There are threads popping up constantly complaining about turrets and referring to them as easy mode/unfun/etc. What the heck, here is one more, focusing specifically on the idea that using turrets is "easy".

Turrets are NOT easy mode. If you are just floating along and firing away, you are NOT playing well and will get your head handed to you in short order. Turrets cost a lot of points, a 4- Y list will pay 20 points for their turrets. This means that you are down one shot per turn, one action per turn, and all the hull and shields an extra ship could have bought you. More, turrets are also less effective than primary weapons. Even if you had equal numbers (which you don't, because you paid for those turrets rather than buy another ship), if you and your turretless opponent fire at each other every round you will blow up first.

To win with turrets you need to be at least as aware of firing arcs as you would be flying a turretless list. You have greater freedom of movement (because you don't need to face your targets), but you also have much greater vulnerability. You MUST put your ships out of enemy arcs regularly to overcome the numerical and firepower disparity. Unlike "normal" lists, you cannot simply trade fire and hope to come out ahead. You will lose, badly and consistently, if you simply trade shots.

A simple example is a swarm. A poor player can often pull out a win by doing nothing more than pointing his ships at the badguys and rolling dice until they blow up. Even if you ignore the opportunity to arc-dodge and take every shot your opponent lines up right to the face, as long as you point at the badguys you have a reasonable chance of pulling out a victory. A player who runs a turret based list will evaporate in short order if he simply trades fire, no matter who he faces. He must be aware of his opponents ships, and be capable of moving in ways that deny his opponent shots. A poor player who simply puts dials down and hopes to out-dice his opponent is going to lose, badly. There is a reason Falcons are consistently put down by swarms.

Turrets allow bad players to roll dice, and lose badly. They are MORE difficult to use than standard ships, because you start the game at a large numerical and firepower disadvantage. Just because you can drop some dice every turn doesn't mean you are going to do well. Bad players with Falcons lose more consistently than bad players with balanced lists, because they are much harder to use PROPERLY especially due to the fact that rolling dice every turn creates the illusion that you are competitive.

+1 what KineticOperator said.

I shake my head at posts that continually state that turrets are overpowered.

If that would have been the case, I would have been setting the galaxy on fire with my straight Y lists that I've experimented from the start in this game.

As it turns out, I didn't start really winning any games until I started playing more conventional lists. Turrets are a nice tool, but easymode? Please, get out there and play some games before you start blathering nonsense on the forums.

What I find to be true about turrets (and swarm to some extent) is that it can make a poor player the equal of a casual player and a casual player the equal of a good player but at higher levels the great and exceptional players will still blow you away if you are only "good" or less.

It also swings the other way a bit. A great or exceptional player with a turret list will make it look really "easy" to win with. That player can probably make most things look easy but since we already have preconceived notions of turrets being "easy" we say "easy" instead of "masterful", "technical", or "amazing piloting" like we would if someone was flying say an interceptor or awing list.

This subject is so subjective. Turrets are more expensive and so they should be, played well someone with turrets will run there opponent around the board, through asteroids and just doing a little damage turn after turn at a bare minimum to get the win. If played poorly and numbers are against you then yes it's going to be over fast, and you will have lost.

Some match ups are an easy auto win match up. Yes they are,I have given and taken enough wins and losses to know an intercepter list for example against a Han shoots first list is up against it from the start. I have played both list types many times and unless the falcon player parks right in front of your entire small list, only hot dice will save you.

That said a falcon flown well will keep a swarm flying through asteroids while taking pot shots with little or no return fire, or go down faster than a hot roast on Sunday if flown poorly.

Turrets add another dynamic to the game. I for one like seeing more options. That said, I tend to agree that turrets are easier to use...and harder to win with. But I would consider turrets to be more advantageous in the general case than many consumable munitions. Munitions cost extra, like the turret, but usually have extra requirements (TL, firing arc) and are points that are vapors after use.

I beat someone with a list that had a Y-wing toting an ion cannon turret. The turret really screwed with his plans and his formation flying. Afterwards they complained that turrets's are cheap and ruin the game. I could have suggested that maybe it was his attitude and negativity that ruined the game, not to mention his failure to adapt to the turret, but I held my tongue and just shook his hand, smiled and said "good game."

The next person I played, saw my Y-wing, and flew so that he was range three on the opening salvo, making the turret completely useless. After that round of firing my Y-wing had only a couple of hull points left, and he made short work of it the next round before it could fire.

One player whined and complained, the other adapted and flew smart. I fly mostly Imperial too, so I am not a stranger to the frustration of losing Interceptors to Falcons. Turret's don't break the game, the only thing I dislike about turret's are the people that complain about them (in my opinion).

