What spoil sports.

Since the defender came out I'm loving the hlc, thing is that's on a small ship on a large ship that's fairly easy to block that dead zone isn't going to be all that hard to exploit you just fly one academy pilot a little ahead of his buddies they'll have free shots, hell you can sit in that dead zone take out the z-95 escorts then dismantle the outrider at your leisure.

I think its a good bet that FFG will release other cannons. Thats when the Outridder upgrade will be most worth it.

The HLC is worth 7 points because on the ships its currently available it gives them the same damage output at all three ranges, and (perhaps) most importantly, it removes the defense bonus associated with range 3 attacks.

Removing the possibility to make a range 1 attack is big. Especially with a large imperial ship that wants to ram. Even if you take into account the ability to barrel roll, the fact that you have to waste an action to barrel roll a large ship (harder to pull off than a small ship, reduces your damage output, as you cant focus or TL. If you go for PTL, you loose the initiative bid, and thus can get jumped by ps8+ ships.

And all that for 12 points.

The problem is that you will want to fly the YT2300 at rb3, like the new Han shoots first with Zs. To fly at that range, you spend your action boosting (or barrel rolling in th Outriders case). That being said, you then loose your offensive punch (again unless you go for PTL, then you loose the initiative bid.) What sucks is that Han works at RB3 because between his ability and Gunner, he should land a good hit. You cannot use Gunner with the Outrider title, as you cannot make primary attacks.

I think the outrider with hlc and predator could be good. Even if you use barrel roll you still get to reroll 1-2 dice in your attack.

Thirty bucks, yeah it should be more expensive for what you get- the nerve!

It's kind of surprising that YT-2400 didn't get the same treatment as the YT-1300. The YT-1300 remains the only ship in the game to have varying stats by pilot. Just noticed this today as I was trying to think of how much cheaper the basic pilot would be compared to Dash like the ORS to Han Solo.

The Outrider title + Cannon choice really was a great way to design that same kind of function, though. I don't think many people will take the Wild Spacer with an Outrider/Cannon combo rather than just pay a few more points to get one of the named ones.

It's kind of surprising that YT-2400 didn't get the same treatment as the YT-1300. The YT-1300 remains the only ship in the game to have varying stats by pilot. Just noticed this today as I was trying to think of how much cheaper the basic pilot would be compared to Dash like the ORS to Han Solo.

The Outrider title + Cannon choice really was a great way to design that same kind of function, though. I don't think many people will take the Wild Spacer with an Outrider/Cannon combo rather than just pay a few more points to get one of the named ones.

See, I disagree. If I were to play an Outrider with the title, I'd probably want it to stay as cheap as possible because the title+HLC is prohibitively expensive. But, Dash's ability is tailor made to make use of the HLC Turret, but it'll also make him great with just an HLC and not the title. Depends on the other named abilities, IMO.

It's kind of surprising that YT-2400 didn't get the same treatment as the YT-1300. The YT-1300 remains the only ship in the game to have varying stats by pilot. Just noticed this today as I was trying to think of how much cheaper the basic pilot would be compared to Dash like the ORS to Han Solo.

The Outrider title + Cannon choice really was a great way to design that same kind of function, though. I don't think many people will take the Wild Spacer with an Outrider/Cannon combo rather than just pay a few more points to get one of the named ones.

See, I disagree. If I were to play an Outrider with the title, I'd probably want it to stay as cheap as possible because the title+HLC is prohibitively expensive. But, Dash's ability is tailor made to make use of the HLC Turret, but it'll also make him great with just an HLC and not the title. Depends on the other named abilities, IMO.

Ah, that certainly makes sense. But, we'll have to see just how cheap the basic pilot is. There will be 3 named pilots tempting you for just, what, 5, 6, 7 points? A fraction of the cost for the Outrider/Cannon combo. In my experience, unless the abilities are all as 'bad' as the Lambda's pilots, pilot abilities are great value for what little you pay for them.

It's kind of surprising that YT-2400 didn't get the same treatment as the YT-1300. The YT-1300 remains the only ship in the game to have varying stats by pilot. Just noticed this today as I was trying to think of how much cheaper the basic pilot would be compared to Dash like the ORS to Han Solo.

