I was cloaked with the phantom and then hit with an ion turret during the combat phase. during the next activation phase I wanted to decloak. would I be able to declaok?

Nope. Decloaking occurs just before revealing your maneuver dial. When you are ioned you don't set a dial so there is no just before to decloak in.

The trigger conditions for decloaking is to spend a cloak token and have revealed a maneuver dial. Ion effect does not allow you to set a dial to be revealed so that trigger condition will not occur. You will not be able to decloak that round.

Ionizing and stressing Phantoms is a good way to make them pretty ordinary.

I was just wondering about the steps for decloacking. Do you decloak before or after you reveal the movement dial? That is to say do you do your decloack action before or after showing what maneuver you are going to perform?

I was just wondering about the steps for decloacking. Do you decloak before or after you reveal the movement dial? That is to say do you do your decloack action before or after showing what maneuver you are going to perform?

I've tended to do it both ways. I believe it's technically before you flip the dial, but I don't know of any case where it actually matters, and I haven't ever seen anyone have a problem with it if you declare it as you flip the dial.

I noticed that during the last game my opponant declared an uncloak action, flipped his maneuver dial, peformed his decloak move and then realised that when he took his normal move it would take him into an asteroid. He then 'took back' his decloak move and decloaked in such a way that wouldn't lead to a collision. I was just wondering if you had to decloak, perform your decloak maneuver, then reveal your dial or you could do your two maneuvers in conjunction.

It's printed clearly on the Decloak card: "A ship may spend a cloak token to DECLOAK immediately before revealing its maneuver dial."

Be careful when using 'shortcuts' in a tournament. You might be judge called for sequencing errors by your opponent. Do what the card says and you will be fine.

I noticed that during the last game my opponant declared an uncloak action, flipped his maneuver dial, peformed his decloak move and then realised that when he took his normal move it would take him into an asteroid. He then 'took back' his decloak move and decloaked in such a way that wouldn't lead to a collision. I was just wondering if you had to decloak, perform your decloak maneuver, then reveal your dial or you could do your two maneuvers in conjunction.

You have to decloak first, then perform your maneuver. Whether you reveal the dial early or not makes no difference; you're still committed as soon as you pick a direction to decloak. Your opponent shouldn't really have been allowed to take it back.

Well we play pretty casual but I'll keep it in mind.

He should have been stuck with the direction chosen for the decloak.

The dial reveal doesn't really have anything to do with it, though. Per the normal competitive rules for things like barrel roll and boost, you pick the direction, and if you can complete the move you're stuck with it.

If someone wanted to say "You already flipped your dial so that means you can't decloak" they might be technically correct, but I don't know many (any, honestly) X-wing players who'd be enough of a jerk to lock you into that sort of meaningless minutiae. If it matters, sure, fine, but I don't think I've ever seen anyone go to that level for something that literally does not matter at all.

And honestly even on the technicality, I as a TO wouldn't let someone pull it. There's some valid dispute with the idea of "immediately before" and triggers. Personally, I'm of the opinion that things like "before" relate to ordering relative to the trigger event, but the event must still happen. Yeah, it's some funky time-warpi-ness going on, but them's the rules we've got, and pretty much NOBODY can point to timing rules in X-wing that are fine enough to be worth locking someone into an action (or denying them one) for that.

It SHOULD be a purely academic discussion because, as mentioned, there literally zero game impact depending on the choice... some may try and make a stink about it, but I'd just tell them to get back to the game and Fly A Bit More Casually. Or just invoke Wheaton's Law, if it was bad enough.

I noticed that during the last game my opponant declared an uncloak action, flipped his maneuver dial, peformed his decloak move and then realised that when he took his normal move it would take him into an asteroid. He then 'took back' his decloak move and decloaked in such a way that wouldn't lead to a collision. I was just wondering if you had to decloak, perform your decloak maneuver, then reveal your dial or you could do your two maneuvers in conjunction.

