I just got my rules and of course went to space combat (which is the same as EotE) and space ships. I just wanted to wrap my head around what it would be like to face a star destroyer in this game, well running away from actually. I don't expect PCsto kill star destroyers very often but I hope they can still show up in adventures, they are such an iconic part of Star Wars.

So tell me if I am reading the rules right. Let's say the PCs are in a chase with a star destroyer, at long range.

The star destroyer can fire twenty heavy turbo lasers (slow firing 2) so let's say seven a round a round, no other weapons can fire at long range, so I don't have to worry about all the other plethora of weapons the star destroyers have. Bit that is still seven damage 10, breach 4 shots a turn.

Now let's look at how likely they are to hit, a long range shot is three purple dice, plus the PCs will probably be doing evasive maneuvers, so upgrade one difficulty dice. Add four more purple dice since the star destroyer's silhouette.

So the imperial gunners have to overcome at least seven purple dice of difficulty. Here is where it gets really messy, imperial gunners are minions. One gunner has an agility of 2 and no skills at all. But if you remember from the movies, turbo lasers are fired by a crew, a crew of how many? If I say their are five gunners on each gun, they get to be pretty. Good shots, what if there are seven, now they have a really good chance to hit my PCs. Remember they are firing almost seven times a round.

I guess I feel like this whole situation, is both complicated and poorly defined for something that should probably b pretty common in an AoR game.

I saw a few extra action for ships with tons of shots to use, and mercifully it reduced those seven rolls to one, but they seem like bad ideas on the part of the empire since they don't increase the chance to hit, or reall increase damage. All they reall do is reduce did rolling, though while convenient, isn't a good, tactical, idea.

And I reall Ned better stats for the men manning those guns.

I am fine with a game saying that star destroyers are so much more powerful than, say a Yt-1300 that any interaction with them should be handled more dramatically than by following the rules so closely. But then why all the stats for all these big ships. Star destroyers are by no means the only ships where these problems will emerge.

On a. Related note, I was so excited to see the carrier spec Comodor, Having a PC skilled at commanding large ships seemed so awesome. But thn I read the specialization, and they didn't seem to do anything cool as the commander of a big ship, and there doesn't even to b a mechanic in the gam for getting them a big ship.

Range isn't used in calculating the Difficulty.

So the imperial gunners have to overcome at least seven purple dice of difficulty.

Nope, just 4.

As 2P51 mentioned range is not used in determining the difficuty of shots fired in space combat.

On a. Related note, I was so excited to see the carrier spec Comodor, Having a PC skilled at commanding large ships seemed so awesome. But thn I read the specialization, and they didn't seem to do anything cool as the commander of a big ship, and there doesn't even to b a mechanic in the gam for getting them a big ship.

What my group usually does for determining what capships a PC can command is pick a skill or two related to capship command and at certain levels of that skill any capship commanders in the party get to decide to upgrade to a larger ship or to add an additional ship to their command. For example if a PC was captaining a Neb-B when he hits the next milestone he or she will get the option to switch to captaining a Sil 7 ships or becoming the commander of a task force by taking command of a a Sil 5 or maybe a Sil 6 in addition to their Neb-B. We're still working out converting the system to FFG's system but we'll have plenty of time IMO since it shouldn't really be an issue until late in our upcoming campaign. And hopefully by than there will be more Alliance approiate Sil 7 ships (Short of capturing Imp ships the only Alliance appropriate Sil 7s I or my GMs see are the Neutron Stars and the Dreadnaughts. I have no idea why the Assault Frigates got left out of AOR core but hopefully they will appear soon..

Also, I'd suggest - as I the CRB does I believe - to treat the cannons as minions, not use number of the gunnery crew (which isn't defined anyway).

So, if firing 5 turbolasers, that would upgrade the Gunnery skill check four times, and five turbolasers are fired. It still increases the odds a good deal, but still within more reasonable limits than assuming a number of crew and using that number to upgrade the skill check for each cannon fired.

