So right off the bat, the first game was a huge success. I was let down by Warhammer 40k: Rogue Trader, but feel like Edge of the Empire is the perfect fit. The dice mechanic, the way combat went down... well mostly just the dice mechanic, it worked great. There was never a roll where someone felt they got shafted, because something interesting always happened due to threat / advantage.

The players did a good job on their characters, I'm very pleased. However, this brings us to the only wrinkle...

The Droid.

The droid player has started asking to ignore rules because of his droid-ness. Some highlights,

• My flame projector is built into my arm - I don't have to use a maneuver to ready it.
• My blaster pistol is built into my other arm to, so I always have it at the ready.
• If I buy a couple backpacks, I can get 20+ encumbrance, they're storage compartments ("But you're not hollow, you have droid-parts inside you...") argue argue, my character, argue
• My macro-binoculars are actually my robo-eyes. ("I think you'd have to buy the cybernetic eyes implant for that, or do you mean you have binoculars for a head?") You're stifling my creativity, why can't I have binocular eyes! I'm a droid.

Mostly it's him trying to build his inventory into his droid body in a way that he can ignore encumbrance, the ready maneuver, and not worry about losing the items.

Everything else is going well, so I don't want to cause a lot of waves, but is there anything setting-wise I can use to tone him down a bit? I was ok with having his armor be armor-plating, or his utility belt being a secret compartment, but now he's pushing the boundaries. My interpretation of droids tarting with 175 xp and 1 in all characteristics was they could be stated for their function. So if he intended to be a gigantic cargo-hauler he'd have very high Brawn, but 1 Agility and probably Presence. He's given himself relatively balanced stats and described himself as human-shaped, so I feel he should have similar limitations to the other human characters.

Main thing is, it doesn't feel right that he gets special rules exceptions based on his species (outside of the listed ones, like not sleeping or eating) but I don't want to fight him on it. Should I be letting him have his way, after all there are anti-droid weapons, so maybe if I use a couple of those the advantage/disadvantage of being a droid balances out? Or are there setting bits I can use against him? Something like droids with flame-thrower arms being highly regulated?

Tell him no. Pretty simple really. If he can't accept that and not have a man tantrum, ask him not to come next time you play.

He can add everything he is asking for, minus the encumbrance fairy tale. Some things are pretty simple and wouldn't be a big deal, I'd let him bolt binocs on his head. He doesn't get to skirt combat rules though, being ready with a weapon means having it out and at the low ready firing position. If he walks around like that all the time I'd expect he would draw unwanted attention.

He gets to add 6 cybernetic attachments regardless of Brawn because he is a droid anyway, so there are allowances already as part of the game.

Stand firm. Be polite but make it clear that he doesn't get to have anything outside of what is noted for the species in the book.

Players will naturally try and push the limits, so being firm but fair early on lets everyone know where they stand.

If you don't stand up to him now, it will bite you on the behind later on, and it will annoy the other players.

So think of the group as a whole and the integrity of your game.

(And also, a flame-thrower is Restricted ® anyway, so there's no way he should be using it in public assuming he doesn't to get arrested dismantled and tossed into a trash compactor...)

Stand firm. Be polite but make it clear that he doesn't get to have anything outside of what is noted for the species in the book.

Players will naturally try and push the limits, so being firm but fair early on lets everyone know where they stand.

If you don't stand up to him now, it will bite you on the behind later on, and it will annoy the other players.

So think of the group as a whole and the integrity of your game.

(And also, a flame-thrower is Restricted ® anyway, so there's no way he should be using it in public assuming he doesn't to get arrested dismantled and tossed into a trash compactor...)

Maybe he's licensed to own the flamethrower for agricultural use. Restricted makes it impossible to find items on the open market, but that doesn't automatically make it illegal to own them.

• My flame projector is built into my arm - I don't have to use a maneuver to ready it.
• My blaster pistol is built into my other arm to, so I always have it at the ready.

The actual physical weapon may be readied at all times, but he has to reroute power and activate the mechanisms sub routines to prepare to actually use them. Or "Yes, you may have your weapons readied at all times. Now, add two black die to every single not-combat roll, since you are maintaining CPU cycles to keep the weapons on active standby."

If it's a reasonable request, and it's not breaking the game - then let him have it. The point is for everyone to have fun. If it starts to become lopsided, then you can either try talking to him about it (away from the table, and the others) or start using his droid-ness against him. Everyone has jawa ion guns. Everyone starts treating him like a second class citizen. He cant go into establishments. That sort of thing.

