Back in my Magic The Gathering tournament days, I traveled often to events. I enjoyed running from city to city playing in large events and meeting all kinds of people who shared the same interest as me. There was and still is a circuit of tournaments put on by Star City Games. in these events they would award $5,000 in prizes. They were know as 5K's. the player turn out were between 300-700 players.

With X-Wing growing and more and more players joining all the time, could there be a 5K event for X-Wing? These events have to be run usually at convention halls and there is a cost to renting a room. So player turn out would have to be large. SCG Opens would charge $40 for entry fee so you would need a minimum of 125 players just to cover the prize money. On top of that you would need to raise enough over the prize money to pay for the venue.

This never seemed to be an issue with Star City Games events as like I said they would get 300-700 players. Just like myself many people traveled the country to play in these events. Could X-Wing draw the crowd to cover such an event?

Would you Pay a $40 fee and travel to play X-Wing all day and a chance to win a $2,000 top prize?

I...am hesitant. $40 to play is quite a bit, really, but that's understandable.

When you say running from city to city, you aren't being literal here, are ya? The wording, along with the name 5K makes me picture people running to various events with massive plano cases, which is actually an interesting picture.

I think it'd be possible. The biggest thing is the amount of traveling it would require to get that many people. It's not as popular of a game as MtG, so the playerbase is a bit thinner

I thought you were gonna suggest a race. I run a 5K about once or twice a month so I was gonna say "Sure I'm down". but 40 bucks? That's like almost 3 ships at retail price!

That depends entirely on the amount of playerbase and how well supported the scene is by FFG. Would i like it ? Sure, and streamed finals of those too.

Here i thought you meant a 5k point game.....

I'd go if the city was semi close. Don't think I'd drive anymore than 4 hours..

its not that we don't have players, its that we don't have that many players in one area. The ONLY way to do it would be single elimination, otherwise this event would be days upon days. even with a cut it would be very long, and to make things worse, you would have drops and that messes everything up. Also, we don't have 5K in prizes to give, I know Magic as some spendy cards you can get.

Overall it would be to much I think.

Aren't people already paying >$100 to play in Regionals? I've personally spent over $500 traveling (lodging, convention pass, food, flight) to 2 Regionals this year for a non-cash prize. However, once you start giving out cash prizes, you might see the worst come out in people. I'm glad this game provides unique prizes (translucent dice, alt cards, etc.) for the Premier events which in my opinion is better than a cash prize.

its not that we don't have players, its that we don't have that many players in one area. The ONLY way to do it would be single elimination, otherwise this event would be days upon days. even with a cut it would be very long, and to make things worse, you would have drops and that messes everything up. Also, we don't have 5K in prizes to give, I know Magic as some spendy cards you can get.

Overall it would be to much I think.

The Star City Events gave out Cash.

I would 100% pay for a chance to win some prize money. I love competitive stuff but that's just me.

I like 5ks. Nice way to wake up.

Aren't people already paying >$100 to play in Regionals? I've personally spent over $500 traveling (lodging, convention pass, food, flight) to 2 Regionals this year for a non-cash prize. However, once you start giving out cash prizes, you might see the worst come out in people. I'm glad this game provides unique prizes (translucent dice, alt cards, etc.) for the Premier events which in my opinion is better than a cash prize.

I'm not sure what you mean by "you might see the worst come out in people." If there are bad X-Wing players, they're certainly already here.

To the OP: I think one of the biggest stumbling blocks is the fact that we have neither the starting capital nor access to the secondary market that SCG has. Those events pull in 300-700 people, and how many of them are dropping $$$ at the side tables for more cards? A lot, obviously. But there is no secondary market for X-Wing, no way to supplement or offset the cost of the event on-site. Not unless FFG decides to print Jace, the X-Wing Sculptor in the coming months.

I honestly don't know whether X-wing could support it or not, but I certainly pray that it never does.

When you attach money - especially that much money - to an event it changes the entire feel of the game. No thank you.

I will not compete for cash prizes. I don't like the kind of player that brings out.

Aren't people already paying >$100 to play in Regionals? I've personally spent over $500 traveling (lodging, convention pass, food, flight) to 2 Regionals this year for a non-cash prize. However, once you start giving out cash prizes, you might see the worst come out in people. I'm glad this game provides unique prizes (translucent dice, alt cards, etc.) for the Premier events which in my opinion is better than a cash prize.

