Absolutely I'd keep playing. It hasn't stopped being fun yet. If it does, then it's time to take a break. I've stopped playing very few games (MtG and Mechwarrior: Dark Age for being too expensive, Star Fleet Battles for not having enough players amongst my local group to make keeping up with it worth it). On the other hand, I've had games where I haven't played for a few years, only to pick it up and find that it's fun all over again.

Without new releases, playing all the squad ideas out to their potential knowing that no new things will come into the game would eventually make the game begin to feel stagnant.

That's... really all I have to say.

EDIT: Well, not not actually. I remember playing the latest hottest massive online game, and the developers decided to stop showing server population numbers. How would you feel if the latest hottest game that you loved playing started losing players? The perception of the game changes.

Introducing absolutely nothing else? I think the game right now has what it takes to stay strong, but in many ways Xwing would become like a very expensive and complex board game. There is always the new shiney item from across the wide gaming world (computer games, board games, table top tactical, card, etc etc) and interest would fade.

But I'm also going to answer a question not asked...could the game survive now with just the SHIPS we have. There would be the roll-out of new cards, pilots, scenarios, and tournaments. With that I think the game could go on for quite a long time.

In fact, as FFG reaches deeper into obscurity for new ships, I think reissues of existing iconic ships and characters becomes more and more attractive.

I think this is a game regardless if I stopped playing or not years down the road I can still see myself playing

We play lots of boardgames and we never get bored of them. Even though a Boardgame only had maybe release without expansions or maybe one or two. We still play.

It's a strategy game. Even if no new pieces come out, it's still like a game of chess

I saw it happen before, when they announced heroclix was closing, clix fans stoped playing and the prices of the figures where ridcule cheap, a year later NECA bought wizkids and every one regretted for selling their figures. What I mean is I dont know why people begin to lose interest in some games when theyre cancelled. I still play Starship Troopers the miniature game, it is awesome, and probably would still play Xwing if it gets cancelled

You guys have posted some really awesome stuff so far and given me a lot to think about! Thanks for indulging a silly Ph. D candidate who likes to spend way too much time thinking about stuff like this.

They however NEED to keep doing stuff to continue to drive interest in the game and revenue.

Absolutely true. My question is entirely divorced from financial reality and focused on what makes a "good game" in the abstract--whatever that may mean.

But, that's not the question you asked...you asked if we'd keep playing once new bits stopped being added.

As far as what makes a good game...take a look at chess. On one hand the game has remained basically unchanged for hundreds of years. On the other hand, the game got a revitalization when the queen got a power bump. Also, I have heard that some of the top people in chess have suggested an alternate version where you take turns setting down the non-pawn pieces.

Back to Xwing. I think as it stands now Xwing is like chess, risk, monopoly (crappy game but stick with me here), and many other complete games. It has enough depth to be complex and long lasting in a way just the core box never could be. But that doesn't mean it would continue to be as popular. New inferior games are often more popular (for a time) than older, better games (in the abstract, whatever that means)

Finally, maybe to rehash it. Let's come up with a theoretical wave 6 release. Wave 6 provides everything X-wing may be missing to make it an absolutely top notch, complete, deep, and ultimately repeatable game...on par with Chess. If FFG at that point stopped putting out any support the popularity would drop. The drop would be slower than most, and would probably plateau at some level, but it absolutely would drop.

You guys have posted some really awesome stuff so far and given me a lot to think about! Thanks for indulging a silly Ph. D candidate who likes to spend way too much time thinking about stuff like this.

Ha!

I (successfully) defended two years ago. In that home stretch (which lasted a whole year), I fell back into Star Wars after a long time away. It was a dangerous thing. At the same time, I needed something to give my poor brain a respite.

What sort of program are you in? (I was in International Affairs.)

Also, the way in which this game invites fans to get creative. Some people like to model, some people like to create missions, some people like to make new rules.

