People have said everything I wanted to say already, so I'm just +1 another 40K convert. Love the fact that I almost have as many X-Wing games in 1.5 months than my 40K games in 4 years, woot!

I've picked this up as it does offer something very few other games do (off the top of my head, only Bloodbowl to a certain extent)

Precise movement that still contains an element of guess work.

I've paid almost all GW games, Infinity, Malifaux (both editions) and the most common argument is "that move doesn't look right" 'are you sure that's X" ' and complaints about how people measure and all the other oddities. X-Wing does away with all that with the movement rulers and precise placement (clumsy people not withstanding) while stopping pre-measuring occurring, so you still have to estimate where you and your opponent will end up (which almost always ensures a collision!)

The other reasons people mention also apply to Reasons for X-Wing conversion.

I agree with the comments on x-wing here in this thread, and also agree with you on the GW as well.

I still play Fantasy and 40K occasionally. Love the miniatures, love the painting, but here in Australia the prices of GW codexes and a lot of the miniatures do seem to be getting even more out of whack with reality than some other countries. And with all the releases in 40K codexes and supplements there is now an overabundance of rules to sort through, unnecessarily increasing the complexity of the game.

As someone else stated, x-wing has simple rules that have a surprising depth. And less expensive, depending on how many models you want to have in your collection. Go FFG! (GW should learn from these guys and more.)

Yeah GW screws the Australian hard on price and have now stopped you even buying over seas which was the only real way to keep it affordable, frankly that company is going to self destruct in the next few years do to incompetent management, hopefully what emerges from the ashes will be better.

It speaks volumes you can get a full tie swarm for the price of the 40k rulebook and the codex you need for your army.

Even here down under it's largely made in china. I can barely find anything much that is made here in my country.

I hear you. Their business model may need an overhaul.

At say around $16 for an x wing model here from my supplier here (or maybe cheaper on eBay, depending on postage, please don't get me started on some of the postage/shipping/customs charges for the rest of the world to here), I can get around 10 (nearly a full squadron) of these for the price of an Imperial Knight ($155, nice miniature though.)

Yeah it's no wonder alot collect both sides, £500+ for an army is insane pricing by gw and it's clear why people avoid the hobby these days or leave because it's too costly.

But we won't see price cuts until they collapse which will be soonish given the shrink in market share they are suffering as people move on to better games that just happen to be cheaper as well.

I'm not sure I understand all the GW doomsaying. The owners of my LGS tell me that 40k is as popular as it's ever been.

As somebody who started a few weeks ago, reasons i think why it can be picked up easily:

- Low entry barrier. The game isn't really cheap to collect afterwards, but it is really cheap to start, specially with a friend, and have something to play the standard point value (100).

- Rules are accessible, simple and easy to pick up, but the game is hard to master. This also have something really interesting for me, i haven't had a discussion in this game yet. Not a single one. In infinity or warhammer i would had had my good amount by now.

- List variety. There are a lot of different lists that are play out differently. I think this is because the game only has 2 factions, so there is not that "need" to make those 20 different space marine chapters different, give them very specific rules to make them real specialist in one area, so you can only end up playing them a few different ways only.

- Game doesn't take more than 1 hour to play. I usually play 2-3 games in 3 hours, taking breaks, having fun. It is just amazing.

My only problem right now, is that there are a lot of people playing it, they are scattered in different groups, we are having a tourney this weekend, and i am not even sure we will get to a 10 persons event.

@Wonderwaagh That can be your area, but 40k in my zone is definitly the least played game right now, infinity being the most played, xwing the second most, and warhammer fantasy being basically dead. And yes, there are plenty of reasons to doomsay about GW, but i think we should take that debate to other forums more suited for people interested in GW's games.

Thank you for your comment. I didn't want to appear to be doom saying.

I did some research today into tarrifs and the cost of doing business here. We have a high cost of doing business here in this country, even with some of the lowest tarriffs in the world. This is having a big impact on prices here. I shall eat a bit of humble pie, and if i want to buy more models from gw I will just have to save up.

I also agree with @DreadStar about debating this on other forums more suited to GW's product and and i will also write constructively and nicely to GW themselves about any issues with them and their products and our state and federal MP's about the high costs of doing business here.

I shall refrain from posting about GW in these forums .

I'm not sure I understand all the GW doomsaying. The owners of my LGS tell me that 40k is as popular as it's ever been.

That just means it's doing well there, if you look at actual numbers while the sector is growing by 20% gw has a decreasing share of the market, and plenty of people on warseer will tell you in their area it's shifted from 40k to warmahordes or x-wing.

No one wants 40k gone but lots want the clowns running gw out and people with a clue to take over.

This pretty much sums it up for me.

I've never played other miniature nor tabletop games - it's been PC / console games all the way since Galaxians & ZX Spectrum.

My wife bought me the Xwing core set for Christmas coz it said Star Wars on the box - I was a little bit bemused at first, but I love the miniatures themselves, nice and collectable...the fact that the rules seem pretty straightforward, the game is actually such good fun is an added bonus

As somebody who started a few weeks ago, reasons i think why it can be picked up easily:

- Low entry barrier. The game isn't really cheap to collect afterwards, but it is really cheap to start, specially with a friend, and have something to play the standard point value (100).

- Rules are accessible, simple and easy to pick up, but the game is hard to master. This also have something really interesting for me, i haven't had a discussion in this game yet. Not a single one. In infinity or warhammer i would had had my good amount by now.