I've got a player playing a droid that asked the same things more or less... I just told him that the parts he integrates into himselfs each cost cybernetics attachments equal to their encumbrances (encumbrances 0 items count for 1 cybernetic attachment).

Also, in the "Dangerous Covenants" career book, their is an attachments that can be use on armors to wield weapons on it... it could also be a good reference to look at for built-in weapons... That attachement doesn't give a free Quick Draw skill for that weapon, it only allows the use of that weapon without using the character's hands. So the bonus of having a built-in weapon is you can use your hands free to do other things like open doors or toss grenades.

Hope it helps.

Also, when fairness and balance are factors, don't think about it as fighting with one player so much as fighting for the other players .

For my own part, if I were to encounter such a thorn of a player I would amuse myself by stating, in a theatrically hammy tone of voice, that they have stumbled upon obviously broken rules in need of balancing and that until such time that the rules get fixed no one can play drioids. Thank them profusely for pointing those flaws out and assign the oh-so-dilligent player the task of playtesting your new rotworm species rules.

Yep, just stay firm and remind him that you're the GM and you're enforcing these rules out of fairness to the other players.

In our campaign we have an HK assassin droid and it started the game with a Blaster Rifle, which the player indicated she wanted to be "finger guns", built into his hand.

After a session or two I told her, I realized this doesn't make the right kind of sense because of the size, encumbrance and power of a weapon like that. I told her she could have a Blaster Rifle that she carried around (and which could be confiscated), but that she could have a Holdout Blaster as "finger guns".

On the Holdout Blaster, somebody searching her would have to roll for it to figure out that its hands are a weapon.

I felt like this was a good compromise. In our most recent session she also mentioned the possibility of having a compartment inside to hide things, like Bender from Futurama. I said it's OK within reason--more like R2, he can hide a comlink or a lightsaber on his body.

I felt like this was a good compromise. In our most recent session she also mentioned the possibility of having a compartment inside to hide things, like Bender from Futurama. I said it's OK within reason--more like R2, he can hide a comlink or a lightsaber on his body.

Remember to be fair to the other players and the game itself...

There is a talent named "Hidden Storage" which states : Gain hidden storage in vehicles or equipment that holds items with total encumbrance equal to ranks in Hidden Storage.

So it seems your droid character wants this talent for free... if she wants a hidden storage, have her buy the talent. Every other players will need to buy this talent, why would she be different ??

I'm wit the standing firm, but if you wanted to go another direction you can."What you want to do is against the rules, but if your heart is set on it, I'll let you do it, but I'm gonna play it straight, so be sure you really want to roll this way before you commit, because you might not like the results."

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• My flame projector is built into my arm - I don't have to use a maneuver to ready it.
• My blaster pistol is built into my other arm to, so I always have it at the ready.
• If I buy a couple backpacks, I can get 20+ encumbrance, they're storage compartments ("But you're not hollow, you have droid-parts inside you...") argue argue, my character, argue
• My macro-binoculars are actually my robo-eyes. ("I think you'd have to buy the cybernetic eyes implant for that, or do you mean you have binoculars for a head?") You're stifling my creativity, why can't I have binocular eyes! I'm a droid.

-sure load up on excessive backpacks and I'll count them as internal storage if you like.... You are now Sil 2 btw. So... Yeah

-macro binos for eyes. No problem. Difficulties to vision related checks at short range will be increased...

Thanks for the points. I brought some of these up with the player, particularly the fact that there are talents which add 1 Encumbrance, to highlight that a free +4 is the equivalent of 20-30+ xp. It did not go well, he felt I was attacking him and that the ruleset was overly restrictive. In the end he agreed to drop the always-ready weapons and the internal-storage backpacks.

I hope that is the end of it. This particular player is my brother, which I think is part of why he is so combative. If it does come up again, I'm going to use the advice that any equipment bolted onto him use up their encumbrance in cybernetic slots. That at least gives me a hard, rules-defined limit to rely on.

I felt like this was a good compromise. In our most recent session she also mentioned the possibility of having a compartment inside to hide things, like Bender from Futurama. I said it's OK within reason--more like R2, he can hide a comlink or a lightsaber on his body.

Remember to be fair to the other players and the game itself...

There is a talent named "Hidden Storage" which states : Gain hidden storage in vehicles or equipment that holds items with total encumbrance equal to ranks in Hidden Storage.