The Outrider title + Cannon choice really was a great way to design that same kind of function, though. I don't think many people will take the Wild Spacer with an Outrider/Cannon combo rather than just pay a few more points to get one of the named ones.

See, I disagree. If I were to play an Outrider with the title, I'd probably want it to stay as cheap as possible because the title+HLC is prohibitively expensive. But, Dash's ability is tailor made to make use of the HLC Turret, but it'll also make him great with just an HLC and not the title. Depends on the other named abilities, IMO.

Ah, that certainly makes sense. But, we'll have to see just how cheap the basic pilot is. There will be 3 named pilots tempting you for just, what, 5, 6, 7 points? A fraction of the cost for the Outrider/Cannon combo. In my experience, unless the abilities are all as 'bad' as the Lambda's pilots, pilot abilities are great value for what little you pay for them.

Named Pilots come with a sliding scale. I definitely agree some pilot abilities are worth the 1-3 point premium that they come with, but the game really overcharges for pilot skill. 1 for 1 isn't near worth it on most ships. That's what makes the Royal Guard pilot such good value: the cost is reduced compared to the others. Also, the weaknesses in the Lambda are from its dial, not its pilots. It has some of the better support abilities in the game, next to Howlrunner and to a lesser extent, Kyle Katarn. The issue is the dial is so terrible that it's difficult to make good use of the abilities. Therefore, players can't do too much with the ship, and want to keep it cheap. It IS, after all, 3 dice on a fairly durable chassis. It is also one of the more customizable ships in the game, but again, the dial limits the capabilities of the upgrades.

I'd guess that the basic 2400 costs about 30 +/- 1, making the pilots cost 32, 34, 36 (wild speculation, no grounds other than previous ships). They may or may not be worth it. Again, the problem people have with named pilots is typically not their abilities, its the cost put on their pilot skill. Most players will agree that 1 for 1 pilot skill cost is too expensive, especially when you are talking about a ship that's higher than PS5. It explains why we see so few of them competitively. If you take a PS4-5 ship, you will shoot before 85% of the ships you see in the tournament scene, and that is enough for most people. For named pilots, you are increasing the cost of a ship often without notably increasing its durability or firepower. So you increase your cost and lessen your return for each point you spend on a pilot above the cheapest one. Its the reason TIE swarm is still so popular: its one of the most cost-efficient lists in the game as far as HP and firepower. Notable exceptions are pilots like Han Solo and Soontir Fel, whose ships are just that good that it can be worth paying the expense.

Upgrades create the same cost deficiency issue. If you put the Outrider Title and an HLC on a 2400, you are paying 12 points. Those 12 points get you a powerful weapon but also a startlingly dangerous blind spot at Range 1. The ship has Barrel Roll, which will help alleviate that issue, and Dash's ability is tailored to take advantage of that. But, I'm not sure that 12 point cannon is better than adding a Z95, which is the same cost. I know we haven't seen the dial or most of the cards from Wave 5, but I'm really thinking the best way to run Dash with be with HLC or Ion Cannon without the title. You can BR to get your target into view of that cannon, and if you can't you can still make an attack in any direction at any range. Seems better than opening up to those interceptors and phantoms who will move after you, slip into Range 1, and eat you alive while you can't return fire.

Just some thoughts.

Engine, those are some good thoughts, but I think the 12 point cannon will be worth while over the Z95. You don't make any gains in firepower (firepower is the queen of the battlefield in Xwing). It is true that you are losing out on target saturation and another 4 hp, but with secondary weapon rules being what they are, it is reasonable to expect that the Outride/HLC combo will even the playing field quite early on. This will only get exasperated as the game goes on.

It also does not seem like it will be altogether difficult to midigate that range 1 blind spot. Many pilots here are overestimating how easy it is to actually take advantage of this perceived weakness with such a maneuverable ship.

It's not phantoms that will be threats for the Outrider, it's large ships and high firepower/high hp fighters (defenders and bwings).