Mikael, I think you're dead on about the way this game invites us to invent our own scenarios and mechanics. While it does sometimes step on our toes, I love the flexibility that it gives us. We can pull out the box of pieces and do a convoy raid, a dogfight, an escort, a last stand, or a thousand different scenarios based on whatever we want to do. Again, I think this has something to do with the elegance of the core rules--though many other mini games could do the same thing.

Well, our game has a very rich game universe to draw on. Other mini games do as well, though Star Wars has a very wide potential audience, and as Disney ramps things up, that potential audience is only going to grow wider. I'm crossing my fingers that they don't pull the license from FFG, because that would create exactly the scenario that you OP'd with.

Should that happen, the game might indeed wither and die the way that so many of the other folks, above, suggested might happen. However, that might at the same time put this game into cult status overnight, which could potentially unleash a lot more creativity, even if it does so in an audience that will have a diminishing (and then negative) rate of growth. It would also probably make all the models collectors items. The moment I hear that announcement (should - Vader forbid - it happen), I'm buying up at least two Tantives, and (wife willing) two of everything else.

I certainly don't want that to happen, but it would be interesting if it did.

Yes, there's still some dedicated people that meet every other month and play games, but if those people don't really jive with you, that's it.

Ah, my favorite malapropism. I agree, it's hard when people at the LGS don't speak the same language.

So here's the question: If FFG never releases another set after Wave 5 (and maybe one Imperial huge ship) would you keep playing?

Question 2: Is it possible to achieve an ideal pool of ships, upgrades, and tokens? Is there a danger of this system getting overloaded with options like Heroclix or 40k? It's certainly far away, but could it happen conceptually or does the Flight Path System prevent that? What would it look like?

I would keep playing. Just as I don't stop playing board games because there aren't new expansions, I won't stop playing X-Wing as long as I have opponents. Someone mentioned X-Wing being a war game and therefore needing expansions. I still play Axis & Allies, Advanced Squad Leader, and Battletech. I'd consider those to be war games.

I'm not sure there's (yet) such a thing as an ideal pool of ships beyond being able to field any possible combination for a particular point limit. I think the only dangers of releasing too much stuff are 1) increasing the risk of unbalancing the game due to more and more complex (and therefore, unseen) interactions and 2) releasing ships that aren't unique enough to be worth the use compared to something else.

Your second question is a bit more complex, I feel. How do you define an ideal system? Do you define it as being balanced, where dominant strategies may arise, but counters exist within the rules? Would it be ideal if both sides could do perform/field the same general strategies, such as Ion Locking or Swarms (now viable in Rebel Flavor)?

Personally, I enjoy the asymmetry, and that's not going to go away, since faction specific cards exist, and since neither side can field exactly the same ship, even if they can field similar concepts. Short of importing the entire Extended Universe, I'm not sure we'll have to worry about too many options, and we're certainly well past the point of too few.

One thing I like about this game is that even though each side has been granted some ships that have hefty point costs, their exact stats and abilities beg them to be used in totally different ways. For instance, the Rebels have expensive ships like Han Solo, Ten Numb or Wedge Antilles, but you fly them differently and for different reasons than you'd fly Soontir Fel, "Whisper" or Rexler Brath. (As example, I don't see Ten Numb living long taking on a Huge ships with lots of gun emplacements, but Brath? That's his calling.)

Likewise, the slew of Rebel cheap ships available would fly very differently than an Imperial Swarm, and be used for different reasons.

Anyway, to answer OP's query:

As it stands right now, the game has almost everything I could want. Besides whatever the Imperial Huge could be (c'mooooon Imperial Escort Carrier), there are no other ships that I even know of that I want. That being said, I've never heard of a VT-49 Decimator before. But seeing it and its pilots and crew cards (some names I am familiar with), I am excited to try it out. So if FFG can keep coming out with things that pique my curiosity, who would I be to complain?

Yes, there's still some dedicated people that meet every other month and play games, but if those people don't really jive with you, that's it.

Ah, my favorite malapropism. I agree, it's hard when people at the LGS don't speak the same language.

That's when you need a flight attendant who is well versed in "jive".

As long as they keep the minis on shelves people will play. Once FFG stops producing the minis then it puts a stop to new players.

