Sorry I misread what you're saying, but I just wanted to clarify.

I sure hope you’re right, because the way I read it … it just didn’t make any sense at all.

I would be much, much happier if the rule were actually meant to be interpreted the way you have described. IMO, that would still need work to be reasonable, but it would it would still be light years ahead of where I had thought it was.

Sorry I misread what you're saying, but I just wanted to clarify.

I sure hope you’re right, because the way I read it … it just didn’t make any sense at all.

I would be much, much happier if the rule were actually meant to be interpreted the way you have described. IMO, that would still need work to be reasonable, but it would it would still be light years ahead of where I had thought it was.

Yep, I think it's just a bit of confusion with words having overlapping meaning. To be "Encumbered" in this context means to be carrying encumbrance over your threshold.

So to be Encumbered by as much as your Brawn means to be carrying 3 (or 4 or 5, etc) excess encumbrance over your threshold.

I loved the story about the guy with the arm! I'm not sure I'd let someone attach an arm onto themselves, but if somebody went as far as acting it out, I might cut them some slack because it was hilarious

But what I probably didn’t make clear is that the other race in question is one that is well-known for doing exactly this kind of stuff. They’ll cut off their own arm on the spot, then cut off your arm, and then put your arm on their stump, and then integrate your arm into their body.

So, I can kinda semi sorta see that the character in question might expect to be able to do the same sort of thing in reverse.

Okay, from that perspective the whole plan is slightly less insane.

Okay, from that perspective the whole plan is slightly less insane.

What is this weird species that regularly steals the limbs of others? Is this a canon Star Wars species?

The name I’ve heard is Yuzhong Vong, or something like that. But these are a little different than the standard ones you might have read about on Wookieepedia or something.

Among other things, they’re bigger than a Wookiee. Bigger than a Wookiee that is just about maximum height and strength for the species, no less. Big enough and strong enough that they can knock the Wookiee back about 20 feet, with a single melee hit. Big enough and tough enough that multiple hits from an LRB still don’t get through their Soak.

And then there are the ones that are 50% larger than the "normal" size ones. I’m thinking that the big ones are Silhouette 2.

I haven’t read much about this species. I’ve made a point of avoiding reading about them, to the greatest degree that I can. I don’t want to be one of those players who knows everything there is to know about an alien race, just because I’ve heard the name or I’ve gotten a brief description.

I didn’t recognize the name Chazrac, either. To me, they’re just big ugly lizard things that have to die.

[ Edit: Correct typo ]

I too would like to add my take on the situation and what I'd do if I was the GM.

• My flame projector is built into my arm - I don't have to use a maneuver to ready it. Sure, but everyone knows you have it. Useful when you're in a fight but in any civilized world you'll be seen as a combat droid and be treated as such. Imperials will always be hasseling you and social encounters will be difficult. Also, does the droid have hands? No hands, then sure. Yes hands, then the hands are still needed to operate the weapon and would require the maneuver. If you want to do it without a maneuver, then get Quick Draw. It's not that hard to get, especially with the Recruit tree. I also wouldn't allow anything to be hidden unless they had the right talents or cybernetics.
• My blaster pistol is built into my other arm to, so I always have it at the ready. As above
• If I buy a couple backpacks, I can get 20+ encumbrance, they're storage compartments ("But you're not hollow, you have droid-parts inside you...") argue argue, my character, argue Sure, but you'll be extra big. I don't know if I'd go with the size 2 response above, depending on how many backpacks, but I would for sure make him bigger than normal. Role play not being able to fit into most chairs and small human sized places. You want to jump into the cockpit? Sorry, but your bulky body just can't fit in the chair.
• My macro-binoculars are actually my robo-eyes. ("I think you'd have to buy the cybernetic eyes implant for that, or do you mean you have binoculars for a head?") You're stifling my creativity, why can't I have binocular eyes! I'm a droid. Sure, but it'll cost you a maneuver to switch between far and normal vision. If you don't switch, then everything you do will be harder because your vision is set on far while trying to do something close. If you want to do it any quicker than that, then get Quick Draw.

