Not to throw a wrench into this debate, but the Arc170 should be an Empire ship. The Republic turned into the Empire and the early Empire would have used them to fight remnants of the Separatist systems or Rebel groups. The other thing that I think would be good to add to any Prequel era ship to represent their age/lower tech level would be to allow no system upgrades and make it so the Prequel ships cannot role crits. There cannons were not as strong and I think this would represent that fact nicely.

hence the reason I don't think they are going to bundle this into X-Wing.

Neckbearding not allowed.

So, we've got less and less OT options as time goes on. Naturally, FFG will look towards other sources. "Rebels" is utterly guaranteed, and I can't wait.

However, before then, to fill the gap... We're going to see Prequel ships, most likely. The one with the most support on this forum, seems to be the ARC-170 starfighter.

The ARC-170 is a Heavy Fighter/Bomber. ARC is short for Aggressive ReConnaissance.

Not advertising for him, I just think it's very relevant.

http://www.shapeways.com/model/980192/caza-arco-cientosetenta-1-270.html?modelId=980192&materialId=6

what is neckbearding?

I'd be all for some Eta-2s. Best thing to come out of the prequels in my opinion. I've been working on stats for it so I'll join in the fun.

Attack seems reasonable at 2 due to size (limiting available power) and being armed with a pair of laser cannons.

Defense is an interesting one. Before Wave IV was announced I'd have said 3 but since FFG already dropped the 4 attack I'm more than willing to give this ship 4 green dice. It's a little faster than an A-wing and even smaller. The model would be ~2cm long, which is the width on an A-wing not counting guns. So I really don't think 4 defense is too much here.

Shields are simple. It has none. There was some variants that had shields and extra armor, but that sounds like a great modification card to me.

Hull is kinda a toughie. Again due to size (not only dimensions but volume) I wanna say 2. There are other ships out there with 2 hull but they have shields. The other thought I had is one shield with two hull. It would bring it up to the baseline already set, however it's not on the stock version. I'm really not sure which feels better here.

The Dial would be similar to an A-wing or Squint. Nothing too crazy here.

So that leaves us with upgrades and actions. We'll start with an astromech slot. No missiles or torps. A cannon slot may be possible as the ship did have a pair of Ion cannons. I don't really like the thought of putting a Heavy Laser Cannon on it though. Perhaps some sort of restriction but that's not something we've seen before. Maybe a 0 point upgrade that adds a cannon slot but prevents HLC? Elite talents for the named pilots. Anakin and a not so Old Ben at PS 9 and 8 respectively. I'd say a Clone Trooper for PS2 and a Padawan at 4 or 5.

Now onto the Action Bar! Focus like everyone under the sun. I don't see a need for Target Lock, no secondaries. Boost fits well with everything else, and arc dodging will be necessary thanks to its anemic health. Evade seems like a no brainer for such a tiny ship. Barrel Roll I'm on the fence about.

Lastly we come to points. Maybe start off in the mid teens something like 14 for the Clone, 17 for the nameless Jedi Redshirt and depending on abilities low to mid twenties for the heroes.

So there ya have it gents (and ladies who may be hiding amongst us). The Eta-2 for Star Wars: Clone Wars Miniatures.

I like it. I like it a lot. Make it the most agile freakin' thing in the game, but easily the most killable by a stray shot. It's really up to pilot skill, then.

I'm not sure why you're comparing it to the b-wing as a choice. The republic is proto-empire and would be on their side.

Not to throw a wrench into this debate, but the Arc170 should be an Empire ship. The Republic turned into the Empire and the early Empire would have used them to fight remnants of the Separatist systems or Rebel groups. The other thing that I think would be good to add to any Prequel era ship to represent their age/lower tech level would be to allow no system upgrades and make it so the Prequel ships cannot role crits. There cannons were not as strong and I think this would represent that fact nicely.

"During the Galactic Civil War, ARC-170s could be found in both Imperial and Rebel fleets, where they were considered elite craft."

Ya'll were sayin'?

And no, it can roll crits. Stop trying to dumb down tech. I mean by that logic, a crossbow shouldn't be able to maim someone because hey, we have rifles now.

Well, they can. They're still projectile weapons, they're still deadly. And it's only an 18 year difference. Come on, dudes.

what is neckbearding?

"PREQUELS? IN MUH BELUVED STUR WURZ? EGHBLUGHBLUGHBLUGHBLUGHBLUGHBLUGHBLUGH!" and many other things.

I really think this should be a compatible-but-separate game. If prequel ships are released for X-Wing, there will be unending wailing and gnashing of teeth from the prequel-hating crowd.

Let them come. FFG's wallets will not suffer a bit, because while loud, they're not a majority, for reasons stated elsewhere.