I'm not sure what you mean by "you might see the worst come out in people." If there are bad X-Wing players, they're certainly already here.

Yeah, people seem to have a prenotion that the higher the prize the worse people will act. I certainly don't agree with that. Like I said I have played at many of these highly compedative events with little to no exposure to to cheating and such. The people who will do these shady things will do so no matter the prize. Once they cross that moral line ( we'll call it the dark side ) there's no turning back.

Aren't people already paying >$100 to play in Regionals? I've personally spent over $500 traveling (lodging, convention pass, food, flight) to 2 Regionals this year for a non-cash prize. However, once you start giving out cash prizes, you might see the worst come out in people. I'm glad this game provides unique prizes (translucent dice, alt cards, etc.) for the Premier events which in my opinion is better than a cash prize.

I'm not sure what you mean by "you might see the worst come out in people." If there are bad X-Wing players, they're certainly already here.

To the OP: I think one of the biggest stumbling blocks is the fact that we have neither the starting capital nor access to the secondary market that SCG has. Those events pull in 300-700 people, and how many of them are dropping $$$ at the side tables for more cards? A lot, obviously. But there is no secondary market for X-Wing, no way to supplement or offset the cost of the event on-site.

Yes but money being on the line could easily drive the good ones into being hyper competitive jerks. Money may not be the root of all evil, but it is the root of a large fraction of dickishness.

I think what he means is that the fly casual attitude might start to decline. I for one agree I do not want this game venturing into Magic the Gathering territory, everywhere I have played all the communities have been nice and supportive. I do not want the thought of winning money sully that. Also no offense to any MTG players here but I have had bad run-ins with the super competitive tournament players.

At a Regional, I witnessed, first hand, a player say to his opponent "If you don't select your maneuver dials, I'm going to forfeit because you're already ahead in points" (during the planning phase with 6 mins left in the game). This was during a Top 8 match. This said player was, ironically, wearing the "Fly Casual" shirt. He also accused a few other opponents of stalling during his swiss matches.

Now, imagine if money were involved...

Aren't people already paying >$100 to play in Regionals? I've personally spent over $500 traveling (lodging, convention pass, food, flight) to 2 Regionals this year for a non-cash prize. However, once you start giving out cash prizes, you might see the worst come out in people. I'm glad this game provides unique prizes (translucent dice, alt cards, etc.) for the Premier events which in my opinion is better than a cash prize.

I'm not sure what you mean by "you might see the worst come out in people." If there are bad X-Wing players, they're certainly already here.

Rules Nazi's, who don't understand the "don't be a D-bag" clause.

"YOU BUMPED MY SHIP ONE MILLIMETER INTENTIONALLY, I DEMAND YOU BE DISQUALIFIED"

etc. This is, I hope, a severe exaggeration, but some people really ruin the fun. And at the end of the day, that's what a game should be. Fun.

At a Regional, I witnessed, first hand, a player say to his opponent "If you don't select your maneuver dials, I'm going to forfeit because you're already ahead in points" (during the planning phase with 6 mins left in the game). This was during a Top 8 match. This said player was, ironically, wearing the "Fly Casual" shirt. He also accused a few other opponents of stalling during his swiss matches.

Now, imagine if money were involved...

If money were involved, that person would still be playing. Or do you mean that perfectly nice people are going to turn into Mr. Hyde because there's money on the line? That's not a very optimistic appraisal of this community, which everyone seems to be lauding for the most part.

If I were FFG, I would focus on trying to grow the X-Wing playing populace, rather than catering to the people who are already neck-deep into the game. A 5K event, I think, would cater to the latter, and not those people who are not yet in the game, or are casual about it with only a couple of expansions and the core set.

At a Regional, I witnessed, first hand, a player say to his opponent "If you don't select your maneuver dials, I'm going to forfeit because you're already ahead in points" (during the planning phase with 6 mins left in the game). This was during a Top 8 match. This said player was, ironically, wearing the "Fly Casual" shirt. He also accused a few other opponents of stalling during his swiss matches.

Now, imagine if money were involved...

Okay, so who was the poor sportsman - the guy saying he was going to forfeit or the guy running out the clock?

