Good evening folks,

what do you think about this first attempt of a Wave IV Tourney list?

*Whisper

- Veteran Instincts

- Advanced Cloaking Device (well i believe a Phantom without ACD is like Christmas without Santa Claus ... like cookies without milk ... like dancing without music ...)

(37 points)

*Bounty Hunter

- Recon Specialist

- Seismic Charge

(38 points)

*Omicron Group Pilot

- Darth Vader

(24 points)

All in all: 3 Ships a 10 Attack Dice, 5/7 Defense Dice, 24 Hit points (13 Hull; 11 Shields); PS 9, 3, 2

In total 99 points - the tactic is quite simple. Whisper is the main damage dealer while the two large Ships should form a constant threat, which the enemy can't ignore because of the heavy damage a BH with RC & a Doom-Shuttle can deal to any list. The initiative is very important for Whisper ... out there in the space where some nasty Falcons - mostly with Han Solo as a pilot and he believes that he's able to shoot first. Not in this case!

Thanks for the comments!

99 pts is no longer much of an initiative bid, and if anyone really wants their Han to shoot first, they will give him Veteran Instincts, and there's absolutely nothing Whisper can do about it.

As for the list itself, like all 3 ship lists, you haven't got any room for error so you better be good at not making mistakes

Personally, I would be hesitant to go with a doom shuttle when you've only got 3 ships, but it could work if you are quite sparing with vader's use...

Whisper can take out squadrons alone. I think this list is very threatening! I was thinking a while back about Echo, Whisper and then a Doom Shuttle. Do you think that the doom shuttle is too flimsy if its the only target? Similarly, no one wants to shoot a recon specialist Bounty Hunter, so are you planning on having the shuttle trail behind slightly? Overall, sounds like a cool list.

"Pssst.

Luke.

I am your father.

Don't tell the Emperor. okay?"

I don't get why anyone would take Whisper instead of Echo, she's much better.

Because PS9 and an extra focus are huge when it comes to reliability on a Phantom. Echo is more manueverable than Whisper, but Echo has about twice as many hard counters.

@blade_mercurial

Well 3 ships only right - but two large ships with 10 HP aren't the same like other 3 ship builds (Triple X, Firespray + TIE/Incpt-Support a.s.o)

Well the Doom-Shuttle is a nice support-ship against Imperials. Against Rebels it isn't so good - but it has 10 Hitpoints and can shoot around 2-4 times. Vader is - of course - for situational use. Against shield-less rebels and importan imperial support ships like Howlrunner or nasty flankers like Interceptors.

@Iron Tau

Thx! Yep! The Doom-Shuttle should stay right behind the slowly advancing Bounty Hunter. Whisper should stay on the flank - maybe it'S also a good idea to use him as a decoy to

Doom-Shuttle + 2 Phantoms ... give it a try!

@Glentopher

Like Aminar said.

I used Echo in the same squad before with VI, ACD & Recon Specialist. Well ... against Wedge who shoots first. I lost 3 HP and was then attack by Ten Numb who dealed a critical hit and destroyed Echo ... Initiative and PS are so important with the Phantom.

_

I was able to test the list against a 3 ship Rebel crit-factory - Ethan with R2-D2, Wedge with Predator & Ten Numb with VI.

Ten died first under constant fire by the BH, Whisper & the Shuttle. Then Wedge and after a pretty tough chase the E-Wing - didn't loose a single ship - the Bounty Hunter all his Shields and the shuttle was down to 3 Hull - Whisper untouched.

I wounder if the list can handle Rebel 4-ship builds or falcons ...

99 pts is no longer much of an initiative bid, and if anyone really wants their Han to shoot first, they will give him Veteran Instincts, and there's absolutely nothing Whisper can do about it.

As for the list itself, like all 3 ship lists, you haven't got any room for error so you better be good at not making mistakes

Personally, I would be hesitant to go with a doom shuttle when you've only got 3 ships, but it could work if you are quite sparing with vader's use...

99 will be enough against random lists that have wedge or something, and probably even most hans/barons, but another whisper will be 97-98. Could consider losing the bomb if you care enough about that.

One of my friends got top 4 at 50 player regional and was one of only 2 undefeated players after swiss with 2 x bounty hunter + seismic + bh and doomshuttle, so dropping a phantom in for one of them does sound fun.

I don't get why anyone would take Whisper instead of Echo, she's much better.

Because PS9 and an extra focus are huge when it comes to reliability on a Phantom. Echo is more manueverable than Whisper, but Echo has about twice as many hard counters.