Kids like Star Wars too, and the game is just simple enough for younger folks to pick up and play with parents and such. They're a huge market. And not just small kids, either. It's been 15 years. Many of the children who grew up with the prequels- and even Clone Wars, as their Star Wars, are young adults by now. Even those who were about six or seven by the time of, "The Clone Wars" are in their early teens now.

And they're not stupid, bad kids. They're simply kids, kids that love Star Wars- but will never identify with the Original Trilogy quite like we do. I was born in 1992, but if not for my father being a MASSIVE Star Wars fan, the Prequels would be my Star Wars. Due to the age I was introduced to it all, they're all my Star Wars. I was lucky. I hit the sweet spot and genuinely enjoy watching every Star Wars film when I can.

Yes, even 2008's "Clone Wars". And its TV series. Because seriously, it's not awful.

But really. We have a whole new, young market. FFG has to appeal to them. But they're not kids you've got to dumb things down for, the ones I've met pick up on new concepts pretty fast.

So hey.

Introduce prequel stuff. Many of us fans want it. Folks aged 40-50 like my father, teens aged 13-18, and guys like me who just love almost everything Star Wars.

stuff

Oh yeah!! Well I was born in 1972, and I agree with everything you just said. So there. ;P

It doesn't matter that they were flown by rebels, they're a republic ship in the movies, which is the empire.

By that logic all ships are rebel ships because they stole and used everything. I bet I can find plenty if EU examples of some imp using primarily rebel ships like x-wings

This is why, if they do add CW era ships, it needs to be as 2 new factions.

I'm quite certain that those who want to explore the background more fully are capable of ignoring faction restrictions when appropriate.

stuff

Oh yeah!! Well I was born in 1972, and I agree with everything you just said. So there. ;P

It doesn't matter that they were flown by rebels, they're a republic ship in the movies, which is the empire.

By that logic all ships are rebel ships because they stole and used everything. I bet I can find plenty if EU examples of some imp using primarily rebel ships like x-wings

Uh, you're not far off actually.

The Z-95 was the first real Rebel starfighter, next to the Y-Wing. Both of which were used in The Republic Era. By the Republic. I guess The Empire should still be using them too.

The X-Wing was stolen at Fresia, by The Rebellion. They were actually intended for Imperial usage. But, they quickly became a Rebel symbol; especially after The Battle of Yavin, and The Empire canceled its contract with incom.

This resulted in Incom working with The Rebellion nigh exclusively. Incom would continue to support the Z-95, X-Wing, and later develop the A-Wing.

Hell, the CR-90s, Nebulon Bs, were also used by Imperials. The Rebels were, by law, dissidents and terrorists. Do you know how hard it is for groups like that to manufacture their own stuff? Even Mon Calamari cruisers here and there, were large unarmed cruisers.

So yeah. A lot of rebel stuff is stolen and later mass produced. You're not wrong. But you are wrong to think The Empire would still use the ARC-170. Because they didn't.

Take a look at how different the ARC-170 is, or any Republic fighter, to TIE Fighters. The Empire changed their doctrine, abandoning the Republic one. They used swarms, numbers, and larger capital ships, all for the element of fear. They didn't build them for peak efficiency and survivability. Sure, TIEs are wonderful starfighters for a military and quite good, but they are not at all hardy. The Empire wanted to spend its resources on nigh-disposable fighters and pilots alike, rather than waste time with repairing the same fighters again and again.

A TIE Fighter costs less than 70,000 credits. Fully armed and fueled. Some landspeeders cost more.

So... Yeah. The Empire wouldn't use ARC-170s. They're Incom/Subpro, just like the Z-95, and likewise, Incom owns the X-Wing. There's no support at all.

Any questions?

what is neckbearding?

I think that was his way of saying that people with strong but opposing opinions aren't allowed to post in his thread.

what is neckbearding?

I think that was his way of saying that people with strong but opposing opinions aren't allowed to post in his thread.

what is neckbearding?

From Urban Dic

neckbeard

Talkative, self-important nerdy men (usually age 30 and up) who, through an inability to properly decode social cues, mistake others' strained tolerance of their blather for evidence of their own charm.

I think I would give it built in APL instead of a true rear arc. The guns out the back were small and not very effective as far as I can tell. I would not give it system upgrade and astromech. I would give it astro. Otherwise the stats seem pretty good. 3 attack up front. 1 agility. 6 or 7 total hit points and a torp slot.

I kinda love the idea of a separate game with (say) mix 'n match for casual, but must be wholy separate for tournaments. No, I don't want to be the guy who has to balance 3* separate games into one system!

*Clone Wars, Civil War, and Epic. _can_ be done, but would be hard.

what is neckbearding?