- List variety. There are a lot of different lists that are play out differently. I think this is because the game only has 2 factions, so there is not that "need" to make those 20 different space marine chapters different, give them very specific rules to make them real specialist in one area, so you can only end up playing them a few different ways only....

coming across from 40k

- rules are accessible and easy to learn but also have a huge amount of tactical depth to master

- pre painted miniatures at a good standard. cannot express how much this attracts me

- club nights are 3 hours. i can get 2 games of x wing in 3 hours. i can get 1 game of 40k

- it's star wars

- the game is well supported by its maker, in FAQs, releases, balance/playtesting and tournaments

- huge amounts of customisability even buying the core set, an xwing expansion and b wings, making changing lists and styles a breeze

- speaking of buying - i have bought a core set, 2 xwing expansions, a y wing and 2 b wings, so about £80. that is enough for well over 100 points with lots of options. £80 would not get me a functional army in 40k, fantasy, hordes or many of the other minis games ive played over the last few years. maybe malifaux.

Cost first off this game costs a fraction of a Games Workshop game. I can buy 3 ships to one box of infantry.

Also the game has balance, and is well written. I rarely find my self consulting the rule book.

I'm not sure I understand all the GW doomsaying. The owners of my LGS tell me that 40k is as popular as it's ever been.

That just means it's doing well there, if you look at actual numbers while the sector is growing by 20% gw has a decreasing share of the market, and plenty of people on warseer will tell you in their area it's shifted from 40k to warmahordes or x-wing.

No one wants 40k gone but lots want the clowns running gw out and people with a clue to take over.

At my FLGS the 40K group has split into 2 factions 7th ed players, and 6th ed players. However more and more players are just quitting the game all together. Were seeing Warmachine/Hordes return, X-wing sales picking up, Infinity is starting to be carried, and people are starting to talk about Warpath, Kings of War, and Deadzone. So I think it's safe to say GW is about to see it's decline.

I would say quicker games, ease of play, great community, no models to paint and assemble - unless you want to - so you can play straight out of the box, its Star Wars lol and off course its a good solid balanced game.

True the price point per ship is high but with the waves being so far apart you can save for the next wave, compared to some games you don't need a bazillion models for an average size game

Unless you're only joining now and have to catch up

Im an ex 40k and fantasy player as well as GW's closest comparison to this battlefleet gothic (sigh...) and as its already been listed, its cheaper, its ready to go straight out the box, its relatively simple and for me the real defining point is that bar one or two configurations there's no 'ive put X model down, i've won the game'. You can put down what you want, but if you don't have a good grasp of what to do with it, it wont get you far.

That and its Star Wars

Actually, the closest was Aeronautica Imperialis - an out-and-out 40k dogfighting game and a really good one, with similar quality and depth to X-wing (it even threw in 3d dogfighting!).

Sadly it never got too much support - there was never a boxed set and as a forgeworld game, not a games workshop one it got no page space in white dwarf. More importantly, there was no reason to buy any more stuff once you'd got the rulebook and half a dozen fighters, which didn't cost you much....

X-wing's business model which tempts you with new upgrades and weapons even if you're not interested in the ship in question is a very intelligent one, as has been FFG's restraint in releasing things slowly. Everything ever released for AI was out within a few months and the result was "....and then what? Oooh shiny new codex" and it died.

It also suffered a lot from a lack of store support - GW has never sold stuff through their high street stores and for that matter didn't support play for their specialist games.

Simple, balanced rules with great looking pre-painted minis at an affordable price. It's also Star Wars.

Unless you're only joining now and have to catch up

Im an ex 40k and fantasy player as well as GW's closest comparison to this battlefleet gothic (sigh...) and as its already been listed, its cheaper, its ready to go straight out the box, its relatively simple and for me the real defining point is that bar one or two configurations there's no 'ive put X model down, i've won the game'. You can put down what you want, but if you don't have a good grasp of what to do with it, it wont get you far.

That and its Star Wars

I got into gaming through 40K and Fantasy but gave that up a few years ago, not so much because of the cost (because I actually can afford GW minis now as a young lawyer) but because GW just sucked so much to buy from and support, and the rules went downhill fast.

Battlefleet Gothic was a sweet game though. GW killed off all its best games - BFG, Mordheim - do they still support Blood Bowl?

Pros:

• Simple Ruleset
• Really fun game
• Strategy involved
• Not too costly
• PRE-PAINTED
• Nice miniatures

Cons:

• Don't see anything negative atm

Unless you're only joining now and have to catch up

Im an ex 40k and fantasy player as well as GW's closest comparison to this battlefleet gothic (sigh...) and as its already been listed, its cheaper, its ready to go straight out the box, its relatively simple and for me the real defining point is that bar one or two configurations there's no 'ive put X model down, i've won the game'. You can put down what you want, but if you don't have a good grasp of what to do with it, it wont get you far.

That and its Star Wars

I got into gaming through 40K and Fantasy but gave that up a few years ago, not so much because of the cost (because I actually can afford GW minis now as a young lawyer) but because GW just sucked so much to buy from and support, and the rules went downhill fast.

Battlefleet Gothic was a sweet game though. GW killed off all its best games - BFG, Mordheim - do they still support Blood Bowl?

Nope they only do fantasy lotr and 40k now, and given wfb sales have gone through the floor they may not do that for much longer.

http://www.manticgames.com/mantic-shop/dreadball.html?

dread ball has had some good reviews maybe look into that.

I think one thing that helps X-Wing stand appart is that you can make it as complex or as simple as you want, which makes it much easier to show the game to new players. When I showed the game to a couple of friends, we played 2 vs 2 with:

First game: naked ships, roughly 60 points per team

Second game: naked ships, but 102 points per team and a Chewie in a falcon to show 1 pilot ability + turret

If they get hooked, the next game will include maybe a few more named pilots and maybe missiles/ torpedoes and so on.

(My dream is to get them hooked enough so that later, I can pop up my phantom, muhaha!)