like it alot

Direct Damage is good, I hear. I like all the Tzeentch flavor in the Core Set and how it sets up the idea of focusing on other Chaos Gods in different War Packs - Khorne Pack would be pretty good - Blood for the Blood God and all that.

Now where's my cool Tau preview? And a Tau option for Avatar, please!

Looking good

Sleenesh is the one I want to see!

They look awesome! I'm not even a massive fan of Tzeentch (Blood for the Blood God!) but these look great. Literally cannot wait to get playing this game!

These kind of cards suck ass. I hate cards that interact woth the discard pile. They are just such a pain to use, open to abuse and cheating by asshats. The only way to use this card easily is to use tokens on it to count the cards, yet arguable this information should be hidden. Just a fine example of a bad card.

These kind of cards suck ass. I hate cards that interact woth the discard pile. They are just such a pain to use, open to abuse and cheating by asshats. The only way to use this card easily is to use tokens on it to count the cards, yet arguable this information should be hidden. Just a fine example of a bad card.

I don't really understand your objection to cards like this. How is it open to abuse and cheating? Also, why should your discard pile be hidden? Surely THAT would lead to 'abuse'?

well, when you have cards that trigger off cards in the discard pile.. unless both players are paying VERY close attention all sorts of shenanigans can go on. To be sure of no cheating you need to be constantly picking up the discard and counting it or remembering exactly what is in it.

Cards that are active in an out of play area like the discard pile are not like normal cards that you play in a turn. Played and read and then you look at the game state, and act. These cards require you to see all these cards that are not immediately visible to the eye.

This is a prime place for cheating, and while friends and trusted people don;t.. competitions with money on the line.. people cheat.. ALL the time. This just makes it easier.

Now for sure, the discard pile is not "hidden" information.. but it is not in your face. A simple solution would be to use some kind of token counter.. just place a +1 token every time a monster enters the discard. Still there is a argument that "knowing" the correct power of the unit is 1/2 its power. If the other player has forgotten how many you have in there then they misjudge the combat and loose. Tokens would destroy that type of skilled play.

So at worst we have a mechanism that can be abused by the unscrupulousness and at best we have a mechanism that slows down the entire game to a crawl from players having to constantly check the "open" information of the discard. Or you use tokens and completely gut the effect anyway.

Doesn't matter how you cut it.. it is terribly designed card.

Great Art though... All hail grandfather nurgle!

I think that you're exaggerating how much you can 'game' the discard pile, but whatever, clearly you've had bad experiences in the past with unscrupulous opponents. Also, after a few units have gone to the discard pile it's going to be a moot point really as this unit's attack will be high enough to pretty much one-shot anything in play.

it's a bad precedent. Go po[st a question in the coc forum asking about the YoG Box which was nothing but discard pile effects. It almost killed that game

it's a bad precedent. Go po[st a question in the coc forum asking about the YoG Box which was nothing but discard pile effects. It almost killed that game

I disagree about the bad precedent. I have never played CoC and don't know anything about the YoG Box, so cannot comment about that specifically. Discard pile interaction in other card games works fine, I don't see why it won't here. This Nurgle Death Guard and the Tzeentch card both look ok to me.

No it doesn't work fine... it always sucks

we are not talking about digging cards out of the yard or w/e. EVERY game that has effects like this ends up in errata hell, with timing problems and faqs that are as on as your arm. Just ask the aGoT guys. Mark my words, the kind of discard pile play this is a prelude to is going to be a real problem

No it doesn't work fine... it always sucks

we are not talking about digging cards out of the yard or w/e. EVERY game that has effects like this ends up in errata hell, with timing problems and faqs that are as on as your arm. Just ask the aGoT guys. Mark my words, the kind of discard pile play this is a prelude to is going to be a real problem

I find this argument to be pretty silly to me. It is easily solved.

You: "Hey Frank, how many unit's in your discard pile? Can you count them out?"

Frank: "Sure Gary, I have 6"

You: "Thank Frank, you're a pal. My Virulent Plague Squad melts your warlord's face off"

Frank: "Way to be a **** Gary."

Problem solved.

EVERY game that has effects like this ends up in errata hell, with timing problems and faqs that are as on as your arm. Just ask the aGoT guys.

The discard pile as a known, active game space and the timing problems/long FAQ in AGoT are not "cause and effect." Trust me.