Engine, those are some good thoughts, but I think the 12 point cannon will be worth while over the Z95. You don't make any gains in firepower which is the real queen of the battlefield in Xwing. Now, it is true that you are losing out on target saturation and another 4 hp, but with secondary weapon rules being what they are, it is reasonable to expect that the Outride/HLC combo will even the playing field quite early on. This will only get exasperated as the game goes on. It also does not seem like it will be altogether difficult to midigate that range 1 blind spot. Many pilots here are overestimating how easy it is to actually take advantage of that weakness with such a maneuverable ship. It's not phantoms that will be threats for the Outrider, it's large ships and high firepower/high hp fighters (defenders and bwings).

Yeah i'd rather have the Z-95 with the extra hit points and get the same number of dice.

Engine, those are some good thoughts, but I think the 12 point cannon will be worth while over the Z95. You don't make any gains in firepower (firepower is the queen of the battlefield in Xwing). It is true that you are losing out on target saturation and another 4 hp, but with secondary weapon rules being what they are, it is reasonable to expect that the Outride/HLC combo will even the playing field quite early on. This will only get exasperated as the game goes on.

It also does not seem like it will be altogether difficult to midigate that range 1 blind spot. Many pilots here are overestimating how easy it is to actually take advantage of this perceived weakness with such a maneuverable ship.

It's not phantoms that will be threats for the Outrider, it's large ships and high firepower/high hp fighters (defenders and bwings).

Engine, those are some good thoughts, but I think the 12 point cannon will be worth while over the Z95. You don't make any gains in firepower which is the real queen of the battlefield in Xwing. Now, it is true that you are losing out on target saturation and another 4 hp, but with secondary weapon rules being what they are, it is reasonable to expect that the Outride/HLC combo will even the playing field quite early on. This will only get exasperated as the game goes on. It also does not seem like it will be altogether difficult to midigate that range 1 blind spot. Many pilots here are overestimating how easy it is to actually take advantage of that weakness with such a maneuverable ship. It's not phantoms that will be threats for the Outrider, it's large ships and high firepower/high hp fighters (defenders and bwings).

Yeah i'd rather have the Z-95 with the extra hit points and get the same number of dice.

Engine, those are some good thoughts, but I think the 12 point cannon will be worth while over the Z95. You don't make any gains in firepower (firepower is the queen of the battlefield in Xwing). It is true that you are losing out on target saturation and another 4 hp, but with secondary weapon rules being what they are, it is reasonable to expect that the Outride/HLC combo will even the playing field quite early on. This will only get exasperated as the game goes on.

It also does not seem like it will be altogether difficult to midigate that range 1 blind spot. Many pilots here are overestimating how easy it is to actually take advantage of this perceived weakness with such a maneuverable ship.

It's not phantoms that will be threats for the Outrider, it's large ships and high firepower/high hp fighters (defenders and bwings).

The Firespray's biggest worry isn' high firepower high defense ships, it's cheap high firepower ships. X-Wings, B-Wings, Hull upgraded Interceptors, etc if you can fit 4 3 attack ships that take two attacks to kill it will cause issues. The same really holds for the Outrider even more.

Exactly. The YT, in any competitive situation, will be the FIRST ship destroyed on your side. If it is not, then your opponent has given you a big advantage. But, you must always consider your list throughout the course of a game. Given that, I don't want to spend another 12 points to improve my turret. The more points you spend on a ship, the bigger the target it has on it. The 360 fire and barrel roll already give it a huge advantage. Therefore, while it will deal a heavy hit or even a few early on, you can't assume it will be there to help you even midway through the match. So, you need to have as many other ships that can clean up the table as you can afford. Now, like I said, I think Dash+HLC with and without the title will be quite powerful, but it's difficult to say if the title will see wide use for these reasons.

This is also, like I said, based on only what we have seen. We haven't seen the dial, nor do we know the vast majority of the cards in the new wave.

Like @Aminar said, it will face big problems with any list with 4 ships that have 3 attack. And, if you have the title, you wouldn't be very smart to not be afraid of any hyper-mobile ship, either. Soontir and Whisper will eat the Outrider alive, and you can't return fire.

I tend to kill YT's lacking 3P0 Last. It's a lot easier to cut their firepower by nailing X-Wings. Granted we're not seeing X-Wings run with Falcons anymore, but B-Wings still go down fast. I'm not sure what to do with Z-95s...