What he did was just wrong. The Phantom is a tricky beast to fly and that's part of it's charm. If he wasn't flying a Phantom and landed on an asteroid, would you let him take it back to the planning phase and pick a new maneuver?

I had a game a couple of weeks ago where my opponent wanted to use his new Rebel Transport. He barrel rolled his B-Wing and ended right in front of the transport, then moved the transport and rammed the B-Wing. BOOM! We all laughed at that one. My first outing with my Phantom, I decloaked Echo, made his move and ended up half an inch away from Chewie in the Falcon, but sadly he was out of my arc. I got one-shotted in the first move.

It's the nature of this game that occasionally you screw yourself up, and end up somewhere you didn't want to be. You have to take the consequences of poor planning.

Well we play pretty casual but I'll keep it in mind.

Keep in mind that the other responses that you are reading are really addressing competitive play. In friendly games (meaning non-tournament), I will allow my opponents all kinds of mulligans such as taking back boosts/barrel rolls or placing a token on a ship later in the round when they forgot to take an action.

Most of the contributors to these forums are tournament players, and that tends to be all that we talk about. In friendly games, you can definitely take some liberties with the rigidity of the competitive rules.

I think there should be some degree of leniency in casual play but only as an opportunity to educate players on the rules.

The most common would be forgeting an action. This is usually limited to focus, evade and target locks. Boosts and barrel rolls are missed opportunities. After a few reminders it becomes a habit.

The other common mistake is pre measuring boosts and barrel rolls. I will usually inform them that they must declare an action and direction/target and commit to it if possible. Rarely will they make the same mistake again.

Most of the contributors to these forums are tournament players, and that tends to be all that we talk about.

Many of us are. But even if we aren't, it's best when discussing the rules to look at them in the strictest sense, because that will apply in all cases. If we discuss them from the standpoint of what you will allow in casual friendly play, then we're looking at the rules from the loosest form which means they wouldn't be suitable for tournament play.

We seem to be dancing around it without bringing up the actual competitive levels.

It's worth looking at the levels as defined in the FAQ. Competitive play is where you bring in things like picking and committing to directions for B/BR, and getting strict about lost opportunities. But any event - even tournaments - can and should specify the level they're playing.

A lot of us - myself included - tend to always play by the competitive standards. But not doing so isn't strictly against the rules. The context you're playing in matters, and if we're going to talk about what is and isn't a mistake that players should be held to (such as Smirrors does) it's very important to specify that context. What he describes as "leniency" isn't necessarily leniency - it's what the base rules allow if you're not playing by the competitive standard.

A lot of us - myself included - tend to always play by the competitive standards. But not doing so isn't strictly against the rules.

To echo Buhallin, if you or your friend ever intend to compete in tournaments, I would encourage you to play by competitive rules. You will be familiar with the expectations when you do go to tournaments, and it will make you a better player.

A lot of us - myself included - tend to always play by the competitive standards. But not doing so isn't strictly against the rules.

To echo Buhallin, if you or your friend ever intend to compete in tournaments, I would encourage you to play by competitive rules. You will be familiar with the expectations when you do go to tournaments, and it will make you a better player.

Again, I'm going to push back a little on this framing.

Not every tournament uses the competitive rules. The competitive rules are formally in place only for Competitive- and Premiere-level events, which basically includes major events centralized by FFG, including things like Imdaar Alpha and Store/Regional/National/World Championships. There is actually a level for "Casual" events, which includes regular store tournaments. Honestly, it wouldn't be hard to read the Tournament Rules to say that regular store tournaments simply are Casual, full stop.

The level of rules at play depends on the TO, and probably depends on the area. I know of several players who hate the competitive rules with a vengeance, and I suspect events in their areas stick to the Casual rules. There's nothing wrong with that.

