But then do it again when at range 3 or with an asteroid cover and suddenly Focus is better since you have more chance to dodge everything, read 0 hit. Also take into account that if you don't use your focus in defense, you can use it in offense, something you can't with Evade, except for Kir Kanos. Evade is better when at range 1-2, but the versatility of Focus and better success with 4+ dice should not be discounted.

Both have their moments, but I don't think the lack of evade action hurt the Defender.

I'm not arguing against the lack of evade on the Defender.

And yes, if you're rolling 5 defense dice, you're better off with a focus token than an evade. But... I think if you have 5 defense dice, you're wasting your time agonizing over the evade vs. the focus.

Merry Christmas. At that extreme, the focus is better.

I'm not talking about 5 dice, I'm talking about 4, a situation that happens a lot in a game. Since with 3 dice the difference is trivial and you can't always be sure of where your opponent will end up, especially when moving at PS1 or 3, Focus is more often than not the better choice.

The Defender is an incomplete ship.

You then proceed to fill its voids with upgrades and support options, which means that the real cost of a defender on your squad is its base cost plus all its required upgrades to make it work.

Once you fill those voids with upgrades/support, according to your planned strategy, the ship starts to truly perform. Unfortunately that point cost hunger makes the ship almost unplayable on 100 points tournaments. The ship will be more commonly sighted on epic play format.

Essentially, if you check posts about the defender you can see 2 main lines of thinking:

- Man, I used a defender last night, [Naked] and it sucks!!!....

- Wow man!, I used a defender last night [with HLC/EU] and it rocks!!...

Well, that's by all means, the definition of an incomplete ship.

And if you ask me, I still think that FFG way overrated the white K-turn. In fear of making the ship too powerful, FFG sliced every other aspect of the ship due to an ability that will truly provide an advantage... how many times? Once? maybe 2 times per entire battle?

Man, I used an Interceptor last night, (Naked) and it sucks!!!...

Wow man! I used an Interceptor last night (with PtL) and it rocks!!....

I don't consider the Interceptor incomplete, but upgrade do tends to make ships better.

I'm not talking about 5 dice, I'm talking about 4, a situation that happens a lot in a game. Since with 3 dice the difference is trivial and you can't always be sure of where your opponent will end up, especially when moving at PS1 or 3, Focus is more often than not the better choice.

You're right, I read too quickly. I thought you said range 3 and behind an asteroid. You wrote 'or'. My bad.

I had hoped to rely on the websites that s1n posted, but either I'm reading them wrong or they give different numbers. Maybe they're calculating crits differently. Still, by what I see the evade is still slightly better, or it breaks even.

But I'll confess to not running the math on my own on this one, so if you can show me the numbers I'll be happy to believe you.

So... the Defender?

Calculate for using the focus for defense on one of n attacks during a round, when the attacks do more damage than you have evades show up. That math is a wee bit more complicated than just the averages, as you'd not spend an evade or a focus token if you rolled enough evades to not spend the token in the first place, or if the attacker rolled no hits.

We know that if we have multiple attacks, we can theoretically spend the focus token at the most opportune time, but that is tricky too, because we don't know if a future roll will have a focus result... So if we pass up the first chance, and the second chance... When is the best time to use the focus token?

Don't forget that even the evade is risky, as you're not guaranteed to need the evade token, there's a chance you wasted your action. So... Target lock instead 8)

A focus gives you 25% more chance to evade per dice, so when rolling 4 dice, you should, in average get 1 focus result, which equal the 1 evade the Evade token gives. Of course, it,s only an average so sometimes it will come to 0, other to 2-3-4. What Evade gives you over the Focus token is the certainty that you will have at least 1 Evade result. Very useful when in a Tie Fighter or Interceptor to avoid the dreaded one shot kill, but on a ship with shields to take the hit, the Focus gamble pay off in the long run since you can use it on offense if you didn't use it for defense.

On a 3 dice defense, you are mathematicaly better with the evade token but only by a slight margin. Running the application s1n posted, against a focus 3 dice attacker, there is 54% chance to dodge everything with a 3 agility+Focus and 61% to dodge everything with a 3 agility+Evade. That's not much of a difference. Given that I can also use the token on offense and I'm sure to not get destroyed even if I dodge blank, that 7% is not that great.