So it seems your droid character wants this talent for free... if she wants a hidden storage, have her buy the talent. Every other players will need to buy this talent, why would she be different ??

I think I did actually mention this Talent to the player at the time. The droid doesn't wear clothes except for a Clint Eastwood-style poncho, so I figured that anything she wanted to conceal wouldn't be any more or less concealable than something hidden by a character.

A character can have an item in a pocket without needing a talent, so I figured this droid could carry things in built-in storage pockets in a similar way. It wouldn't be 'concealed', but it would be carried.

There's a side bar in Core on page 47, stating that droids can treat certain types of equipment differently. Its examples are using "bolted on armor plates" instead of wearing armor, "upgraded verbobrain" instead of a datapad or internal comms upgrades instead of a comlink.

Obviously they'd have to buy these things, maybe at a higher cost than what they're replacing. an upgraded brain would deffos cost more than a datapad. So I don't see why they shouldn't be able to do that. So the last one, the macro bionocs being their eyes seems perfectly reasonable to me, assuming they spent, say, 10-20% more credits on them.

Everything else I am in agreement with most of the other people that posted. Readying a gun takes effort, and bags are just that... bags. You can't hand wave "internal storage" because you bought a modular back pack, a spacers duffle and a utility belt. You'd be a friggen fat robot.
(If they wanted to, they could weld an oil barrel onto his back and use that as a "backpack" replacer... but I'd add cumbersome/encumbrance for that. ;D)

Maybe he's licensed to own the flamethrower for agricultural use. Restricted makes it impossible to find items on the open market, but that doesn't automatically make it illegal to own them.

I usually play 'restricted' items as attracting undue attention if they are being waved around in public. Taking out a beastie on a distant world with a disruptor rifle - fine. Walking into a cantina and waving it around - going to provoke a bad reaction.

A lot of the descriptions of the weapons point out that they are illegal or restricted on most worlds. It seems to make sense that these items are going to attract the wrong kind of attention if you're trying to remain under the radar.

And here we have a droid that looks like the illegitimate child of the Death Star, trundling around toting a flame-thrower. I think local law enforcement is likely to ask all kinds of questions about that, seeing as how combat droids are fairly much banned. I think I'd impose a whole heap of black dice if he tried explaining he needed it for 'agricultural reasons'

The actual physical weapon may be readied at all times, but he has to reroute power and activate the mechanisms sub routines to prepare to actually use them. Or "Yes, you may have your weapons readied at all times. Now, add two black die to every single not-combat roll, since you are maintaining CPU cycles to keep the weapons on active standby."

Even if you had extra arms and could have the weapon ready at all times, there are reasons why you would not want to do that. Have you ever tried to eat with a 9mm pistol in your hand? Have you ever tried to use the bathroom with a flamethrower in your hand? Even if the safeties are on, there’s all the additional mess that you would have to deal with if you got food or sewage in the weapon.

Okay, so droids don’t have to eat or use the bathroom. But don’t they have to do other things? Like fix equipment? Have you ever tried to change the oil in a vehicle with a grenade in your hand?

If the droid player wants to claim that they can go around with weapons in their hands at all times, have them role-play it at the table. Give them a bic lighter and a toy gun that they have to keep in their respective hands at all times, and they aren’t allowed to put them down or change the way they’re holding them, and yet they still have to do everything else they want/need to do as a player.

And keep an eye on them when they’re away from the table so that they don’t surreptitiously put the items down to do something and then pick them up again once they start to head back to the table.

Then there’s the issue of those safeties. Those things actually do take a moment to turn off, before you actually use the weapons in question. If you’re running around with a gun in your hand with the safety off, or a live grenade in your hand with the pin having been pulled, that’s a whole 'nother ballgame.

We had a situation the other night when one of our players was trying to convince the GM that he should be allowed to take the severed arm of one of the bad guys and graft it on to himself (in place of his own arm that the bad guys had earlier severed). The GM wasn’t having any of it. But the player kept pestering him. So, finally the GM told him to lay down on the ground and role-play his attempt to "activate" this alien arm that he had attached to himself with staples and tape and whatnot.

We got video. It was one of the funniest things that any of us has ever seen before.

