ritual' of placing the dice down on the result I wanted...

'Oh look. 3 evades. again.'

Very dodgy to say the least. Demand he roll properly or you'll put an official cheating complaint in. Definitely get the TO to see this.

My thinking on this is that cheating with dice is trying to change the inherent randomness to something more probable.

If a dice roll is 99% random, but you employ a rolling method that reduces it by any amount, then you are trying to change the probability to favour you.

If you make it 2% in your favour or 100% in your favour, it is still trying to influence the outcome, and that is where cheating occurs.

It is one thing to want the outcome and a very slippery slope if you want to affect the outcome.

New product idea for FFG.

Dice Rolling Cups!

Well first thing you do when you suspect the dice are marked or have had any tampering with then is ask to see them.

I would think if someone tampered they would be hesitant to give them to you. And if so ask again, and finally bring the TO over and hopefully he'd be kicked out.

As for rolling the dice a certain way in his hand then slapping them down on the table how could you prove that he was waiting to see a specific value and rolling it in his hand?

That would sound more like accusations and bring a sore loser. Even if you were right, how would you prove it.

I'd try asking him to throw the dice as

slapping them on the table imo is not rolling.

@Krynn.

I don't think he was slapping the dice on the table. It was setting up the dice a certain side face up then turning his hand to get a consistant roll, much like a juggler tossing a pin controls the revolutions so it lands in his hand exactly the same way each time, execpt that he was controlling how the dice would land on the table. (also why I called it 'dice juggling')

With minimum height there is a much lower bounce likelyhood, and if you get the die to line up so that the blank or eye lands first and rolls into either the first or second hit then it becomes easy to see how this dice rolling scheme worked.

But still that isn't going to guarantee to roll hits every time.

The dice will still bounce I would assume and hit one another resulting in random results.

I'm not saying he wasn't trying to manipulate. Wouldn't surprise me tbh, but trying to call him on it I think would be difficult.

However if the dice were marked I'd try calling him in that.

Ask to see the dice. If he refused or seemed hesitant, I'd be really suspicious

If you were 100% certain but without evidence, bring it up with the TO

If it really bothers people, then could you not refuse to playv him?

Say that many here believe he is trying to cheat. If the majority agreed then refuse to pay him what would happen?

To the people who said "roll properly" what does that mean? In that person's mind, he is rolling "properly". Do the dice need to be shaken like a martini in order to be properly rolled? Loaded dice aside, if there's any doubt of the legitimacy of rolling dice, what would be the "proper" way to roll them?

To the people who said "roll properly" what does that mean? In that person's mind, he is rolling "properly". Do the dice need to be shaken like a martini in order to be properly rolled? Loaded dice aside, if there's any doubt of the legitimacy of rolling dice, what would be the "proper" way to roll them?

So he either finds new players / venue or changes his ways

Two things I hate most in the world are thieves and cheaters.

There is one way I like to deal with them but won't get into they here

what would be the "proper" way to roll them?

Well that would be up to the TO I'd guess. I suppose they could require a dice up or a dice tower if there was a complaint about how someone roles.

Also rolling into a pile of discarded dice is another suspect one I have seen, in x-wing and 40k.

"Oooo look 2 hits and 2 crits" everytime!

Call them out on it and insist on a T/O present.

We've seen this happen a couple times, so ever since then we eith scoot them all away, or blank them out.

What the OP mentioned is flat out cheating. It's a dice roll. It's supposed to be random. If you're doing anything that even remotely affects the outcome of the initial roll, you're trying to cheat.

To the people who said "roll properly" what does that mean? In that person's mind, he is rolling "properly". Do the dice need to be shaken like a martini in order to be properly rolled? Loaded dice aside, if there's any doubt of the legitimacy of rolling dice, what would be the "proper" way to roll them?

I'm seriously surprised someone has to ask about the "proper" way to roll dice. Shake them in your hand and cast them onto the table so they ROLL, thus generating a RANDOM result. A low altitude "hand flip" just stinks of manipulation.