Not really; what counters Echo counters Whisper as well. Whisper is far more predictable and limited in terms of movement; Echo can essentially spot K-Turn while Whisper at some point is going to have to turn around. They both cost essentially the same, and you can take Recon Spec on Echo to get Whisper's ability. Whisper will never be able to emulate Echo's ability.

to the OP:

Not a bad build, but I would be in favour of replacing Whisper with Echo, but learn how to fly him beforehand for at least 5-10 games.

I don't get why anyone would take Whisper instead of Echo, she's much better.

Because PS9 and an extra focus are huge when it comes to reliability on a Phantom. Echo is more manueverable than Whisper, but Echo has about twice as many hard counters.

Not really; what counters Echo counters Whisper as well. Whisper is far more predictable and limited in terms of movement; Echo can essentially spot K-Turn while Whisper at some point is going to have to turn around. They both cost essentially the same, and you can take Recon Spec on Echo to get Whisper's ability. Whisper will never be able to emulate Echo's ability.

to the OP:

Not a bad build, but I would be in favour of replacing Whisper with Echo, but learn how to fly him beforehand for at least 5-10 games.

Whisper only gets hardcountered by a PS11 Han, or theorically (i haven't played against it so i don't know) a PS10 fettigator. You shouldn't have troubles arc dodging with whisper anyways.

Meanwhile Echo gets hardcountered by pretty much any Han build.

Edit - About the list, how do you plan to deal with the mirror match up ? Iniative bid isn't really high enough to ensure you are getting it right, and you don't have rebel captive or gunner.

@Yipikayey

You mean against other Phantom-Builds? The Bounty Hunter gives me the stamina, Whisper the strenght & the Doom-Shuttle is the Joker ...

Serious i believe that a mirror match against a Phantom would be really tricky & depends on the Phantom-Flying Skills & the Initiative ...

Maybe dropping the Bomb for 97 Points? OR let's say Intelligence Agent - so i can take a look on the other Phantoms Dial & may be able to dodge his attacks ... 98 points in that case.

When I read the title of this post I was expecting a list that had Vader as a crew on the Phantom haha.

You may want to consider Rebel Captive instead of Recon Specialist. I think in the current meta it will serve you better. I would also drop the mine, lol, it will give you a better init bid.

I like Boost Shuttle over Doom Shuttle with this because if I were to play against it I would gun for the shuttle first anyway. BH for recon specialist - too hard to kill, Whisper - too hard to kill... Shuttle? Can kill in 2-3 rounds with concentrated fire. I love using EU on shuttles to boost out of firing arcs, furstating the opponents that are gunning for it. Although I do like Vader being able to finish off a ship quickly when you just need that last damage. Vader just worries me what you do when whisper falls early and you have a doom shuttle, but you need something with a little more maneuverability...

My two credits...

So finally i was able to test my list in some matches and the results were very interesting!

After some encounters i dropped the seismic charge & put an intelligence agent in the Phantom!

Last weekend i went to a great tournament with 30 players, where i was able to reach the 6th places with a total of 3 victories & 2 losses.

My second match was filmed - you can see my List against a Falcon (Han Solo with Push the Limit, C3P0, Nien Numb & Millenium Falcon Title) and two Gold Squadron Pilots with Ion Turrets.

Have fun watching it

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bHisS7Kaedg

Why did you accumulate ion tokens and not lose them at end of turn? Your Doom Shuttle would have had a better game if you didn't get stuck ion stressed. I thought they clear at end of turn?

Why did you accumulate ion tokens and not lose them at end of turn? Your Doom Shuttle would have had a better game if you didn't get stuck ion stressed. I thought they clear at end of turn?

No. FAQ page 3 : "A large ship is unaffected by a single ion token; the ion token simply remains assigned to the ship. When a large ship has two or more ion tokens assigned to it, it suffers the ion token effect as normal, then player removes all ion tokens from the ship at the end of the Activation phase."

Thank you. My group rarely uses larger ships so it hasn't come up.

Sooo ... i didn't expect it, but i won the german Nationals with this list

Roseville Minnesota - World Championship - it will be an honor!

I would probably sub in echo too and upgrade elsewhere. Congrats and keep reporting. Any list that has those 3 ships in combo has my attention. I was working on a stigian+ adv sens build phantom and the 2 big ships before the newest ruling killed it.

A much better Vaders Whisper build is Whisper, VI, advanced cloaking. Vader, TIE/X1, advanced targeting computer, and a generic Bounty Hunter

A much better Vaders Whisper build is Whisper, VI, advanced cloaking. Vader, TIE/X1, advanced targeting computer, and a generic Bounty Hunter

And only 2 years late.

you have gained 5 necropost XP