I think that was his way of saying that people with strong but opposing opinions aren't allowed to post in his thread.

what is neckbearding?

I think that was his way of saying that people with strong but opposing opinions aren't allowed to post in his thread.

It was my way of saying, "If you don't like prequel stuff because it's prequel stuff and you're too much of a whiny ninny for it, don't bother." Because that's just silly. Go ahead and oppose. But not because it's prequel content. We're adults.

We're supposed to be better than that.

I kinda love the idea of a separate game with (say) mix 'n match for casual, but must be wholy separate for tournaments. No, I don't want to be the guy who has to balance 3* separate games into one system!

*Clone Wars, Civil War, and Epic. _can_ be done, but would be hard.

That'd be interesting. It'd allow more variety, if we set it in the past- however it would complicate matters further to an unnecessary extent. Best to keep it all in one game, and be smart about it.

Unless we're talking capital ship formations.

Then that needs to be on its own.

It was my way of saying, "If you don't like prequel stuff because it's prequel stuff and you're too much of a whiny ninny for it, don't bother." Because that's just silly. Go ahead and oppose. But not because it's prequel content. We're adults.

We're supposed to be better than that.

"Neckbearding not allowed" doesn't strike me as a particularly adult way of getting that point across.

It was my way of saying, "If you don't like prequel stuff because it's prequel stuff and you're too much of a whiny ninny for it, don't bother." Because that's just silly. Go ahead and oppose. But not because it's prequel content. We're adults.

We're supposed to be better than that.

"Neckbearding not allowed" doesn't strike me as a particularly adult way of getting that point across.

And neither does crying about getting some peas in your mashed potatoes, but several people act the same way about the prequels and it's absolutely silly.

So two wrongs make a right? If you want everyone to be better than that, perhaps it's best to set the example.

So two wrongs make a right?

You're the one who came in here and decided that no opposing opinions were allowed. If anyone is instigating anything, It's you.

And no, two wrongs don't make a right. But to act as though "No neckbearding allowed" is the first of any wronging on this forum, especially considering the context, is pretty silly.

But you're derailing the topic because you took issue with something I said, and I am guilty for responding. If we actually want to be as mature as we claim, then we should agree to stop this inane nonsense and discuss the merits of the ARC-170 and other prequel ships.

Shouldn't we?

Gotta say, although I have no massive objection to prequel era stuff in games, the arc-170 is among my least liked ships in the CW era.

If you want everyone to be better than that, perhaps it's best to set the example.

Edits, edits edits.

I did set an example. I laid out a comprehensive look at how an ARC-170 might or should function. All I didn't do was include a dial.

You're the one who came in here and decided that no opposing opinions were allowed. If anyone is instigating anything, It's you.

And no, two wrongs don't make a right. But to act as though "No neckbearding allowed" is the first of any wronging on this forum, especially considering the context, is pretty silly.

But you're derailing the topic because you took issue with something I said, and I am guilty for responding. If we actually want to be as mature as we claim, then we should agree to stop this inane nonsense and discuss the merits of the ARC-170 and other prequel ships.

Shouldn't we?

Is that what I'm doing? Because I'm pretty sure I'm just making observations about your posts, no antagonism intended. It's not my fault that you seem to be contradicting yourself.

I did set an example. I laid out a comprehensive look at how an ARC-170 might or should function. All I didn't do was include a dial.

Sure, but you also started off by saying "no neckbearding allowed." Your interpretation in post #39 was marginally better, and if your intent was to keep this thread civil and mature, something along those lines (sans the bit about being a "whiny ninny") probably would have been a better way of getting that point across. Was it really necessary to start by using a pejorative to label everyone who doen't like the prequels?

...Can we seriously just stop derailing this? We're doing exactly what the OP says not to do. Seriously.

You could really stand to be less... Coarse. Just cut it out, discuss the subject, or don't, and stop derailing. That's all I've asked since the beginning.

I don't like the prequels, and I don't appreciate the inference that everyone who doesn't like the prequels is... what was the expression you used? "PREQUELS? IN MUH BELUVED STUR WURZ? EGHBLUGHBLUGHBLUGHBLUGHBLUGHBLUGHBLUGH!" Not everyone who sees things differently than you is slavering all over themselves to prove it.

I ignored you when you started this thread off on the wrong foot. I ignored you when you put your foot even further into your own mouth. But if you want to talk about derailment, this was the point of departure. Remember, it takes two to tango.

Talk about whatever you like, but feel free to use this as a learning experience for future threads. There are ways to keep things mature, but this wasn't one of them.

Y'know, I did tell you to stop. But you didn't listen.

Are you stopping yet?