I'm new to the game but have been watching from the sideline for awhile seeing if the game had staying power before dropping the money on a new game. And the timing of the new movies will help FFG for the next few years. Think of the new ships the new movies will bring.

From the playing the game side. People will keep playing but with nothing new something will come along and get your attention and you will move on. But this game has the "it factor" to have people come back to for many years to come.

Yes, there's still some dedicated people that meet every other month and play games, but if those people don't really jive with you, that's it.

Ah, my favorite malapropism. I agree, it's hard when people at the LGS don't speak the same language.

This is what I love about language - it evolves. Even when originally used incorrectly or mistakenly, once something falls into colloquial usage, dictionaries begin to recognize it and it becomes accepted usage. (See also "curry favour", "demagogue", and like this forum loves to bring up with Wave 5, "decimate")

Yes, there's still some dedicated people that meet every other month and play games, but if those people don't really jive with you, that's it.

Ah, my favorite malapropism. I agree, it's hard when people at the LGS don't speak the same language.

This is what I love about language - it evolves. Even when originally used incorrectly or mistakenly, once something falls into colloquial usage, dictionaries begin to recognize it and it becomes accepted usage. (See also "curry favour", "demagogue", and like this forum loves to bring up with Wave 5, "decimate")

While that might be true, jibe and jive remain two completely different words, hence the malapropism.

As long as FFG doesn't lose the license I can see this game becoming basically the MtG of miniatures games. Having a broad appeal and lasting forever, longer than anyone thought it would. Especially with the Sequel Trilogy coming out and all the ships that will come with those movies, the stand-alone movies, and the new comics, cartoons, and novels to follow. The only risk is Disney pulls the license.

Even in that case, I see FFG creating a new Flight Path game to replace it in a new setting.

But to answer the original question, yes I would keep playing. Maybe less often, but only because of an increasing difficulty finding players. I've waited for a Star Wars space combat miniature game that was good for decades. The game is strong mechanically, thematically, and is just FUN. And that won't ever change even if they stop making new shinies.

So yes I would keep playing, but the amount it was played would have to change unless I was able to find other diehards like myself.

I still play Starfleet Battles and most people in gaming stores don't even know what that is. When I saw the mechanics for X-Wing I thought the movement system was brilliant. Came with everything you need to make playing without a hex map easy. Considering there are a few people like me who, despite the difficulties such as availability of product and players who have heard of it, still play a game like Starfleet Battles I would imagine that the player base for a game like X-Wing would continue to play this game well into the middle of this century.

If it stopped after imperial huge and wave 5. I'd still keep playing, however I fear the popularity would greatly dwindle and I'd end up running out of people to play with/against.

It's tricky. IMHO, if they stop releasing any new ships, interest in the game will wane and wane quite quickly. I know this from prior experience with other games that were discontinued. Usually, not even fan-based projects (e.g. custom TIE Hunters, etc.) would be enough to stem the decline in player interest.

However, I think FFG should beware of releasing too much too soon. It creates a huge glut of product and people will probably find it hard to keep up with all the new releases. It also doesn't give each release its time to shine. You see this somewhat with Heroclix and CCGs - once new stuff comes out, the older stuff (read: stuff from a couple months ago) is quickly forgotten.

I think FFG should release ships less frequently, perhaps one wave every four months. FFG should also focus more on ships that are popularly known rather than ships that are more obscure. A reasonable compromise would be for each wave to have 2 more well-known ships and 2 lesser known ships. That way, FFG can attract more new players who might not know what a TIE Phantom is but might be very excited at the sight of an ARC-170, etc.

Yes, there's still some dedicated people that meet every other month and play games, but if those people don't really jive with you, that's it.

Ah, my favorite malapropism. I agree, it's hard when people at the LGS don't speak the same language.

This is what I love about language - it evolves. Even when originally used incorrectly or mistakenly, once something falls into colloquial usage, dictionaries begin to recognize it and it becomes accepted usage. (See also "curry favour", "demagogue", and like this forum loves to bring up with Wave 5, "decimate")

While that might be true, jibe and jive remain two completely different words, hence the malapropism.