Don't forget about the issue of "you can't unarm me because the gun is bolted on." Well, yes the GM can still "unarm" you. If the attack was mean enough then the weapon could be knocked free of its mounting. Also, the weapon could be made inoperatable somehow until a maneuver is spent to fix it, just like if you dropped the weapon. Parts can be knocked out of alignment and things like that. A GM can always make it so that the same effect for a living character would effect a droid, just have to reflavor it some.

Honestly, if a player was being so stubborn that they wanted to power game, bend/break the rules, and make a character that was unfairly powered compared to everyone else, then I wouldn't want to play with them.

Okay, from that perspective the whole plan is slightly less insane.

What is this weird species that regularly steals the limbs of others? Is this a canon Star Wars species?

The name I’ve heard is Yuzhong Vong, or something like that.

Sometimes I think that entire species was a massive troll on the RPG community...

Reading on the Yuzhong Vong, I see nothing in their Wookiepedia entry to indicate they can or will steal limbs from other species. They do engage in improving their physical body with biological improvements, perhaps the player has misinterpreted that.

Anyway, I think the player's stats for his character are way off. And they're definitely NOT bigger than wookiees. Maybe roughly the same weight, but wookiees would be taller. The average Height for a Yuzhong Vong is listed at 1.6-1.9 meters. Wookiees are listed at 2.1 meters.

And how the heck is his soak greater than 11?

Vong are further described relative to humans, being more muscular and slightly taller. But not to the extent wookiees are.

The name I’ve heard is Yuzhong Vong, or something like that. But these are a little different than the standard ones you might have read about on Wookieepedia or something.

You do know that the Yuuzhan Vong hate technology at the core and purge their entire galaxy of it's tech and moved to our galaxy to purge it also. A Yuuzhan Vong character would be a scout sent to prepare for the main invasion, maybe captured to separated.... but it would do all to return to it worldship. That kind of character would be unplayable.

It's like asking to play a ISB agent in an Age of Rebellion group (all rebels) ... the ISB agent would have to get everybody else captured or killed... that RPG group would be doomed to a bitter end.

If I was that player's GM, I'd just say to choose from a race already provided in the rulebooks. There are plenty of great races already listed that can make for awesome characters.

Yep, I think it's just a bit of confusion with words having overlapping meaning. To be "Encumbered" in this context means to be carrying encumbrance over your threshold.

Like, say, using 'hindered' instead? ;P *shakes fist at page break*

You do know that the Yuuzhan Vong hate technology at the core and purge their entire galaxy of it's tech and moved to our galaxy to purge it also. A Yuuzhan Vong character would be a scout sent to prepare for the main invasion, maybe captured to separated.... but it would do all to return to it worldship. That kind of character would be unplayable.

It's like asking to play a ISB agent in an Age of Rebellion group (all rebels) ... the ISB agent would have to get everybody else captured or killed... that RPG group would be doomed to a bitter end.

Yeaah.. that's sort like playing a reaper in a Mass Effect game. Or a necromorph in a Dead Space game. Or a kender.

It's like asking to play a ISB agent in an Age of Rebellion group (all rebels) ... the ISB agent would have to get everybody else captured or killed... that RPG group would be doomed to a bitter end.

If I was that player's GM, I'd just say to choose from a race already provided in the rulebooks. There are plenty of great races already listed that can make for awesome characters.

If I understand correctly, the player isn't playing a Yuuzhan Vong nor did he ever ask to play one.

He's playing a Duro who lost an arm (presumably due to a random critical hit) and decided to rip the arm off a Yuuzhan Vong corpse and staple it onto his own stump.

Also, in somebody else's game that you guys don't know anything about, please remember that they're welcome to play any alien race as anything they want.

If some other GM that you've never even heard of wants to play the Yuuzhan Vong as aliens who rip people's arms off, please be gracious and remember that's their prerogative.

f I understand correctly, the player isn't playing a Yuuzhan Vong nor did he ever ask to play one.