Also, why would your gunner minions only have 2 Agility? Seeing as how their primary function aboard the ship is based on Agility I'd set it to at least 3. If it's a front line ship (where the best crewers are transferred) you could easily justify an Agility score of 4.

On a. Related note, I was so excited to see the carrier spec Comodor, Having a PC skilled at commanding large ships seemed so awesome. But thn I read the specialization, and they didn't seem to do anything cool as the commander of a big ship, and there doesn't even to b a mechanic in the gam for getting them a big ship.

The thing they get as commander of a big ship is.... Command of a big ship. The commodore talent tree gives them talents that would be able to apply. There's other trees that work too. A comm/squad ldr would be pretty potent.

The mechanic for getting the players a capital ship is on pg 303, its the big letters under IX. If you want them to have a capital ship, give them a capital ship and plan the campaign according. The only reason its not part of the actual core is because FFG wants to ensure that most groups will be able to play their More conventional styled canned adventures. If you're interested in a capital campaign I suggest you track down the far orbit project and the darkstryder campaign. There's lots in there on the topic, and much of it will translate to this system without much, if any, work.

Use the Barrage rules rather than firing each gun individually. That's what they are there for. More abstract but less die rolling.

Stats for Star Destroyers are important, but in many respects they're there only in terms of performing capital ship vs. capital ship combat. If they players are in snubfighters or basically anything Sil4 or smaller, the bigger ships are functionally terrain. It is already noted that it is very difficult for a big ship to target a small fighter. Any fire coming from the big ships, unless specifically a type of anti-starfighter flak, is going to be directed against other large ships.

Anyway Hedgehobbit mentions the Barrage rules, which frankly is how these big ships are intended to operate.

I just got my rules and of course went to space combat (which is the same as EotE) and space ships. I just wanted to wrap my head around what it would be like to face a star destroyer in this game, well running away from actually. I don't expect PCsto kill star destroyers very often but I hope they can still show up in adventures, they are such an iconic part of Star Wars.

So tell me if I am reading the rules right. Let's say the PCs are in a chase with a star destroyer, at long range.

The star destroyer can fire twenty heavy turbo lasers (slow firing 2) so let's say seven a round a round, no other weapons can fire at long range, so I don't have to worry about all the other plethora of weapons the star destroyers have. Bit that is still seven damage 10, breach 4 shots a turn.

Now let's look at how likely they are to hit, a long range shot is three purple dice, plus the PCs will probably be doing evasive maneuvers, so upgrade one difficulty dice. Add four more purple dice since the star destroyer's silhouette.

So the imperial gunners have to overcome at least seven purple dice of difficulty. Here is where it gets really messy, imperial gunners are minions. One gunner has an agility of 2 and no skills at all. But if you remember from the movies, turbo lasers are fired by a crew, a crew of how many? If I say their are five gunners on each gun, they get to be pretty. Good shots, what if there are seven, now they have a really good chance to hit my PCs. Remember they are firing almost seven times a round.

I guess I feel like this whole situation, is both complicated and poorly defined for something that should probably b pretty common in an AoR game.

I saw a few extra action for ships with tons of shots to use, and mercifully it reduced those seven rolls to one, but they seem like bad ideas on the part of the empire since they don't increase the chance to hit, or reall increase damage. All they reall do is reduce did rolling, though while convenient, isn't a good, tactical, idea.

And I reall Ned better stats for the men manning those guns.

I am fine with a game saying that star destroyers are so much more powerful than, say a Yt-1300 that any interaction with them should be handled more dramatically than by following the rules so closely. But then why all the stats for all these big ships. Star destroyers are by no means the only ships where these problems will emerge.

On a. Related note, I was so excited to see the carrier spec Comodor, Having a PC skilled at commanding large ships seemed so awesome. But thn I read the specialization, and they didn't seem to do anything cool as the commander of a big ship, and there doesn't even to b a mechanic in the gam for getting them a big ship.

