Han Solo + Gunner (51)
Dash Rendar + Veteran Instincts + Heavy Laser Cannon + Outrider (49)
I don't know, Han with just Gunner seems bad it having both shot at PS 9 seems ok and it does give the YT-2400 the best visibility for that Barrel Roll.
As far as cost go, 49 is not a good or bad price for this effect in game.
Han Solo + Gunner (51)
Dash Rendar + Veteran Instincts + Heavy Laser Cannon + Outrider (49)
I don't know, Han with just Gunner seems bad it having both shot at PS 9 seems ok and it does give the YT-2400 the best visibility for that Barrel Roll.
As far as cost go, 49 is not a good or bad price for this effect in game.
That range one weakness is huge, and as I've been saying with the Phantom, 4 Unmodified dice is not scary. Especially when it has no range one shot in the case of the Outrider. It's not terribly hard to jam up into that bubble. Even when you move last. Maybe especially when you move last against a large ship
Wow - good to know. I wouldn't want to buy an underpriced ship. 
Han there seems bad to you? He's the most accurate ship in the game. I mean Dash is good too, but he has exploitable weaknesses and Gunner is quite possibly the best upgrade in the game. In addition Han's ability, in conjunction with Gunner, is amazing. Granted, I'd take the Outrider, but without the title, as I see it as more efficient.Han Solo + Gunner (51)
Dash Rendar + Veteran Instincts + Heavy Laser Cannon + Outrider (49)
I don't know, Han with just Gunner seems bad it having both shot at PS 9 seems ok and it does give the YT-2400 the best visibility for that Barrel Roll.
As far as cost go, 49 is not a good or bad price for this effect in game.
That range one weakness is huge, and as I've been saying with the Phantom, 4 Unmodified dice is not scary. Especially when it has no range one shot in the case of the Outrider. It's not terribly hard to jam up into that bubble. Even when you move last. Maybe especially when you move last against a large ship
I think that barrel roll could really help keep the range for the HLC for dash. Keep in mind that range 1 is 2.5 ship bases long and when a large base barrel rolls it moves 3. Yes blocking is going to be a big deal to both of these guys. I do agree that 12 points just to have a turreted HLC is crazy expensive. I'm more or less wondering if there is enough meat on the bone to run a duel YT list while having enough offense to not just crumble.
Han there seems bad to you? He's the most accurate ship in the game. I mean Dash is good too, but he has exploitable weaknesses and Gunner is quite possibly the best upgrade in the game. In addition Han's ability, in conjunction with Gunner, is amazing. Granted, I'd take the Outrider, but without the title, as I see it as more efficient.Han Solo + Gunner (51)
Dash Rendar + Veteran Instincts + Heavy Laser Cannon + Outrider (49)
I don't know, Han with just Gunner seems bad it having both shot at PS 9 seems ok and it does give the YT-2400 the best visibility for that Barrel Roll.
As far as cost go, 49 is not a good or bad price for this effect in game.
That range one weakness is huge, and as I've been saying with the Phantom, 4 Unmodified dice is not scary. Especially when it has no range one shot in the case of the Outrider. It's not terribly hard to jam up into that bubble. Even when you move last. Maybe especially when you move last against a large ship
I think that barrel roll could really help keep the range for the HLC for dash. Keep in mind that range 1 is 2.5 ship bases long and when a large base barrel rolls it moves 3. Yes blocking is going to be a big deal to both of these guys. I do agree that 12 points just to have a turreted HLC is crazy expensive. I'm more or less wondering if there is enough meat on the bone to run a duel YT list while having enough offense to not just crumble.
That action denial is a huge weakness for a ship that big, and in need of that much positioning.
For double YTs, I'm looking at:
49: Dash w/ HLC, Predator, Rec Spec
51: Lando w/ PtL, Nien Nunb, Han Solo, Falcon title
Dash slow-rolls and focus and barrel rolls every turn. Lando pulls greens to lend Dash the second action and evade and TLs every turn. Or if you want a less action dependent build for Lando, you could do Gunner, Nien, Falcon for the same cost.
Let me take a note from the X-Wing companion App.
The YT-2400 Freighter Expansion Pack has not been released yet, and its contents might still change.
Okay now lets take a look at the preview app with the knowledge that it can be completely redone and the stats ability or point cost is not yet final.
Dash Rendar is not in a modified frigate like the falcon so it has 3 less hull and 1 less firepower than the modified YT-1300 which would be Hans, Lando, and Chewy. So less Stats = Less points.