And the player did a good enough job that he ultimately got the arm he wanted. Now his problem is that the arm is definitely attached, and definitely works. And it has its own ideas about what it thinks he should be doing. ;-)

[ Edit: for clarity ]

Please note, I make these comments as a player who is in exactly this same kind of position myself. I have frequently talked on these forums about what my Wookiee Marauder does in the Thursday night games, but I haven’t talked so much about what my Droid Mechanic does in the Wednesday night games.

I’ve said that some of the items my droid has are integrated into his systems, or in hidden internal compartments. And I think I’m going to have to change the way that I play those things, based on the comments I’ve seen in this thread.

So, thank you to @NorrecV for bringing this topic up!

We had a situation the other night when one of the players was trying to convince the GM that he should be allowed to take the severed arm of one of the bad guys and graft it on to himself (in place of his own arm that the bad guys had earlier severed)

Was this PC a droid, or was he an organic species trying to staple on the severed arm of another person?

If I buy a couple backpacks, I can get 20+ encumbrance, they're storage compartments ("But you're not hollow, you have droid-parts inside you...") argue argue, my character, argue

Make sure to carefully read up on how Encumbrance works in the game. Backpacks and the like will increase your Maximum Allowed Encumbrance, but once you get more Encumbrance than you have Brawn, you lose things like free maneuver each round — and that doesn’t matter what your max encumbrance is.

When you suddenly have to take two strain every single round to do a single normal maneuver, and you can’t take an optional two strain to do a second maneuver in a round, the player will quickly wise up.

Personally, the way Encumbrance works in this game is a pain. I think it needs some serious re-working. But, if you’re the GM, you can easily use it to prevent the worst abuses by your players.

My macro-binoculars are actually my robo-eyes. ("I think you'd have to buy the cybernetic eyes implant for that, or do you mean you have binoculars for a head?") You're stifling my creativity, why can't I have binocular eyes! I'm a droid.

My droid actually did that with Electro binoculars. But he also took Scanner Goggles to cover short distance objects, like you would see with normal walking around. He just switches around from one set of eyes to another, whenever needed. So, no setback dice needed.

Of course, being an LE-series Repair Droid that literally has four eyes mounted in various places on his head, that makes him look even weirder than usual. And is quite distinctive, so it would be a hell of a lot easier to pick him out of a crowd.

Was this PC a droid, or was he an organic species trying to staple on the severed arm of another person?

He’s a crazy-ass Duros who thinks that the solution to any problem is to pull a gun out when he panics and can’t think of a better solution.

The thing that absolutely kills everyone else in the game is that no matter how difficult the GM makes him roll to pull off the crazy kind of … crap … that he does, somehow the player still manages to make it happen. And we’re all watching those dice rolls like a hawk, so it’s not like he’s lying to us about what he’s rolling — he is actually getting those triumphs and everything.

And we’re pretty sure that he’s not using rigged dice, because he does the same thing with dice that he borrows from other people. He’s just that … batshit crazy … with dice.

Imagine Luke Skywalker was real. And he could do anything he wanted with dice. And he was looney tunes crazy with what he wanted to do in the game.

Now imagine all the other players in the game are most definitely *NOT* Luke Skywalker with dice, and most of us aren’t quite that looney tunes with what we want to do in the game.

Make sure to carefully read up on how Encumbrance works in the game. Backpacks and the like will increase your Maximum Allowed Encumbrance, but once you get more Encumbrance than you have Brawn, you lose things like free maneuver each round — and that doesn’t matter what your max encumbrance is.

(Dang it Lith, being the "well actually" guy in three threads in an afternoon, shame on you.)

If you're referring to pg 152, the way that they word it is actually.. annoying.

When they say "encumbered by an amount equal to or greater than your brawn", they're not referring to how much encumbrance (total) you're carrying, by what you are over your threshold. So "encumbered by" is different than saying "having an encumbrance of".

I kinda wish they switched the wording of it, so that instead of saying "encumbered" by being over your threshold, they said a synonym, such as "hindered", so you could differentiate it from "having encumbrance".

So it would read, say, "if you are over your encumbrance threshold, you are considered 'hindered'. If you are hindered by an amount equal to or greater than your brawn, you no longer earn a free maneuver each turn."

If I buy a couple backpacks, I can get 20+ encumbrance, they're storage compartments ("But you're not hollow, you have droid-parts inside you...") argue argue, my character, argue

Make sure to carefully read up on how Encumbrance works in the game. Backpacks and the like will increase your Maximum Allowed Encumbrance, but once you get more Encumbrance than you have Brawn, you lose things like free maneuver each round — and that doesn’t matter what your max encumbrance is.

