Any idea how flamers and the like would work with the Unreliable quality?

what unreliable and poor craftsmanship flame weapons?

It works exactly the same as for all other weapons, by RAW.

That is to say, it don't do jack, since they don't roll to hit.

Really? That seems very off to me.

Really? That seems very off to me.

Nothing.

Nothing happens.

Really? That seems very off to me.

Nevertheless, that's how it is. There's similar issues with other things that does not jam normally. For example, what happens to an Unreliable Plasma weapon?

Nothing.

Nothing happens.

Actually, plasmas already have the same failure chance as an unreliable weapon. Overheat happens on a 91+.

Cheers,

- V.

Actually, plasmas already have the same failure chance as an unreliable weapon. Overheat happens on a 91+.

Cheers,

- V.

Pretty sure that was his point, since you mention it.

Actually, plasmas already have the same failure chance as an unreliable weapon. Overheat happens on a 91+.

Cheers,

- V.

Exactly.

Plasma Weapons Overheats on a 91+. Plasma Weapons never Jam, they Overheat instead.

The Unreliable Special Quality makes the given weapon Jam on a 91+.

So what happens when a Plasma Weapon has the Unreliable Special Quality?

Absolutely nothing. Nothing at all. Not even a little.

The Unreliable Special Quality really needs a note on effects on Flame/Spray and Plasma weapons, but it doesn't.

Similarly, what happens when they're Reliable? Nothing.

But let's see, what happens when they're suddenly Best-Craftsmanship? Bam, complete immunity to Jams and Overheat.

I'm feeling a homebrew coming up for Craftsmanship, Unreliable and Reliable.

I'm feeling a homebrew coming up for Craftsmanship, Unreliable and Reliable.

Well...

Oddities with Craftsmanship, Unreliable and Reliable:

Certain weapons have special rules concerning Jamming, or not doing so in the case of Plasma weaponry, as it instead overheats. Due to the unfortunate wording of the rules, neither the Unreliable or Reliable Weapon Quality has any effect on neither Flame nor Plasma weaponry.

If a weapon with the Flame Quality also has the Unreliable Quality, it jams on Damage rolls of both 1 and 9. If it instead has the Reliable Quality and rolls a 9 on any of its Damage dice, roll a d10. Only on a 10 has it in fact Jammed.

If a weapon with the Overheat Quality also has the Unreliable Quality, it overheats on an attack roll of 86 or higher. If it instead has the Reliable Quality, it overheats on a roll of 96 or higher instead of the normal.

Might need a bit of tweaking.

Well for one, the chance for Flame weapons is usually 10%, on a 9.

If it's on a 1 or 9, that's 20% chance.

Then if it's again on a 10, that's just back to 10%.

Well, yes, I figured Unreliable Flame weapons should be more... unreliable. I couldn't figure out any other way to do it easily.

Also clarified the rules a bit, just for general readability.

As above, by RAW, it means nothing.

I have always made my flamers roll a percentile for 'failure rate' so in my homebrew version it would jam 91+ like normal.

having a jam failure rate fixed to damage is silly, if you hit 15 people with one flamer its going to jam, explode, go nuclear and open a vortex with how many jam result you get.

You could say Plasma overheats on any miss, follows the logic of the game precisely, making unreliable plasma weapons suicidal at best, like they should be.

You could say Plasma overheats on any miss, follows the logic of the game precisely, making unreliable plasma weapons suicidal at best, like they should be.

I have similar House rule for my Poor Quality Plasma weapons.

Probably have to nick your PQ Flame weapons rule to use.

As above, by RAW, it means nothing.

I have always made my flamers roll a percentile for 'failure rate' so in my homebrew version it would jam 91+ like normal.

having a jam failure rate fixed to damage is silly, if you hit 15 people with one flamer its going to jam, explode, go nuclear and open a vortex with how many jam result you get.

You could say Plasma overheats on any miss, follows the logic of the game precisely, making unreliable plasma weapons suicidal at best, like they should be.

You roll damage individually for every single target with area of effect attacks? That's gotta take some time.

As above, by RAW, it means nothing.

I have always made my flamers roll a percentile for 'failure rate' so in my homebrew version it would jam 91+ like normal.

having a jam failure rate fixed to damage is silly, if you hit 15 people with one flamer its going to jam, explode, go nuclear and open a vortex with how many jam result you get.

You could say Plasma overheats on any miss, follows the logic of the game precisely, making unreliable plasma weapons suicidal at best, like they should be.

You roll damage individually for every single target with area of effect attacks? That's gotta take some time.

Not as long as the Agility Test, the Dodge Test and the test to avoid being set on fire.

Flame weapons are powerful, but they are painfully slow in play.

It's strange that you are allowed a dodge test after a failed Ag test, when hit by a flamer. Isn't that twice the same dynamic?

It would make more sense to say: if you are hit by a flamer, roll a Dodge reaction, if you still have a reaction left.

You can't dodge a spray of fire twice!

"Oh, I dodged the wrong way, let me try another way"

It's strange that you are allowed a dodge test after a failed Ag test, when hit by a flamer. Isn't that twice the same dynamic?

It would make more sense to say: if you are hit by a flamer, roll a Dodge reaction, if you still have a reaction left.

You can't dodge a spray of fire twice!

"Oh, I dodged the wrong way, let me try another way"

As it stands, unless I'm mixing the rulesets up, every single person caught in the cone results in a potential three Agility Tests (Agility Test to (avoid) Hit, Dodge Check to get out of the area, Agility Test to avoid being set on fire). Then, every time it's the turn of someone that's been set on fire, there's a minimum of one to two rolls (Willpower Test to not panic, Agility Test to put the fire out).

Then add in rolls for damage.

I had a player use a Flamer with Toxic Promethium, once. Everyone that couldn't dodge out of the way (which was pretty much everyone) also had to roll Toughness to not take Toxic Damage. Then most failed, so I had to roll Toxic Damage, too.

That single Round took so long it was ridiculous. I think everyone agreed, because he hasn't used his flamer since then. Next session, though, I'd be surprised if he didn't use it, since they'll probably be facing Hordes.

Yeah, the flamer rules are a bit wonky. Basically, the Agility test to avoid being hit replaces the shooters regular BS test.

As such, the skill involved is moved from the shooter trying to aim to the target trying to evade. There aren't more rolls involved (well, except for the catching fire bit, but that's kinda different from the "do I hit him" part).

The Dodge is handled "as normal", basically. This means that flamers are nice for people who can't shoot, and don't work well versus agile targets.