This came up in another thread, but then it got me wondering and it would be good to know for sure.

This had happened in a friendly game so really its no big deal. But I would like to know for sure for down the road

It was a 2v1 epic Game.

Anyway the other team were using a pen and paper to draw out their plans to one another.

They would do this at the table in front of me . Before and during the game.

I never really thought much of it, and probably won't even if it isnt allowed since it is a friendly game.

Plus I think I have a bit of an advantage over them since I don't have to try to coordinate with another player

But for down the road if we ever did do a official team tournament game it would be really good to know before hand.

So if my opponents are sitting across from me discussing their plan, can they use a pen and paper to help them better coordinate with one another?

In the team rules I think all it says is the teams have to plan in front of the other team. Basically it can't be done privately.

I think this rule is probably also to keep the game from slowing down.

Since the rules don't explicitly discuss that, you should probably clear it with the TO. But before you do that, you could probably avoid bothering the TO if the two teams just agree what is and isn't allowed as "table talk" and be consistent about it during any given game. Different teams might have different ideas about what's allowed. If the players agree that whispering is allowed, or all discussions must be within earshot of the other team, then so be it. If no one has a problem with a team writing things down, then it should be allowed. If both teams agree that these writings can be done in secret, or must be visible to the other team, then that seems fine to me too.

After reviewing the Epic tournament rules, it's nice to see that teammates can secretly show each other their movement dials, contradicting what's written in the rulebook. This suggests to me that secret planning is allowed to some extent, and players on both teams should agree about how far to take that until the rules are made clearer.

Communication between teammates is supposed to be verbal and in the open where opponent(s) can hear.

Does it say verbal?

I'd have to recheck the ruled but don't remember it saying that.

Well we just do friendly games so that doesn't bother me, but just want to meme sure for down the road incase we ever do get official team games going.

I hope ffg does something official for team games. That would be awesome

Communication between teammates is supposed to be verbal and in the open where opponent(s) can hear.

Yep, that's the standing rule for now. But what's weird about that is that if you can show your teammate your dial, the conversation goes like this:

Teammate 1: Okay, I'm gonna do this. [secretly shows dials]

Teammate 2: Cool. I'm gonna do this. [secretly shows dials]

[wink]

[wink]

Teammate 1: We're all set.

To me, that's secret planning. Why would that sort of thing be allowed, but you still have to do all other table talk within earshot of the other team? In for a penny, in for a pound, I'd say. For tournament play, that's strictly the way you're supposed to do it. But unless you're playing at Worlds, just do what makes the most sense for all of the players at your table and don't worry about it.

Explain to me how or why people on the same team must discuss plans aloud for the other team to hear it?

I had no idea rebels and imperials were using open channel communications among their ships.

Sorry but that's the dumbest rule I've ever heard.

How about we show the opposing teams our dials too? If they know the plans , and must be able to hear all the new planning and movements.. Why not?

Let's think about this.

1. Game is casual.

2. Opponents do something which would be allowed in a casual game, so long as all participants are in agreement.

3. Post on X-wing to ask everyone after the game is over if what happened was okay.

4. ???

5. Profit!!!!!

Good lord, really Krynn? smh

Ok, did you read what I said, or do you only partially read.

I want to know for official ffg games for down the road.

Between us I don't care, but if it is considered cheating my buddies won't do it cause even in friendly games we play as though we are playing official ffg games.

That way no bad habits form for when we do go into one.

So what is so hard to understand about that?

I can't think of a good reason for teams to be required to talk about their plans openly. If anything, it will slow down play because teams will be changing their strategies based on what they overhear.

But if that's how the rule is enforced in tournaments, what's to stop teammates from developing code words and secret gestures for everything they might want to do during play? Banana alpha six.

What about deliberate misdirection? Hey Joe, I'm thinking we need to take out that Firespray (meaning, of course, the Lambda shuttle).

I think the rules just state at the table so people don't go into other rooms to discuss, as that would kill a lot of time.

But as one said in anther thread which is what got me to start this post, one thought that drawing pictures to your team mate would be considered cheating.

I'm sure if it was even though it's a friendly game if it was looked at that way then they won't do it. I know there were some things we did wrong when we started out this game and from being on here and playing we've learned a lot. Sometimes when you think your doing something by the rules you later find out your not

They are a good bunch and they want to play by the rules.

If doing that is frowned upon by most then it would just be a good habit and help your game to learn to find another way

Like you said, talk in code.

While the EPIC Team rules do not specifically state that discussion must be in public and audible by the opponent... The rules allude to using the same base rules ("... even secretly..."). At least that is how I would rule it, no drawing but as DagobahDave said allowing dials also allows secret planning in public basically.

Regulare Team Rules Page 2

EPIC Tourney Rules Page 4

I don't like that rule about having to have discussions out in the open. Are we to believe the Empire had no secure comms?

I don't like that rule about having to have discussions out in the open. Are we to believe the Empire had no secure comms?

True but think of the scale of time in this game... a 100 pt match is probably a minute or 2 in real time tops... Each maneuver probably is a second or 2. In-depth strategy and comms is unrealistic imo.

These are rules for gameplay not thematics. It does not do the rules or game justice to try and make them fit.

From the Team Epic Rules (bold for emphasis):

Table Talk

Due to the vast number of ships each team must coordinate, table talk is

fully permitted during a Team Epic tournament. Teammates may discuss

strategy, coordinate ship movements, and even secretly show each other

their maneuver dials (these rules supersede the team rules described in the

X-Wing rulebook). However, players must endeavor to keep the game moving

at a reasonably brisk pace, and bickering will not be tolerated. Each player on

a team has final say over their own ships, actions, and maneuvers, regardless

of who is team captain.

alright, fine, with my team mate I am going to run Move #1 with ship A and move #7 with ship B.

I had thought if I ever do a team game, we would have like the quarterback wristbands with our plays on them, so we can move and point out what we were doing.

I think the rules are stated to try and keep play moving, instead of having a team leave the table after each phase to plot strategy.

These are rules for gameplay not thematics. It does not do the rules or game justice to try and make them fit.

But a rule that serves game play and theme at the same time is elegant. The problem here is that we have an inconsistent attitude toward open discussion and secret coordination. Sharing secret dials is a way to secretly coordinate actions, so why are teammates required to talk openly about their plans? Players who are really in tune with each other gain an advantage by being able to convey a lot of information with very few words, or even deliberately vague and misleading words. Let's see a TO make a ruling on that, and how long it takes the other team to explain what happened. Big waste of time.

If the goal is to keep play moving and maintain integrity with regard to competition, I think FFG should allow secret coordination. It also happens to simulate the exclusive communications that we see in the films.

The Table Talk rule doesn't prevent stalling. That's its own separate issue and you know it when you see it.

I would be fine if they simply went the same direction as they've done with/for the SW LCG game:

Teammate Communication

Teammates may look at each other’s hands and common

reserves, and communicate in any manner they desire.

Teammates may also confer on the selection of their setup

objectives.