He's playing a Duro who lost an arm (presumably due to a random critical hit) and decided to rip the arm off a Yuuzhan Vong corpse and staple it onto his own stump.

Sorry for the misunderstanding....

Unless the GM showed the bad guy doing that exact stuff (grafting another person's arm on his body), I would have that character roll a xenology roll with an impossible difficulty with a few upgrades and black dices to boot. And if he manages that roll, then another impossible difficulty medicine roll, with upgrades and black dices, to try the medical intervention.

Anyway... I like what another poster once said... when a player ask to do something, use the "yes, but..."

If your player ask to do something, he probably has an idea in his head.... let him try, but you can always ram up the difficulty, upgrades and blacks... or ask for somekind of task beforehand... etc...

Droids have to go through customs just like everyone else on most planets. Which means going through a search process, and declaring good/weapons. This is where you catch said flamethrower integrated into the droid's arm. Sure he can have it... and the local government will just fit him with a restraining bolt so he cannot use it while on the planet. Any removal or tampering with of said restraining bolt will cause the party to pay a HEFTY fine at a minimum, if not actual jail time, and or revocation of travel visas and expulsion from the planet. All said in a very nice, official female voice that is exceptionally bored... like they get this kind of thing all the time, and even point them to an IG droid that came in recently, and had 5 different restraining bolts attached to nullify 5 separate weapons systems...

All of a sudden, that not always ready (and thus concealable) flame thrower becomes awfully handy, as does that not always active Blaster Rifle that causes the Droid's entire arm attachment to lock into a straight line to allow the barrel to line up properly to get the range needed.

Kevynn

I just keep thinking how lucky I am not to have to deal with these sorts of things outside of curious academic musing.

I really don't see the issue here. Droids are PCs just like any other characters and while you can build stuff in, they don't gain anything more than the cosmetics of being a droid with built in weapons or equipment. Weapons are not at the ready, nor any other piece of equipment. Droid characters, without the applicable talents, must use the equipment in the same way as anyone else. They don't gain any free benefits from the fact they are droids unless stipulated.

The issue sounds more like your brother is trying to take advantage of the situation. Lay down the law, let him sulk if he needs to. Or let him have his way. As GM it is up to you.

I really don't see the issue here. Droids are PCs just like any other characters and while you can build stuff in, they don't gain anything more than the cosmetics of being a droid with built in weapons or equipment. Weapons are not at the ready, nor any other piece of equipment. Droid characters, without the applicable talents, must use the equipment in the same way as anyone else. They don't gain any free benefits from the fact they are droids unless stipulated.

The issue sounds more like your brother is trying to take advantage of the situation. Lay down the law, let him sulk if he needs to. Or let him have his way. As GM it is up to you.

Yes, that.^

It's be like playing a Jedi on the run via Force Exile and expecting to automatically be able to pull off any Force stunt ever seen, read or thought of.

If I understand correctly, the player isn't playing a Yuuzhan Vong nor did he ever ask to play one.

Correct.

He's playing a Duro who lost an arm (presumably due to a random critical hit) and decided to rip the arm off a Yuuzhan Vong corpse and staple it onto his own stump.

Actually, it was another Yuuzhan Vong that tortured the PC to near death, and cut off his arm as part of that torture. The other Yuuzhan Vong then proceeded to graft the PC's arm onto himself.

So, when we fought and killed a Yuuzhan Vong later in the game, he felt that turnabout was fair play. The difference is that he is a Duros and not a Yuuzhan Vong, and he doesn't have access to any of their biotechnology. He was just assuming that if he took one of their arms, it would try to graft itself into him, and then he would be able to use that arm in our remaining fights against them.

Anyway... I like what another poster once said... when a player ask to do something, use the "yes, but..."

If your player ask to do something, he probably has an idea in his head.... let him try, but you can always ram up the difficulty, upgrades and blacks... or ask for somekind of task beforehand... etc...