Where Evade really shine is when the attacker roll more dice than the defender, that's the only way to dodge everything.

So... the Defender?

The more I play with it, the more I like the ship. It's fast and reliable, it can joust or flank, whatever fits your fancy. You can turn it into a big hitter with the HLC, a controller with a Ion Cannon, a flanker with the Engine Upgrade or just take it vanilla to add some durability to the team. Like any other ship, don't fall into the trap of overupgrading it since it can drop fast to concentrate fire.

Next team that I want to try is:

Onyx Squadron Pilot x2

Alpha Squadron Pilot x2

or switch the 2 Alpha for 3 Academy Pilot.... Or both Onyx for Deltas with HLC and both Alpha for Obsidians..... too many options!

Get with the HLC, greettings.

Played a bunch of games this weekend and got to try out some new things. The one that really stood out and impressed me was this build:

Delta Squadron

Howlrunner + Swarm Tactics

Backstabber

Dark Curse

Black Squadron + Predator

It comes in at 99 points, and I went 5-0 with it. Took down two 5-ship rebel builds, a Phantom build, HSF, and an XXE build. Ran it as a mini-swarm of elite pilots on one side and the Defender on the other. Opponent's had to choose where to focus their main attack which left me open hit with the opposing force. The Defender was a champion, only got vaped once (by Han), and killed it in the end game.

I used Col. Vessery naked and it was fun.

What you do in the privacy of your own home is your own business...

I used Col. Vessery naked and it was fun.

What you do in the privacy of your own home is your own business...

Internet dude there is no privacy any more, let it all hang out.

Ran Wedge + Ten Nunb vs. Delta Squad (Assault Missiles, Munitions Failsafe) + Academy TIE x2 last night. I managed to take down the Defender's shields and stick a damage to it and to one of the TIEs before both my guys bought it. Tough game, and the Defender's 4 K bounced it all over the B-Wing and tore me to pieces.

Watched a YouTube video yesterday dad and his son playing, I watched in horror as the kid did a right angle turn instead of using the k turn, he could of placed himself behind two x-wings at range one instead he let three ships get behind him.

The Defender is an incomplete ship.

Man, I used an Interceptor last night, (Naked) and it sucks!!!...

Wow man! I used an Interceptor last night (with PtL) and it rocks!!....

I don't consider the Interceptor incomplete, but upgrade do tends to make ships better.

Who knows, maybe the interceptor is, or at least were, an incomplete ship too.

But as far as I know, the interceptor has its own expansion pack to 'enhance' it, so maybe just maybe, everything wasn't fully OK with it in first place...

The Defender is an incomplete ship.

Man, I used an Interceptor last night, (Naked) and it sucks!!!...

Wow man! I used an Interceptor last night (with PtL) and it rocks!!....

I don't consider the Interceptor incomplete, but upgrade do tends to make ships better.

Who knows, maybe the interceptor is, or at least were, an incomplete ship too.

But as far as I know, the interceptor has its own expansion pack to 'enhance' it, so maybe just maybe, everything wasn't fully OK with it in first place...

So since the B-Wing is also getting an expansion pack, are you saying it is currently incomplete?

I've been playing around with it a little bit, and actually like it quite a bit. That white K-turn is magnificent, and the rest of the dial gives you access to pretty much anything else you need to do. I've found that combinations of banks and K-turns let you do close-range dogfighting pretty well. I've been running a 33 point version with Ion Cannon. The ability to lock down a target and then dance around it has been pretty useful. It's a tough ship, and I think the PS 1 actually serves it pretty well. You can crash in for close-range shots without worrying about hitting something, and the white K-turn is great in the dogfight. Overall the ship with Ion Cannon strikes me as a pretty good counter to tricked out B-wings. It's tough enough to trade some hits, and the IC hits the Bs pretty easily, shutting down Advanced Sensors and making it easy to bring a lot of supporting Academy Pilots in to get shots.

I'm pretty new to the game, though. Maybe I'm missing something.

