The CRB says you can "aim a shot or line up a hit", yet the GM in our last session said (to the agreement of the other 2 players at the table) that aiming a brawl and melee attack makes no sense since you can't "aim" a punch or kick in real life.

They argued that an aim maneuver represented the PC taking a few seconds to steady himself and aim his gun, and that in a brawl you don't have that kind of time to line up your punch or weapon swing.

I retorted by saying "lining up a hit" isn't exactly the same as aiming a gun. You aren't cocking your fist back and then holding it there a couple seconds while you line up its trajectory. You're faking out the opponent in order to expose a soft spot, or swinging the axe specifically at the opponents head instead of just a wild slash across their body.

They didn't really buy it. What do you guys think?

They can be aimed with the maneuver, but True Aim, the Talent, only applies to Ranged attacks.

Yeah, this could well be the result of d20 thinking (or perhaps just very selective reading combined with poor interpretation?), but the aim maneuver can benefit any combat checks.

Tell me I can't aim a punch.

Well...tell a guy who knows what he's doing that he can't aim punch

The CRB says you can "aim a shot or line up a hit", yet the GM in our last session said (to the agreement of the other 2 players at the table) that aiming a brawl and melee attack makes no sense since you can't "aim" a punch or kick in real life.

These guys have never been in a real fight, or they have and they think it's just thrashing around. You most certainly can. It's more about timing than anything else, looking for that prime opportunity, keeping cool, taking that extra effort to maneuver your opponent. Game-wise, you're giving up movement or taking strain to reflect the extra attention, so it's not like there isn't a cost.

I don't understand why someone would think you can't aim for a certain body part or wait for some sort of opportunity in a melee. It makes no sense to think otherwise. Feints and blocks until you get that prime moment to strike. It's not Bart Simpson and his sister doing helicopter arms at each other.

I don't understand why someone would think you can't aim for a certain body part or wait for some sort of opportunity in a melee. It makes no sense to think otherwise. Feints and blocks until you get that prime moment to strike. It's not Bart Simpson and his sister doing helicopter arms at each other.

If they make a martial artist spec in any of these future career books I absolutely demand there is a talent called "helicopter arms"....

Yeah, totally you can aim a melee or brawl attack!

It just represents that you're focusing your energies on either landing some blows or on hitting a specific area. In EOTE the 'combat round' reflects so much more than just one single shot!

Not aiming...

Aiming.....

I don't understand why someone would think you can't aim for a certain body part or wait for some sort of opportunity in a melee. It makes no sense to think otherwise. Feints and blocks until you get that prime moment to strike. It's not Bart Simpson and his sister doing helicopter arms at each other.

If they make a martial artist spec in any of these future career books I absolutely demand there is a talent called "helicopter arms"....

Actually I'm hoping that there's a melee class that can get quickdraw.

I don't understand why someone would think you can't aim for a certain body part or wait for some sort of opportunity in a melee. It makes no sense to think otherwise. Feints and blocks until you get that prime moment to strike. It's not Bart Simpson and his sister doing helicopter arms at each other.

If they make a martial artist spec in any of these future career books I absolutely demand there is a talent called "helicopter arms"....

Actually I'm hoping that there's a melee class that can get quickdraw.

Feh....Quickdraw is feeble and unworthy before the power and destructiveness of "Helicopter Arms".....

They argued that an aim maneuver represented the PC taking a few seconds to steady himself and aim his gun, and that in a brawl you don't have that kind of time to line up your punch or weapon swing.

Bruce Lee would disagree. . .

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=en2nM-7XIe4

If that's not readying yourself and getting a blue before the attack, I don't know what is.

So what is the benifit of aiming a melee or brawl attack?

As someone with a second degree black belt, you can aim for soft or exposed areas. Could even cause an automatic criticall

Perhaps the GM is expecting something similar to Stay On Target or Guarded Stance where there is some sort of downside to using the maneuver?

Aiming.

I can see not allowing Aims in melee for game play reasons. When in melee, you're already in Engaged so there aren't as many Maneuver options available. You could easily end up with "Aim Attack", "Aim Attack", "Aim Attack" etc. Disallowing Aims would force the players to come up with different maneuvers to affect the battle rather than just going for the easy Boost.

It wouldn't be the worst house rule I've seen.

So what is the benifit of aiming a melee or brawl attack?

Same as for ranged, it's one boost die., which could give you the advantage needed for that critical.

Also, one more point for the OP, one brawl or melee attack doesn't mean one swing, just like one ranged attack isn't one shot. It could be a series of jabs followed by an uppercut. "Aiming" could be the jabs as a way of steering the opponent into the takedown shot.

You could easily end up with "Aim Attack", "Aim Attack", "Aim Attack" etc. Disallowing Aims would force the players to come up with different maneuvers to affect the battle rather than just going for the easy Boost.

But it would also take something valuable away. And the same static situation can easily arise with ranged combat. If the players are doing that, then the GM isn't moving the opponents around enough, or providing other opportunities for action.

I don't understand why the anyone wants to make melee boring?

Why would a GM want melee combat to devolve into nothing more than a series of rolls until someone goes down. Combat in this game doesn't normally take that long (my marauder can take down most foes in a round or two). It's one of the things I like about it.

Not allowing characters (NPC or PC) to use maneuvers makes melees less exciting, as there are few choices to make. Choices and decision points are what gaming is all about.

Also, one more point for the OP, one brawl or melee attack doesn't mean one swing, just like one ranged attack isn't one shot. It could be a series of jabs followed by an uppercut.

Absolutely. This is an aspect of unarmed combat (and melee combat, in general) that is very often misunderstood.

So what is the benifit of aiming a melee or brawl attack?

As someone with a second degree black belt, you can aim for soft or exposed areas. Could even cause an automatic criticall

In game, if you use Aim, the purpose is to make a called shot on a particular part of the target -- their arm, leg, head, or whatever. With just one Aim maneuver, you get two setback dice added to your roll for the called shot. If you take two Aim maneuvers, then it is only one setback die.

Either way, it's up to the GM to interpret how your called shot turns out, if you should happen to do less damage than the WT of the target and don't get a crit, etc.... So, you can make a called shot for the head, but you're unlikely to off their head unless your attack causes them to exceed their WT or you get a crit.

In game, if you use Aim, the purpose is to make a called shot on a particular part of the target -- their arm, leg, head, or whatever. With just one Aim maneuver, you get two setback dice added to your roll for the called shot. If you take two Aim maneuvers, then it is only one setback die.

That's not "the" purpose, however it is one of the options. You can Aim and get boost dice, or Aim and make a called shot as you described. Both are valid choices.

I honestly can't believe how anyone arrives at the conclusion that you can't aim in a fist fight. That is all two boxers are essentially doing 90% of the time in a boxing match.

I still can't get the image of helicopter arms out of my head

Helicopter arms you say...

Not to add another layer of stuff, but at our table we tend to look at Engaged more like an octagon used in a MMA fight. The two combatants in the ring are certainly engaged with one another.