No it doesn't work fine... it always sucks

we are not talking about digging cards out of the yard or w/e. EVERY game that has effects like this ends up in errata hell, with timing problems and faqs that are as on as your arm. Just ask the aGoT guys. Mark my words, the kind of discard pile play this is a prelude to is going to be a real problem

I find this argument to be pretty silly to me. It is easily solved.

You: "Hey Frank, how many unit's in your discard pile? Can you count them out?"

Frank: "Sure Gary, I have 6"

You: "Thank Frank, you're a pal. My Virulent Plague Squad melts your warlord's face off"

Frank: "Way to be a **** Gary."

Problem solved.

ITT: counting is hard.

I guess it's a good thing that Magic doesn't have effects like this, otherwise that game would die super fast. Oh wait...

The discard piles are open, reviewable amd countable by both players. It's not an issue.

it is an issue. Mark my words. I'll book mark this thread and then mid cycle when people are having 10 page arguments about timing and other discard pile issues I'll link back to this thread andal the people in it that have no idea how card game in fact work.

It's a constant. It gets continually evaluated while the unit's in play. The thing being evaluated is public knowledge to both players. I *think* I've addressed the concerns in your original post ... are there others?

it is an issue. Mark my words. I'll book mark this thread and then mid cycle when people are having 10 page arguments about timing and other discard pile issues I'll link back to this thread andal the people in it that have no idea how card game in fact work.

Bookmark this thread, and then you can eat some crow afterward. Magic is the 800 pound gorilla of card games, and has never once had an issue with graveyard shenanigans. I have to very much question your gaming experience if you genuinely perceive this to be an issue.

That is complete rubbish. While I appreciate your thoughts, it might be worth making sure you in fact know what your talking about before speaking.

MTG might be the twilight of card games loved by fools but regarded as terrible by those with taste and the yard play IS a problem. So much a problem that many of the yard cards were completely removed from the game apart fomr cards that trigger as they resolve.. giveing a active window for looking at the pile by both players. Just search the internet for MTG cheats and see how yard play was abused in competitions so much it lead to entire types of cards getting banned.. not just individual cards.

Though of course if you are a noob at card games and have only been in it for 10 years or so then you probably do not know this as you have come in AFTER the changes were made to MTG.

Uh, what? Innistrad block had strong graveyard elements, and rumors are that the next block will be a graveyard matters block too. Runechanter's Pike alone completely disproves your entire argument, seeing as how it directly mirrors the Conquest card you seem to be taking issue with. WotC has been very light handed with the banhammer in standard in recent years, and even modern sees only occasional meddling - neither of which has any bearing on graveyard effects. That's all well and beside the point, since graveyards are also a huge, huge part of commander, which is only growing in popularity. With an attitude like this, I'm willing to bet you're the first one booted from the table in a multiplayer game. Do you cry wolf every time somebody plays a Mimeoplasm deck? "That guy with Lord of Extinction is cheating!"

I've been playing Magic since 1996-7, so not only do I not need to google anything, I'm also willing to bet that I know far more than you do. Which isn't saying much, since it's readily apparent that you have absolutely zero clue what you're talking about. The whole "only fools like Magic" is such a terrible misrepresentation of gamers that I almost don't even know how to respond at this point. Regardless, it doesn't matter what's changed in the past 10 years. You said that graveyard effects are the death of games. Magic still has graveyard effects, and is still going strong. You might as well just eat your crow now and get it over with.

dude, magic is a terrible game of lame mechanisms.. and these cards are a perfect example of WHY THAT GAME SUCKS. Also these are NOT the yard effects that were so bad even magic had to dump them. As I said do some google and you will find what I am talking about.

Still w/e. Belive what you like, I do not care. Just keep this thread in mind once the rule argument and timing problems start to show up in this game.

Please stop confusing opinion for fact. If you need help I can post a link to the definition of "subjective" for you. Meanwhile, feel free to back up your argument (terrible as it may be) with actual evidence. You know, like I just did in my previous post. * People might actually take you seriously if you don't simply tell them to google nonexistent information, though that might be a forgone conclusion at this point.

There are rules arguments and timing issues in plenty of games, especially FFG's. You can sit there and pretend like the sky is falling all you like, but that one card isn't going to ruin this game. If you're waiting to say I told you so, you're going to be waiting a very long time.

*FYI, those effects I listed above ( Runechanter's Pike , Lord of Extinction ) are the exact kind of card you are talking about:

apart fomr cards that trigger as they resolve...

Guess what? Those cards don't trigger as they resolve. They still exist, they're still being made, they still aren't ruining the game. I don't know what you believe happened to the game over 10 years ago, but it really has no bearing on this conversation.