I really want to love the Defender, but the lack of generic with EPT really takes the wind out of my sails. Imperial Aces 2 with TIE/A and TIE/D please ^.^

I really want to love the Defender, but the lack of generic with EPT really takes the wind out of my sails. Imperial Aces 2 with TIE/A and TIE/D please ^.^

Sadly I'd rather skip the Advanced for Bombers. Bombers are more fun.

I've been playing around with it a little bit, and actually like it quite a bit. That white K-turn is magnificent, and the rest of the dial gives you access to pretty much anything else you need to do. I've found that combinations of banks and K-turns let you do close-range dogfighting pretty well. I've been running a 33 point version with Ion Cannon. The ability to lock down a target and then dance around it has been pretty useful. It's a tough ship, and I think the PS 1 actually serves it pretty well. You can crash in for close-range shots without worrying about hitting something, and the white K-turn is great in the dogfight. Overall the ship with Ion Cannon strikes me as a pretty good counter to tricked out B-wings. It's tough enough to trade some hits, and the IC hits the Bs pretty easily, shutting down Advanced Sensors and making it easy to bring a lot of supporting Academy Pilots in to get shots.

I'm pretty new to the game, though. Maybe I'm missing something.

Thing is, 33 points gives you Soontir Fel with PTL and stealth device. After playing with both, I'm more confident about Soontir's survival and overall efficacy. He's better at getting out of firing arcs, and can both focus and evade if necessary. And he gives you a ship that can shoot or move before Whisper, depending on initiative.

Essentially, what's not clear to people is whether or not Defenders are worth the points. 30 points for PS1 is steep.

I've been playing around with it a little bit, and actually like it quite a bit. That white K-turn is magnificent, and the rest of the dial gives you access to pretty much anything else you need to do. I've found that combinations of banks and K-turns let you do close-range dogfighting pretty well. I've been running a 33 point version with Ion Cannon. The ability to lock down a target and then dance around it has been pretty useful. It's a tough ship, and I think the PS 1 actually serves it pretty well. You can crash in for close-range shots without worrying about hitting something, and the white K-turn is great in the dogfight. Overall the ship with Ion Cannon strikes me as a pretty good counter to tricked out B-wings. It's tough enough to trade some hits, and the IC hits the Bs pretty easily, shutting down Advanced Sensors and making it easy to bring a lot of supporting Academy Pilots in to get shots.

I'm pretty new to the game, though. Maybe I'm missing something.

Thing is, 33 points gives you Soontir Fel with PTL and stealth device. After playing with both, I'm more confident about Soontir's survival and overall efficacy. He's better at getting out of firing arcs, and can both focus and evade if necessary. And he gives you a ship that can shoot or move before Whisper, depending on initiative.

Essentially, what's not clear to people is whether or not Defenders are worth the points. 30 points for PS1 is steep.

But Soontir and a Defender can suit very different roles in a squad. What I think is that it will take time for people to figure out what roll they find the Defender suited for. Yes, the Baron is better at arc dodging, but that is what he is designed to do! The Defender really is not meant to be an arc dodger. People need to try out different roles for it and figure out what works best for you and your squads.

I've been playing around with it a little bit, and actually like it quite a bit. That white K-turn is magnificent, and the rest of the dial gives you access to pretty much anything else you need to do. I've found that combinations of banks and K-turns let you do close-range dogfighting pretty well. I've been running a 33 point version with Ion Cannon. The ability to lock down a target and then dance around it has been pretty useful. It's a tough ship, and I think the PS 1 actually serves it pretty well. You can crash in for close-range shots without worrying about hitting something, and the white K-turn is great in the dogfight. Overall the ship with Ion Cannon strikes me as a pretty good counter to tricked out B-wings. It's tough enough to trade some hits, and the IC hits the Bs pretty easily, shutting down Advanced Sensors and making it easy to bring a lot of supporting Academy Pilots in to get shots.

I'm pretty new to the game, though. Maybe I'm missing something.

Thing is, 33 points gives you Soontir Fel with PTL and stealth device. After playing with both, I'm more confident about Soontir's survival and overall efficacy. He's better at getting out of firing arcs, and can both focus and evade if necessary. And he gives you a ship that can shoot or move before Whisper, depending on initiative.