1. Range doesn't affect space combat difficulty, so you're just at four difficulty dice (or more likely three difficulty and one challenge because any small ship that's not evading when being shot at by a star destroyer is piloted by a fool!
2. As noted, you treat each gun as a minion - assuming a standard imperial gunnery corps gunner manning it. Yes, he might have a crew serving the gun, but only that one guy is firing, so you get a standard check upgraded nine times to represent a battery's fire. As a result, you only roll once for each broadside battery
3. There are no specific rules for acquiring a capital ship, but the contribution ranks/rebel assets table gives you an idea of the rank at which you might be put in command of one. A suitably 'high powered' game might be the crew of a Nebulon - one player as commodore, one as a lead engineer, and a couple as squadron leaders commanding the fighter groups.

When treating each gun as a minion and firing normally, there is no need to group higher than six weapons together. I'd suggest a battery of ten guns be split into two attacks each of five guns. When doing the barrage actions from AoR, the number of guns factors differently, and I'm not sure that the minion group rules apply as this would essentially allow double dipping of benefits.

I think he might be missing a step. If your players come across a Star Destroyer at that range the proper reaction should be. (And this is relative to the fact they will probably be sitting or standing in a cockpit.) "You see a Star Destroyer coming from (for this example) the left. Players reaction should be "Turn right and haul ass." Unless it is a fleet of starfighters, at least 4 or more, or a very heavily armed freighter (and by this I mean there is no cargo in it only weapons) that is the only reason your players should even MIGHT THINK about approaching a Star Destroyer. Star Destroyers are not your friend people you avoid them like they got all the plagues.

Sorry I do not have a proper answer to your question though my thought is if you don't want to have minion group of five limit down to three as maybe the Star Destroyer was not in a battle posture and the captain is pretty lax. If the players are bold enough to approach then you up the difficulty by having more minions show up to handle weapon systems. Or if you want you could limit down to ten guys up in the fire control group who are rivals, who are dictating which way the minion groups should shoot. Go off the rival skill set and when advantage or disadvantage is rolled give the next fire control guy a boost or setback die.

And the winner is Magnus Grendel, he wasn't the only person to get the rules right, but he was the only one to get them all right.

Since I posted I did some more reading.

Yeah, I totally missed that you ignore range in space combat, you use silhouette difference. So that starts with 4 purple dice.

If the PC pilot is evading then he can upgrade one of the difficulty dice. That seems like a pretty hard shot for the star destroyer. The gunner stats are in the book, and they are minions with agility two. The book says that you don't count the number of actual gunners but the number of guns in the group (I don't think you can arbitrarily break up weapon groups to get more efficient minion sizes) At long range the star destroyer has two different heavy turbo laser groups that can fire, each with ten guns. So the minion has basically 9 ranks in gunner. Agility 2 Gunnery 9 has a pretty good chance of hitting and doing extra damage against a dodging falcon sized ship. But the PC will only get shot at twice every three turns. The PCs will undoubtably take some damage as they frantically try to make the calculations to light speed, but I don't think they will be killed out right unless they do something stupid or get unlucky.

As for giving a PC a big ship, I agree that it makes a fundamental change to the types of adventures the party will go on. But that begs the question what does a commodore do in a more standard type game. They seem to be just another smart, run the nav-computer guy.

Skill ranks cap at 5, they don't keep going up with more numbers in minion groups.

I have a small issue with GM's trying to use star destroyers as set encounters for PC's.

In a role playing setting , we dont need ISD stats... ISD's crush face... period.

Use ISD's as a dramatic setting event and as stated above "Space Terrain" or a Dungeon to be delved. Players never should see an ISD and approach or engage with casually. Allowing such to occur via dice mechanics simply will lead to pain... and we all know pain leads to anger...

In my games Any combat against and from a True CAP ship is abstracted into the narrative. I will never ever have a PC rolla triumph and decide to use it as a crit..to blow up an ISD.. just wont happen...