Two methods I can't stand are the Slam where the player shakes them around in cupped hands then slams his hands down on the table followed a slow reveal. Wil Wheaton demonstrates this on his X-Wing video.

The other is the High Toss, where the player tosses them a foot or two up and they come raining down over the models and anything else on the table ending up scattered everywhere. While you can't get more random than this, it's damaged quite a few models over the years.

If I was playing someone that was clearly trying to manipulate the dice by pre-arranging them, at the very least I'd insist on the use of a dice cup or tower. As UnfairBanana said, if you're trying to affect the outcome, excpect to get accused of cheating, because that's exactly what you're doing.

It's called "Dice Setting", and it's not only cheating, it's quite easy to do.

Little bit harder to do with an 8 sider, but that's exactly what the described act is attempting.

There is a reason you have to hit the back wall when you play craps.

I have no idea how in a group of adults no one called this person or either the marked dice or the way in which he rolled them. Come on at least make your opponent have to cheat in a furtive manner.

Just marking the dice in anyway should earn you a DQ, as there is no reason to do so unless you are trying to do something shady with it.

We've got a guy in our group that's put a small spot on each of his dice with a sharpie marker, so he can tell they're his dice. I don't have a problem with that, because he gives them a good shake and rolls them properly. It's not being used as a marker for setting them like Sergovan suggested, and there's no weight imbalance applied.

Well riddle me this. What does it matter if he takes home his dice at the end of the day so long as he takes home the same number of dice in the end? You bring marked dice into mixed company you are just asking to cause an issue as there isn't a real reason to mark your dice in the end. It's something every player or TO would be instantly suspicious of, so while I can understand the possible innocent intent behind it, he really shouldn't be using those dice in events.

If you wanna mark them so you know which is yours and you clearly aren't manipulating them in any way, by all means, go ahead. All dice are the same, but if you REALLY want yours back, I guess that's okay.
Unless you stuck them in the oven to weight them...

New product idea for FFG.

Dice Rolling Cups!

Or Star Wars themed Dice Towers.

Or Star Wars themed Dice Towers.

That look like turbo laser towers for Death Star scenarios.

If you wanna mark them so you know which is yours and you clearly aren't manipulating them in any way, by all means, go ahead. All dice are the same, but if you REALLY want yours back, I guess that's okay.

Unless you stuck them in the oven to weight them...

My dice are strong with the Dark Side. Lots of blanks, they roll.

It's not so much a matter of the other guys making sure they get theirs back, it's more of making sure they don't get mine!

Any manipulation of dice facing in the hand before rolling should never be allowed. This is how professional cheaters "fix" their dice throws, and guys who are really good at it can toss them like a normal roll and still exert control over the outcome because of how they were held in the hand before the throw, and how much force they throw them with (controlling the number of bounces).

With D6s this can be hard to spot but I imagine with the non-standard D8s used in X-Wing it'd be quite easy to spot someone trying to set the dice to certain faces in their hand before throwing, and indeed in your description it sounds like several players spotted this guy doing it.

In a competitive setting, dice should be picked up from the table in a closed hand and cast with sufficient force that they roll several times. Anyone doing anything different (especially fiddling with the dice in their hand before rolling them) should be immediately asked to knock it off since it's highly suspicious behaviour. Likewise, slapping dice down on the table or short-dropping them from a few inches looks shady too, regardless of whether or not the player is purposely trying to cheat.

Nobody wants to be wrongly accused of cheating so nobody (except cheaters) should have a problem with being asked to roll the dice properly.

Dice setting! Yep, I was going to mention that before I saw the post with the video! My dad taught me how to do that back 30-some years ago! He was in the Army during WWII and played a lot of Craps in down time, (won a bunch of money accordingly!)

This guy is doing a similar thing only with the hits and crits and has practiced to throw them the same each time to control the rolls. I'd say it's dice tower time!