Essentially, what's not clear to people is whether or not Defenders are worth the points. 30 points for PS1 is steep.

But Soontir and a Defender can suit very different roles in a squad. What I think is that it will take time for people to figure out what roll they find the Defender suited for. Yes, the Baron is better at arc dodging, but that is what he is designed to do! The Defender really is not meant to be an arc dodger. People need to try out different roles for it and figure out what works best for you and your squads.

The Defender may very well play a different role, but that's not my point. My point is that Soontir with PTL is the same cost as a PS1 Defender. Furthermore, I'm predicting that Soontir, if flown decently, has similar damage output and greater survivability against most ships (on average). Vs non-turret ships, he'll dodge firing arcs, and against Falcon's with gunner, he can focus + evade and get an additional focus from his ability (this is also great if there are multiple ships firing at him!).

Soontir is just one example of what you can buy instead of a Defender. I've enjoyed flying it and trying to work it into builds, but in the end, I can't justify the cost. At this point, I'll continue to fly it for fun, but I wouldn't take it to a tournament in its current shape.

Like I said, I'm new. I haven't played with interceptors, despite them being my favorite TIE, because I know I would be overly aggressive and get them killed. That being said, I think the Defender and Fel bring pretty radically different things to the board, though. Fel is all about not getting shot at. The Defender is tougher and can be used more aggressively, and is far more resistant to bad luck. Fel seems to be a late game flanker sort of ship. You can't commit him when too many things are on the board because he might get caught and get unlucky, so he stays around the edges. The Defender rushes in to attack a key target, then transitions into an avoidance ship using the white K-turn after it takes enough hits.

It might be overcosted by a point or two, but I don't think it's drastic. I'm pretty confident, however, that it's more balanced than the TIE Advanced. I am having trouble picturing playing the Defender without that Ion Cannon upgrade, though. That offers a huge amount of utility for a modest price increase.

Like I said, I'm new. I haven't played with interceptors, despite them being my favorite TIE, because I know I would be overly aggressive and get them killed. That being said, I think the Defender and Fel bring pretty radically different things to the board, though. Fel is all about not getting shot at. The Defender is tougher and can be used more aggressively, and is far more resistant to bad luck. Fel seems to be a late game flanker sort of ship. You can't commit him when too many things are on the board because he might get caught and get unlucky, so he stays around the edges. The Defender rushes in to attack a key target, then transitions into an avoidance ship using the white K-turn after it takes enough hits.

It might be overcosted by a point or two, but I don't think it's drastic. I'm pretty confident, however, that it's more balanced than the TIE Advanced. I am having trouble picturing playing the Defender without that Ion Cannon upgrade, though. That offers a huge amount of utility for a modest price increase.

I've learned not to fly the Defender aggressively, especially early game. It's simply cost prohibitive to do so. The 6 HP is nice, but it doesn't have very many options to mitigate damage. If you lose the Defender early from focus fire, that's almost a third of your points out the window. It's a ship that you want to survive to see the end game, because that's when the white k-turn really shines. In that respect, it's role isn't all that different from Soontir's.

No evade means no option for guaranteed damage reduction and no possible focus+evade combo, and as others have stated, it simply has bad action economy. The green dial makes taking PTL a bad idea and it lacks a systems slot. Hell, look at the Ewing. It's costly, but cheaper than the Defender. With an astromech and systems slot, it has fantastic flexibility to enhance its maneuverability and offensive or defensive capacity. Its green dial is more PTL-friendly and it can focus + evade. You can make its dial even more PTL-friendly by taking the 1 point R2 astromech, and it's an amazing combo with advanced sensors (perform two actions then reveal a green maneuver!). Hell, combine that with engine upgrade and you can boost+barrel roll before you reveal your maneuver. It will run you a lot of points, but it's very easy to see that you get what you pay for, unlike the Defender.

Maybe I've not gotten too unlucky in my few games, but the 6 HP combined with AGI 3 really seems to be making them last long enough to get into knife-fight range where Ions and the white K-turn get really mean.

Rexler+HLC+Outmaneuver.

Currently the scariest ship in the game to be shot at by. 47 points.

No one else can reliably hit you with 4 crits from Range 3 with -1(-2 functionally) evade dice