The problem here is that them GM is already throwing Formidable rolls at this guy, but he's like Luke Skywalker in real life and he can pretty much make the dice do anything he wants -- two Greens against eight Reds? Sure, no problem -- three or four net success and lots of advantage. And we are pretty sure he's not using rigged dice because he frequently doesn't bring his own dice and ends up using mine or someone else's.

So the normal "Yes, but" routine has to change with this guy.

Wow, glad I haven't had any issues like this with my players. The only time that I've heard a droid with an attached weapon without any penalty was on a Prison Guard Droid (Begging for xp acutal play), and that was only a stun weapon, but it still followed the same rules in combat in that it needed to spend a maneuver to charge it before use, similar as if drawing the weapon to other players.

This is your brother though, so a bit more difficult to handle easily, perhaps just explain outside of a session that some of these things make him overpowered compared to other players who all want to have fun, tell a story together, and have a chance to shine in each session.

If it was a player that joined my group that acted this way, I would pass them a piece of paper and pencil. I would tell them to write up their Mary Sue droid fan fic and post it online where no one would read it, if all they cared about was how awesome sauce they were with no regard to rules of the game, logical sense, or the other players.

*edited for typo

He can totally have his gun built into his arm. The upgrade is a Cybernetic Weapon and costs four grand to get a light blaster installed. He wants it he pays. He can totally have internal storage. The Talent Hidden Storage allows it. He wants it he buys it. He wants a house rule for the guns? Sure, he can have guns instead of hands. It might be a pain to go through life like that but that's what roleplaying is all about.

What it's not about is demanding free upgrades to the mechanics of the system that others have to pay for.

He can totally have his gun built into his arm. The upgrade is a Cybernetic Weapon and costs four grand to get a light blaster installed. He wants it he pays. He can totally have internal storage. The Talent Hidden Storage allows it. He wants it he buys it. He wants a house rule for the guns? Sure, he can have guns instead of hands. It might be a pain to go through life like that but that's what roleplaying is all about.

What it's not about is demanding free upgrades to the mechanics of the system that others have to pay for.

A droid can have gear built-in to his body without requiring any special measures. That's the rules. However, he has to follow the rules for that item - including things like Encumbrance, concealment (which is based on Encumbrance), and actions to ready the item - just as if he were a character of any other species carrying the same gear.

This means that an Encumbrance 1 pistol could be concealed on the arm fairly easily, while a high-Encumbrance item (blaster rifle, flame projector, etc.) is going to have big penalties to concealment and is also going to require the use of two hands (or the equivalent).

Personally, I'd let him have the binocs, but because they were not part of the original build, they would have to be cybernetic based... Then I'd hit him with an ion weapon, cause blindness (all cybernetics shut down on any hit, including built in weapons and the like) and proceed to dismantle him.
The built in weapons- others have addressed, they still cost to "ready". And the inventory... does he have any idea how large he would have to be to accommodate all that? He wouldn't fit in any buildings, most ships (less the hanger bay), etc...

Much of this stems from the old cliche' that treats robots as animate shells with copious amounts of empty space within for gadgets and gizmos aplenty.

Bender most famously played this for laughs on "Futurama".

A certain level of irony is present for, while no means real, the varied droids of "Star Wars" (until the prequels) were more realistic than most seen in fanciful science fiction films.

Of course a droid could be simply made bigger than he needs to be to allow for extra storage space.

The droid player has started asking to ignore rules because of his droid-ness. Some highlights,

• My flame projector is built into my arm - I don't have to use a maneuver to ready it.
• My blaster pistol is built into my other arm to, so I always have it at the ready.
• If I buy a couple backpacks, I can get 20+ encumbrance, they're storage compartments ("But you're not hollow, you have droid-parts inside you...") argue argue, my character, argue
• My macro-binoculars are actually my robo-eyes. ("I think you'd have to buy the cybernetic eyes implant for that, or do you mean you have binoculars for a head?") You're stifling my creativity, why can't I have binocular eyes! I'm a droid.

"Sorry, you may no longer play a droid. Your species choices are now Ewok or Ugnaught."

"What? That wasn't part of the deal!"

"I am altering the deal -- pray I do not alter it any further."