There's certainly something to be said for playing to the strictest level so you're ready for it if/when you go to bigger events... But "compete in tournaments" and "use the Competitive Rules" are not actually synonymous. More importantly (and especially since this thread started with a "my opponent did this..." framing) it's important to respect the rules as set by the TO. If your opponent were to do this at a Casual tournament, it is perfectly legal.

I'd like to nuance my statement above slightly based on the points Buhallin made.

When I say the strictest sense. I mean based on the core rules, or the Competitive rules when applicable, and I mean by the strictest sense of RAW.

If someone says "Is it ok for me to change the side I barrel roll to, after I measure?"

Well if you're playing by the core rules, then yes you can in fact do that. Because you can measure before committing to the action. But if you're playing by the Competitive Play rules, then no you can't, you have to BR the direction you picked if possible.

But that is a different thing from "If I move 2 PS 4 ships, can I give both of them focus after I move the 2nd one?" In that case the rules actually state you can't do that, unless it's ok with the other person. Even though most people may allow you to do so. You are supposed to activate each ship in turn and have missed the opportunity to take a action with the first ship you moved.

There's certainly something to be said for playing to the strictest level so you're ready for it if/when you go to bigger events... But "compete in tournaments" and "use the Competitive Rules" are not actually synonymous. More importantly (and especially since this thread started with a "my opponent did this..." framing) it's important to respect the rules as set by the TO. If your opponent were to do this at a Casual tournament, it is perfectly legal.

I'm not arguing with this (or with any of your other points), but if you play in tournaments you are very likely to encounter competitive rules, so it is best to be familiar with them.

It is a problem I have seen before.

We get casual players asking for rule clarifications and we give them the full Competitive version of them. The reason we do this is competitive play has more stringent rules to follow, and we certainly don't want to steer you in the wrong way on a rules clarification since we don't know which ruleset you are going to be following; so we use the stricter version to avoid causing undue duress (and looking incorrect).

Also, casual play allows for more leniency and easy game playing as that is the best way to have fun.

We are, after all, trying to Fly Casual around here.

In a casual event or environment it may be expected that the rules be bent or broken in any number of instances.

As such you can't answer a rules question for that environment as you have no way of knowing what rules they will be actually playing with.

Best way to have fun is quite subjective. I would not find it fun to play in an event where I'd be expected to allow my opponent to take back a decloak after realizing his dial put him in a poor spot. If I'm not flying a ship that can cloak; boost, or barrel roll with complete freedom to take back that action; then I'm just at a very frustrating disadvantage.

In a casual event or environment it may be expected that the rules be bent or broken in any number of instances.

As such you can't answer a rules question for that environment as you have no way of knowing what rules they will be actually playing with.

This is exactly the thing I'm trying to push back against.

Under the Casual play rules, including for tournaments, nothing the OP's opponent did broke or even bent any rules. It was all perfectly legal.

Whether we like it or not (and I certainly don't, to be honest) we have two different standards for certain actions. It can be hard to keep that clear and separate, but it's important to do so, and to do so correctly. A lot of the framing here is "It's OK to bend the rules in casual play" which is simply wrong. Taking back a barrel roll isn't necessarily illegal, and going to a tournament doesn't automatically mean competitive rules will be in place.

It can be hard for some of us who always play the competitive rules, even in casual play, to remember that it's perfectly legal to do that sort of thing, and even my response was poorly framed. But I think we need to keep it in mind, and not tell people they're cheating if they're not.

Best way to have fun is quite subjective. I would not find it fun to play in an event where I'd be expected to allow my opponent to take back a decloak after realizing his dial put him in a poor spot. If I'm not flying a ship that can cloak; boost, or barrel roll with complete freedom to take back that action; then I'm just at a very frustrating disadvantage.

And there's nothing wrong with that - I'm not a fan of it either, although more for a "Pick and stick with it" side than any sense of disadvantage.

But that's on you to avoid tournaments using the Casual ruleset, and clarify with your opponents that you prefer the Competitive rules for standard games. Your dislike doesn't make it against the rules.