Lets take a look at Pilot Ability, Dash Rendar is only 7 he can ignore obstacles in activation phase. Question is does he still have the chance to take damage if he moves on an obstacle. Lets just say for the sake of the Op's nerd rage no. Okay good but in the combat phase he doesn't ignore obstacles. I would say no because attacking is in the combat phase where obstacles are not ignored, so if say movement or action results in an overlap of an obstacle that means firepower now equals 0. But okay lets just say that it could still attack. Well if it passes over an obstacle it has also gave the defender another evade die.
36 is still an expensive ship. It cost 6 more points than "Echo". Using one will definitely lead you to a 3 ship build or less unless you decide to just swarm Z-95s as the rest of your squad but I would say you wouldn't be getting the most out of the ships in that build.
That is less important on a turret ship. Still important, but not as important. The Outrider would be playable as is with the Hawks dial or the Shuttle dial. But it's probably at least as good as the Firesprays dial given it's in universe description.Plus, we don't know the dial!!!!!!
It is impossible to judge the worth of a ship in this game without knowing its maneuver dial, the dial is the single most important element in a ships effectiveness and points efficiency.
On a turretship with either an R1 blindspot, an R1 only weapon, or with only any serious firepower in the forward arc, the dial is critical.
Relativeley reasoned out speculation. It's a PS2 Pilot versus a PS7. Dash has a pretty stellar ability, and 30 seems fair in comparison to the outer rim smuggler.
ORS gets a stat debuff, Wild Spacer doesn't.
Edited by LagomorphiaDidn't sky fall with the phantom's release ? How could it get up this fast to fall again ?
It didn't...
I'm still having trouble getting excited about dash. I really think the lower ps pilots will get used more ( if the abilities are good )
Let me take a note from the X-Wing companion App.
The YT-2400 Freighter Expansion Pack has not been released yet, and its contents might still change.
Okay now lets take a look at the preview app with the knowledge that it can be completely redone and the stats ability or point cost is not yet final.
Dash Rendar is not in a modified frigate like the falcon so it has 3 less hull and 1 less firepower than the modified YT-1300 which would be Hans, Lando, and Chewy. So less Stats = Less points.
Lets take a look at Pilot Ability, Dash Rendar is only 7 he can ignore obstacles in activation phase. Question is does he still have the chance to take damage if he moves on an obstacle. Lets just say for the sake of the Op's nerd rage no. Okay good but in the combat phase he doesn't ignore obstacles. I would say no because attacking is in the combat phase where obstacles are not ignored, so if say movement or action results in an overlap of an obstacle that means firepower now equals 0. But okay lets just say that it could still attack. Well if it passes over an obstacle it has also gave the defender another evade die.
36 is still an expensive ship. It cost 6 more points than "Echo". Using one will definitely lead you to a 3 ship build or less unless you decide to just swarm Z-95s as the rest of your squad but I would say you wouldn't be getting the most out of the ships in that build.
Dash Rendar is only 9 points more than the Outer Rim Smuggler, when he can barrel roll, he has one more agility, he's slightly more survivable, and he can take cannons ( you don't have to take outrider). He's only six more than more than when echo has no upgrades, which is NEVER played, because you have to take ACD and VI.
Orrrrrr....you can not give a wahoo about it and just play the game and not worry about tournament listing? Just a thought.
You never know, they might modify how large ships do barrel rolls. With the current large ships (Falcon and Firespray) the current rules for barrel roll are too powerful, and the only way to get it is through expert handling, a 2 point EPT that causes stress. I wouldnt be surprised if they changed how you barrel roll with large ships.
Especially in light of the Outridder + HLC combo.
Also I want to know what the other pilots can do. We know that the YT1300 came with Han, Lando, Chewie and ORS. We can see that this ship comes with Dash, a generic and two named. My guesses are Leebo and Eaden Vrill (Dash's co-pilot).
Now I am hoping that Leebo will share some similarities with Chewbaca, as they were both mechanics. Maybe two super tankable large rebel ships? That would be awesome.
That is less important on a turret ship. Still important, but not as important. The Outrider would be playable as is with the Hawks dial or the Shuttle dial. But it's probably at least as good as the Firesprays dial given it's in universe description.Plus, we don't know the dial!!!!!!
It is impossible to judge the worth of a ship in this game without knowing its maneuver dial, the dial is the single most important element in a ships effectiveness and points efficiency.