That's exactly why I brought that up - common usage of "jive" has lead to some recent dictionaries listing it as an alternate spelling for "jibe". Granted, not all are in accord, like the OED which people love. But as my professors liked to remind me, dictionary editing, along with etymological research, falls under descriptive linguistics, not prescriptive.

Anyhow, to not totally derail this:

However, I think FFG should beware of releasing too much too soon. It creates a huge glut of product and people will probably find it hard to keep up with all the new releases. It also doesn't give each release its time to shine. You see this somewhat with Heroclix and CCGs - once new stuff comes out, the older stuff (read: stuff from a couple months ago) is quickly forgotten.

Tell that to FFG's LCG department. In Netrunner our meta gets shaken up every month or so due to constant expansion releases... and people are eating them up! In Netrunner, people are still using staple cards from the Core set, much like people will probably be using X-Wings and TIEs until the bitter end.

It may end up being more of a barrier to entry for new folks interested in the game. The Game of Thrones LCG is going strong, but with it's dozens and dozens of expansions, both regular and deluxe, many new players (especially gamers that often are completionists) feel like they have to buy all of them to start. Irrational as it may be, I would probably be a little hesitant to get in the game as it is.

I would continue to play.

About the OT More releases will always require more exponential playtest time the further the number of that wave release is.

I do not mind with game designers to take their time playtesting the stuff, and i don't think taking a 1 month break is that big of a deal.

I have ridiculous amounts of models for GW's Blood Bowl, Mordheim, Battlefleet Gothic and Epic 40K. GW has just dropped them all and is no longer supporting the games or making models for them. That said, I still play them, and will for years to come. I've been a Star Wars fan since 1977, so if FFG drop this game tomorrow, I'm sure I'll still be playing it for a few years more.

Can't see this game going away anytime soon though.

I have ridiculous amounts of models for GW's Blood Bowl, Mordheim, Battlefleet Gothic and Epic 40K. GW has just dropped them all and is no longer supporting the games or making models for them. That said, I still play them, and will for years to come. I've been a Star Wars fan since 1977, so if FFG drop this game tomorrow, I'm sure I'll still be playing it for a few years more.

Can't see this game going away anytime soon though.

It's good to see you playing those.

Now, all of those games were second-tier games behind WFB and WH40K. Have they developed a cult following since GW dropped them?

I was a long-time player of Warhammer Fantasy Roleplay (WFRP), starting with the 1st edition. There were two decades before a 2nd edition came out, and publication for the 1st edition was sporadic or non-existent for many years. However, it always had a cult following, which was (and may still be) extraordinarily creative and productive. Eventually, FFG even picked up the license, though I haven't tried out the 3rd edition at all. (I, my friends, am an unapologetic grognard. Some people might have even considered me a troll on this forum, because I wasn't drinking the FFG Kool-Aid.)

(Dear FFG. Regarding X-Wing... I drink a lot of Kool-Aid now. )

The same is true of the D6 roleplaying game by West End Games. There's still a lively community for that game, despite newer editions.

ANYWAY,

That's why I don't think the wilderness is a very terrible place to be. Maybe Disney will cut FFG off (I hope not), but being cast away is not the same as death. It probably just means that new blood becomes scarce.

Gw dropped specialist games because they were taking sales from the main games, it's that stunning kind of logic which is applied to all their business decisions.

Mid 2000s they had a virtual monopoly in the miniatures area, they ditched popular games people still wanted to play and a host of companies moved in to take advantage.

Now the games sector is growing but gw is shrinking, they did it to themselves.

Gw dropped specialist games because they were taking sales from the main games, it's that stunning kind of logic which is applied to all their business decisions.

Mid 2000s they had a virtual monopoly in the miniatures area, they ditched popular games people still wanted to play and a host of companies moved in to take advantage.

Now the games sector is growing but gw is shrinking, they did it to themselves.

The official word I got from them after emailing them and asking why, was those games weren't turning a profit anymore. Indeed, they are the masters of shooting themselves in the foot.