If money were involved, that person would still be playing. Or do you mean that perfectly nice people are going to turn into Mr. Hyde because there's money on the line? That's not a very optimistic appraisal of this community, which everyone seems to be lauding for the most part.

And you think dropping $5,000 into the result of a game isn't going to have any effect on how people play?

Forget the X-wing community, that's not a realistic appraisal of humanity.

Okay, so who was the poor sportsman - the guy saying he was going to forfeit or the guy running out the clock?

The one running the A-Wings, clearly.

You know, I woke up this morning with 9 likes in two nonexistent threads. What the heck was everyone up to while I was asleep?

And you think dropping $5,000 into the result of a game isn't going to have any effect on how people play?

Forget the X-wing community, that's not a realistic appraisal of humanity.

I'd be inclined to respond with something substantive here, but I still recall the last debate we had about Magic. The respective philosophies of Thomas Hobbes and John Locke really need not enter into the conversation, unless we want to take this thread wildly off course.

I would be more than excited and willing to make a trip for an X-Wing 5k event. I've participated at Star City Games: Los Angeles as well as several PTQs for MtG and seeing such a huge community gather for a specific game is exciting to play in- hell, it's exciting even just to watch.

Unfortunately, there are huge problems in comparison to MtG:

- MtG has an established player base that spans two decades, where X-Wing may have thousands of players in a region, MtG has tens of thousands, if not hundreds of thousands, in a given region. Not to mention the outreach, where I was playing players from Brooklyn to South Korea at LA. I don't think X-Wing has become that established yet.

- MtG also supports about 5 key formats: Standard, Modern, Legacy, Sealed and Draft. This provides an eclectic and dynamic environment that appeals to so many more people which yields the turnouts of 5k events. After I dropped from the Standard main event, I played like 6 rounds of Commander (EDH for the hardcore MtG nards) and still had a blast AND made my money back in store credit.

- X-Wing will take up waaaaayyyy more space than MtG, which will affect the cost of renting convention halls/rooms drastically. Where you can fit about 3-4 players on 3x6 table, you have to set at least a 3x3 play area just for the field, as well as room for cards and templates on the table, plus 360 degree access to the board, and you're looking at about a 5x5 or 6x6 area for a comfortable playing space just for 2 players. Now, multiply that by 500-900 players and factor it into the cost of renting space.

- X-Wing also doesn't offer much incentive for players to meet other than just to play the game. What I mean by this is that when you go to a 5k, you're gonna be trading with other players who might have cards you don't have, you're gonna be buying and selling to the vendors to get what is necessary to play of to turn a profit, you're gonna play to win packs/store credit in multiple events so you won't come out empty handed, you're gonna go to play against celebrity MtG players who flew in from WA or drove out from Nevada or San Diego. A lot of big things for small people happen at these big events and I'm not sure if X-Wing can offer that yet.

I don't mean to be such a Negative Nancy about this, but that's the unfortunate reality. I plan on going to the next SCG: LA event just play at side events for the day. But if X-Wing were to have a huge event like this, I would happily pay $40, $50 but no more than $75 to participate in a HUGE 5k-esque event. In comparison to big time Magic, here are some things X-Wing can do to accommodate the player base for a huge, fun event:

- Support for multiple formats with smaller prize support: Have side events like 2v2 Epic tourneys, 35 point 4 man FFA-Fluffball, separate 100 point Standard tourneys for those who dropped out of the big money tournament.

- Broadcast live events: Broadcast the top 8 players throughout the tournament for the global community to spectate. A Twitch.tv feed or YouTube live feed will help boost interest in the event so that future events will have bigger turnouts.

- Celebrity appearances: If the organizer can have Billy Dee Williams or Mark Hamill show up to one of these events to spectate and sign autographs or even play in, there would probably be a higher turnout for novelty alone. Having a stand-alone table with a SW celeb that is also being broadcast is a great opportunity for fans and gamers to interact with their favorite characters. Although, this is probably the most far-fetched idea.

Anyway, just the thought of an X-Wing 5k gets me excited. Hopefully one day it will become popular enough for it to come close to MtG 5ks, but until then I'm just going to do my best to enjoy the fun, casualness of the game and the occasional LGS tournaments.