On a turretship with either an R1 blindspot, an R1 only weapon, or with only any serious firepower in the forward arc, the dial is critical.
Relativeley reasoned out speculation. It's a PS2 Pilot versus a PS7. Dash has a pretty stellar ability, and 30 seems fair in comparison to the outer rim smuggler.
ORS gets a stat debuff, Wild Spacer doesn't.
The dial isn't going to help the range 1 weakness at all. Short of a 5 forward it's really easy to block a large ships entire dial no matter what is on it. Possibly for several turns. Even if they have 1 turns. Clogbup that firing arc with a large ship at the end of range 1 and every forward manuever and bank is blocked for the most part and every turn leaves you in range 1 forcing a barrel roll to clear range, killing your firepower. 4 unmodified dice is slightly scarier than 2 modified ones, and less scary than 3 modified ones.
Does anyone remember this parable?
http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blind_men_and_an_elephant
Lots of blind men in this thread. You're only seeing part of the picture. Just relax.
Clogbup that firing arc...
Please, please can we make this a new thing? I want to start saying "clogbup" instead of "block" or "crash".
Please, please can we make this a new thing? I want to start saying "clogbup" instead of "block" or "crash".Clogbup that firing arc...
Sure. But that b is a space. . My thumb clogbupd the keys.
Let me take a note from the X-Wing companion App.
The YT-2400 Freighter Expansion Pack has not been released yet, and its contents might still change.
Okay now lets take a look at the preview app with the knowledge that it can be completely redone and the stats ability or point cost is not yet final.
Dash Rendar is not in a modified frigate like the falcon so it has 3 less hull and 1 less firepower than the modified YT-1300 which would be Hans, Lando, and Chewy. So less Stats = Less points.
Lets take a look at Pilot Ability, Dash Rendar is only 7 he can ignore obstacles in activation phase. Question is does he still have the chance to take damage if he moves on an obstacle. Lets just say for the sake of the Op's nerd rage no. Okay good but in the combat phase he doesn't ignore obstacles. I would say no because attacking is in the combat phase where obstacles are not ignored, so if say movement or action results in an overlap of an obstacle that means firepower now equals 0. But okay lets just say that it could still attack. Well if it passes over an obstacle it has also gave the defender another evade die.
36 is still an expensive ship. It cost 6 more points than "Echo". Using one will definitely lead you to a 3 ship build or less unless you decide to just swarm Z-95s as the rest of your squad but I would say you wouldn't be getting the most out of the ships in that build.
Dash Rendar is only 9 points more than the Outer Rim Smuggler, when he can barrel roll, he has one more agility, he's slightly more survivable, and he can take cannons ( you don't have to take outrider). He's only six more than more than when echo has no upgrades, which is NEVER played, because you have to take ACD and VI.
Ranting and complaining about one ship and using the Phantom as your comparison is pretty hilarious.
Tell you what, let's set the naked Dash vs naked Whisper? Whisper gets initiative because of the 4 points more expensive Dash is.
I trust FFG to know what they're doing when playtesting, and constant insistence of undercost, overpower, and broken things are getting old.
What I really think is happening is people are ranting due to FACTION BIAS and they're afraid new toys for the other side will inhibit their ability to win.
RABBLE RABBLE REBEL PRIVILEGE
And the ORS stats are really similar to a PS 1 Outrider. Really really really similar. I gave an extra two points over it at 30.
That is less important on a turret ship. Still important, but not as important. The Outrider would be playable as is with the Hawks dial or the Shuttle dial. But it's probably at least as good as the Firesprays dial given it's in universe description.Plus, we don't know the dial!!!!!!
It is impossible to judge the worth of a ship in this game without knowing its maneuver dial, the dial is the single most important element in a ships effectiveness and points efficiency.
On a turretship with either an R1 blindspot, an R1 only weapon, or with only any serious firepower in the forward arc, the dial is critical.
Relativeley reasoned out speculation. It's a PS2 Pilot versus a PS7. Dash has a pretty stellar ability, and 30 seems fair in comparison to the outer rim smuggler.
ORS gets a stat debuff, Wild Spacer doesn't.
The dial isn't going to help the range 1 weakness at all. Short of a 5 forward it's really easy to block a large ships entire dial no matter what is on it. Possibly for several turns. Even if they have 1 turns. Clogbup that firing arc with a large ship at the end of range 1 and every forward manuever and bank is blocked for the most part and every turn leaves you in range 1 forcing a barrel roll to clear range, killing your firepower. 4 unmodified dice is slightly scarier than 2 modified ones, and less scary than 3 modified ones.