I think he might be missing a step. If your players come across a Star Destroyer at that range the proper reaction should be. (And this is relative to the fact they will probably be sitting or standing in a cockpit.) "You see a Star Destroyer coming from (for this example) the left. Players reaction should be "Turn right and haul ass." Unless it is a fleet of starfighters, at least 4 or more, or a very heavily armed freighter (and by this I mean there is no cargo in it only weapons) that is the only reason your players should even MIGHT THINK about approaching a Star Destroyer. Star Destroyers are not your friend people you avoid them like they got all the plagues.

Sorry I do not have a proper answer to your question though my thought is if you don't want to have minion group of five limit down to three as maybe the Star Destroyer was not in a battle posture and the captain is pretty lax. If the players are bold enough to approach then you up the difficulty by having more minions show up to handle weapon systems. Or if you want you could limit down to ten guys up in the fire control group who are rivals, who are dictating which way the minion groups should shoot. Go off the rival skill set and when advantage or disadvantage is rolled give the next fire control guy a boost or setback die.

Good luck at avoiding an ISD. It has a greater sensor range than just about all ships PCs might have, and it's weapons can hit you at those ranges too. If it wants you dead, it can do it before you even know it's there.

In my games Any combat against and from a True CAP ship is abstracted into the narrative. I will never ever have a PC rolla triumph and decide to use it as a crit..to blow up an ISD.. just wont happen...

Why not? That's basically what Luke did to the Death Star at Yavin in game terms. And Someone, likely Lando or Wedge though it could have been one of the pilots with them, did that to destroy a ship that was later established to be a Praetor-II at Endor in the ROTJ novelization.

I have a small issue with GM's trying to use star destroyers as set encounters for PC's.

In a role playing setting , we dont need ISD stats... ISD's crush face... period.

Use ISD's as a dramatic setting event and as stated above "Space Terrain" or a Dungeon to be delved. Players never should see an ISD and approach or engage with casually. Allowing such to occur via dice mechanics simply will lead to pain... and we all know pain leads to anger...

In my games Any combat against and from a True CAP ship is abstracted into the narrative. I will never ever have a PC rolla triumph and decide to use it as a crit..to blow up an ISD.. just wont happen...

Except how time did the movies spend on Han Solo trying to get away from a Star Destroyer. If you remember, he had two of them chasing him just after they took off from Tatooine. At least one of them got into range to fire. (remember that flashing)

I don't expect PCs to go toe to toe against a Star Destroyer, but if they can't show up in a Star Wars game because they would "just be too powerful" then I think something is wrong.

@ 2P51, thank you that is exactly the sort of "in the rules" stuff that I need.

I have a small issue with GM's trying to use star destroyers as set encounters for PC's.

In a role playing setting , we dont need ISD stats... ISD's crush face... period.

Use ISD's as a dramatic setting event and as stated above "Space Terrain" or a Dungeon to be delved. Players never should see an ISD and approach or engage with casually. Allowing such to occur via dice mechanics simply will lead to pain... and we all know pain leads to anger...

In my games Any combat against and from a True CAP ship is abstracted into the narrative. I will never ever have a PC rolla triumph and decide to use it as a crit..to blow up an ISD.. just wont happen...

Except how time did the movies spend on Han Solo trying to get away from a Star Destroyer. If you remember, he had two of them chasing him just after they took off from Tatooine. At least one of them got into range to fire. (remember that flashing)

I don't expect PCs to go toe to toe against a Star Destroyer, but if they can't show up in a Star Wars game because they would "just be too powerful" then I think something is wrong.

@ 2P51, thank you that is exactly the sort of "in the rules" stuff that I need.

If a Pilot advances themselves properly and has Talents like Brilliant Evasion and Tricky Target, coupled with a space hot rod like the Falcon with things like an ECM suite upgrade, then they will be able to avoid being shot at long enough to make a get-a-way...............unless the F#$%ing hyperdrive goes out........................