I tend to kill YT's lacking 3P0 Last. It's a lot easier to cut their firepower by nailing X-Wings. Granted we're not seeing X-Wings run with Falcons anymore, but B-Wings still go down fast. I'm not sure what to do with Z-95s...

If the escorts are all Zs, then I would DEFINITELY focus on the Falcon first, as they don't pose a huge threat to most ships.

I tend to kill YT's lacking 3P0 Last. It's a lot easier to cut their firepower by nailing X-Wings. Granted we're not seeing X-Wings run with Falcons anymore, but B-Wings still go down fast. I'm not sure what to do with Z-95s...

If the escorts are all Zs, then I would DEFINITELY focus on the Falcon first, as they don't pose a huge threat to most ships.

Don't underestimate cheap ships just because they only have two attacks my academy pilots have been the death of many ships, plus it's four hit points per ship to deal with using the z-95 and two of those are crit immune.

Again, I don't think y'all are thinking in fluid game terms. A firepower 4 secondary weapon is far stronger in offense and defense than the additional firepower 2, 4 hp Z95. Through the course of the first couple of turns, the Outrider stands a good chance of downing 1-2 enemy ships, which will probably equalize the playing field in straight ship to ship terms. The biggest advantage the additional Z95 gives is target saturation and maneuver, but is that necessary if you've already eliminated 1-2 ships? I tend to think not.

"The Firespray's biggest worry isn' high firepower high defense ships, it's cheap high firepower ships. X-Wings, B-Wings, Hull upgraded Interceptors, etc if you can fit 4 3 attack ships that take two attacks to kill it will cause issues. The same really holds for the Outrider even more."

My point exactly, Aminar.

"Soontir and Whisper will eat the Outrider alive, and you can't return fire."

I don't agree with this. The pilot of the Outrider can fairly adequately anticipate those turns where Soontir and Whisper will try to close with the Outrider. A straight 4, bank 3, barrel roll, etc, can ably mitigate that risk (and offer another turn of return firepower 4 since it's a turret); that doesn't even include the hazard of asteroids for either of those aces.

Beyond all this, you can run a fairly potent, adaptable 3-5 ship list, consider:

Dash + Outrider, HLC, Tactician, VI

Bandit x 2

Tarn Mison + R7

or

Dash + Outrider, HLC, PTL, Intelligence Agent

Bandit x 4

or

Dash + Outrider, HLC, VI

Dutch + Ion

Gold + Ion

Each of these acts to mitigate the supposed weaknesses and present some good problems the enemy has to solve. Remember, the whole time the enemy is targeting the Outrider for destruction, he is doing so under the fire of the HLC, Ions and other weapons!

I don't know that you're really thinking in fluid game terms either, Red Winter.

First of all, the YT wouldn't need the Outrider title to kill one or two enemies in the first couple turns. An HLC on any ship is capable of doing what you describe. The Outrider is about hoping to deliver that kind of damage in the turns following those first crucial two.

But keep in mind the game is about how many red dice each ship can throw before it dies. I think a Z+YT will throw more dice than the Outrider+HLC. If the Z and YT are both in range 1, they throw out 6 dice. An HLC wishes it could do that!

It seems to me the ship is pretty fairly balanced. It looks like it is a much lower point cost than it actually is by the time you are done with the upgrades. If you leave it with just it's primary weapon it is the most expensive 2 attack ship in the game. If you give it a heavy laser cannon and the outrider title you add a whopping 12 points to it and you still have more upgrades to take after that. It starts off cheap and weak, but by the time you are done kitting it out you are rivaling the cost of a YT-1300. Except unlike the YT-1300 you can't use a gunner let alone a gunner/weapon's engineer combo. Not only that but with the Outrider title being unique you can only field one YT-2400 with a cannon turret.

The reason it's base cost is so low is because it takes a lot of costly upgrades. Because of this, however, it also has a wider variety of options for how to fly it. You can't take a gunner with the outrider title, but can without it. You can use it as a support ship with an ion cannon and do so either as full on support with the outrider title making it a turret or a mix of support and offence by taking the ion without the title and retaining both attacks with a limited ion cannon arc.