Mistook what you said at the start. Didn't realise you were comparing ORS and Wild Spacer, thought you were comparing ORS and Named Falcon and then moving that reasoning to Dash Rendar and Wild Spacer.
If I've understood the second paragraph correctly it sounds like you're describing how to counter a large ship's dial with another large ship. What if you don't have a large to counter it with?
And the ORS stats are really similar to a PS 1 Outrider. Really really really similar. I gave an extra two points over it at 30.That is less important on a turret ship. Still important, but not as important. The Outrider would be playable as is with the Hawks dial or the Shuttle dial. But it's probably at least as good as the Firesprays dial given it's in universe description.Plus, we don't know the dial!!!!!!
It is impossible to judge the worth of a ship in this game without knowing its maneuver dial, the dial is the single most important element in a ships effectiveness and points efficiency.
On a turretship with either an R1 blindspot, an R1 only weapon, or with only any serious firepower in the forward arc, the dial is critical.
Relativeley reasoned out speculation. It's a PS2 Pilot versus a PS7. Dash has a pretty stellar ability, and 30 seems fair in comparison to the outer rim smuggler.
ORS gets a stat debuff, Wild Spacer doesn't.
The dial isn't going to help the range 1 weakness at all. Short of a 5 forward it's really easy to block a large ships entire dial no matter what is on it. Possibly for several turns. Even if they have 1 turns. Clogbup that firing arc with a large ship at the end of range 1 and every forward manuever and bank is blocked for the most part and every turn leaves you in range 1 forcing a barrel roll to clear range, killing your firepower. 4 unmodified dice is slightly scarier than 2 modified ones, and less scary than 3 modified ones.
Mistook what you said at the start. Didn't realise you were comparing ORS and Wild Spacer, thought you were comparing ORS and Named Falcon and then moving that reasoning to Dash Rendar and Wild Spacer.
If I've understood the second paragraph correctly it sounds like you're describing how to counter a large ship's dial with another large ship. What if you don't have a large to counter it with?
It is true that the dial matters for the autoblaster. But I don't see that coming up very often....
Edited by AminarIt is true that the dial matters for the autoblaster. But I don't see that coming up very often....
I think the cheapest generic with an Autoblaster (no Outrider title) and Engine Upgrade might be an interesting play, particularly if high-PS Phantoms with ACD stay relevant. It's not a great ship in a lot of situations, but it's a silver bullet in others--and since it's likely under 40 points, you have plenty of space for the rest of the list to be more effectively generalist in nature.
Am I the only one that's intrigued with playing it with a HLC and no title? Should be easy enough to keep stuff in its front arc.
But then why would you fly it and not a cheaper HLC platform?
Am I the only one that's intrigued with playing it with a HLC and no title? Should be easy enough to keep stuff in its front arc.
But then why would you fly it and not a cheaper HLC platform?
Well, it's somewhere in the neighborhood of 8-10 points more expensive than a B-wing of similar PS. That gets you at least* +1 Agility, the ability to shoot outside your arc at 2 Attack, and a crew slot--which the B-wing will also be able to get, but that narrows the price gap. You do lose the system slot, but it's at least defensible.
(*We can't compare dials yet.)
This isn't like the TIE Defender which had a stat line cost efficiency of 80% (a hair below the TIE Advanced). The Defender's cost efficiency is bad enough that it could almost immediately be written off as a viable competitive ship even before seeing the dial. The YT-2400 cost efficiency is just fine. Some points:
So, just looking at the stat line cost efficiency, it seems to be priced just about right. Now we need to see the dial and see how the HLC + Outrider title works out in practice. Unless the dial is horrible, it should be a good ship. YT-1300 + YT-2400 will almost certainly be a viable option.
Edited by MajorJugglerEveryone is saying how a 2 dice turret is no bueno or how adding hlc creates a huge blind spot but I didn't see anyone mention expose. I know it costs an action AND you lose agility but it may not be that bad since you have a turret and barrel roll you could be out of the attackers arc. If you need focus than fly with garven or Kyle. Another alternative is running 2 yt2400's together, one with hlc the other with a couple other upgrades covering your range 1 dead spot (ORS would also work as above post said) and still have points for another ship. Any thoughts?
Edited by Jaden Ckast