Brad, I'm not sure you are interpreting this correctly.

I just had a look at Age of Rebellion page 166, under "Encumbrance Threshold", where it describes the rule you're talking about.

You have a "Maximum Allowed Encumbrance". If you're carrying an amount greater than this maximum, you are considered "Encumbered", and suffer Setbacks to Agility and Brawn checks for every point of encumbrance over your limit.

If you are "Encumbered" by an amount greater than your Brawn, you lose your free maneuver.

It's saying that if you have an Encumbrance Theshold of 10 because of Brawn, backpacks, etc, and you're carrying 11 encumbrance worth of stuff, you are Encumbered by 1 point. Thus you get 1 Setback to Agility and Brawn checks.

If your Brawn is 3, then you lose your free maneuver once you're carrying 13 or more encumbrance worth of stuff.

It's an additional penalty for being so laden down you can barely move. It *does* matter what your max encumbrance is, that's how you calculate whether or not you suffer the penalty.

Sorry I misread what you're saying, but I just wanted to clarify.

I would allow the weapons to be integrated into the Droids forearms and that they could be readied as an incidental.

I would have the flame projector be impossible to fully conceal. Anyone searching the droid for weapons will instantly find it.

The forearm mount pistol on the other hand would be incredibly difficult to detect.

The downside to having integrated weapons could be that maintenance or upgrading those weapons is much harder. And beware of enemies getting Triumphs, you might find your fuel tanks getting hit!

Our droid has the very same backpack set up where the backpack represents some internal storage compartments. But you certainly don't get 2 of them.

He also has integrated thermal sensors and binoculars.

Was this PC a droid, or was he an organic species trying to staple on the severed arm of another person?

He’s a crazy-ass Duros who thinks that the solution to any problem is to pull a gun out when he panics and can’t think of a better solution.

Holy crap.

So this player was actually claiming that his organic PC should be able to quickly replace his own severed arm with one he just ripped off someone else's body?

And that he should be able to do it there , on the spot, using staples and tape?

To himself ?

And when the GM rolled his eyes and refused something so insane, the player argued the point?

I would allow the weapons to be integrated into the Droids forearms and that they could be readied as an incidental.

I would have the flame projector be impossible to fully conceal. Anyone searching the droid for weapons will instantly find it.

The forearm mount pistol on the other hand would be incredibly difficult to detect.

The downside to having integrated weapons could be that maintenance or upgrading those weapons is much harder. And beware of enemies getting Triumphs, you might find your fuel tanks getting hit!

Our droid has the very same backpack set up where the backpack represents some internal storage compartments. But you certainly don't get 2 of them.

He also has integrated thermal sensors and binoculars.

The issue with allowing droids to have concealed integrated weapons that can be deployed for free just by buying the weapon and saying its mounted that way is that its doable within the rules already, and an organic PC might consider it unfair that you're letting the droid shortcut.

Take any pistol, add the filed front sight attachment (which is hella cheap anyway) and you get QuickDraw, with an appropriate attached disadvantage.

This same package can be applied to droids as a built in concealed weapon, or to an organic as a sneaky jerk weapon. Same result as initially requested, but delivered in a nonbiased fashion.

So this player was actually claiming that his organic PC should be able to quickly replace his own severed arm with one he just ripped off someone else's body?

Basically. But what I probably didn’t make clear is that the other race in question is one that is well-known for doing exactly this kind of stuff. They’ll cut off their own arm on the spot, then cut off your arm, and then put your arm on their stump, and then integrate your arm into their body.

So, I can kinda semi sorta see that the character in question might expect to be able to do the same sort of thing in reverse.

And that he should be able to do it there , on the spot, using staples and tape?

We don’t know for sure that he actually used staples and tape, but we had tried previously to help him make this happen and to try to help him attach it using what little medical equipment we had on-hand (the player for the Two-OneBee droid was absent, so we couldn’t really justify having the docbot be the one to attach the alien arm to him).

What he actually used, we don’t know. But yes — it was described as staples and tape.

To himself ?

Yup. Well, in all fairness, there was another PC egging him on. But it wouldn’t really have made a difference — he would have still tried to do that anyway.

And when the GM rolled his eyes and refused something so insane, the player argued the point?

The GM didn’t really roll his eyes. But he was being very hard to convince. Hence the willingness to let the guy try to role-play the moment.