Typically, every ship in X-wing has two main concerns when maneuvering: line up a shot at the enemy, and don't let them line up a shot on you. A range 1-3 turret only really has to worry about the latter, a 1-2 turret has to care a little bit more but it's still not that hard to maneuver. That is not to say that there aren't bad matchups for turret lists (TIE swarm, etc), or that the ease of use does not become less of a factor at higher levels of play where the other players know exactly how to play against the turret ships.

However, not all X-wing players are playing at the highest levels. At low to intermediate levels the Falcon most certainly is very easy to play, especially if your opponent is not running a super competitive build (which is VERY easy to do in a game with a ton of tempting upgrade options and unique pilots that aren't always worth the points). Essentially, turrets (specifically the Falcon) fall into a category that has existed in many games and probably will forever: things that take more knowledge/effort/skill/planning/etc to play against than they do to play themselves. Simply by putting one in your squad, you gain an immediate advantage over your opponent if they are not prepared to deal with it.

Do people whine about it too much? Probably, this is the internet after all. But it is easy to see why a lot of people would dislike the turret mechanic, not everyone is a super competitive player with many hours of study, experience, and tactical squad building.

"Simply by putting one in your squad, you gain an immediate advantage over your opponent if they are not prepared to deal with it."

Sort of redundant to say this. It can be said about ANY ship, pilot, ability, gear in the game. ANY aspect of squad building at all reflects this statement.

....turrets are no different. If you think turrets are a problem, which simply isn't true...you probably havent played enough X-Wing.

If there's anything I've learned in my years of gaming it's this:

If one wins, the game is balanced. If one loses, the game is broken.

If you think turrets are a problem, which simply isn't true...you probably havent played enough X-Wing.

I don't think they are a problem, but you are summarizing my point. Not all players have played enough X-wing to be anywhere near good at it, and a lot of those players probably just play casually on their dining room table running poorly optimized theme builds with their friends. This is where the ability for the Falcon to just putz randomly about the map and blast small inefficient builds apart with ease is going to rub people the wrong way. Even on FFG official forums not everyone is a tournament player, and even if they are their area may not be that skilled or competitive.

I'm not arguing for "Turrets = too easy and good" I'm just saying that to a large part of the game demographic that is exactly how they come across, and that's most likely who you are hearing the complaints from.

If Turrets are "easy" "unfair" "under costed" "braking the game" or whatever then how come we dont see 4 Y Wings with Ion more at Comps.

I think most people who complain about them fly 4 B wing lists.

I must say it is easy to beat 4 Bs with 4 Ys with Ion

If there's anything I've learned in my years of gaming it's this:

If one wins, the game is balanced. If one loses, the game is broken.

I know you're being sarcastic, however...

I lost all 6 of my Imdaar Alpha games. My closest game was against a dual Falcon fortress build, which I lost mainly due to some silly flying on my part (Focus! Fire! Don't bump it! You KNOW this!). The fortress build was on the bottom tables next to me at the end.

The game is balanced.

The falcon is kinda a noob tube and can be tough for new imp players to counter, but it's not imbalanced and dies pretty fast if you focus fire on it which is worth doing because once it's gone you can out manoeuvre the rebel ships with your ties.

Besides soon with the decimator we'll be getting the turrets are OP threads directed at us.

I think at the Highest level they aren't OP but at the lowest level (people who are rubbish against people who are rubbish) they are.

Your example

4 Y wings vs 5 other ships On a joust you are taking more fire agreed but assuming you don't lose a ship (you have 8 hp remember) when the joust is done your opponent has 0 shots you have 4 in two turns you have had 8 shots (4 may be weaker) they have had 5.

I think a "training wheel" is a reasonable description, doesn't make the high end win but the low end does help a lot.

Having said that I would not get rid of them for love nor money!

Turrets are most certainly not OP.

Turrets in specific on a large ship immune to crits ór always shooting first with an inbuilt reroll of red dice reaching out to all range bands?

At the very least training wheels. IMO it dumbs down the game.

Once again; not OP. but it certainly is bloody easy and it downright neutralises (obsoletes) certain ships.

My last tournament I brought Biggs, Tarn and 2 Daggers with FCS.

Faced a tie swarm (as you do) and 2 rebel players before the final.

Both rebs with Chewie and C3P0 and gunner. *yawn*

I won both times btw. But mind if I think it is stupidly easy to do well with said ship?

Do well I said. Not good.

As in "good enough" to win tournaments vs competent players. (most of the time anyhow)

tl;dr. turrets are fine but I would have loved to see no turret have 3 dice at rb3.

(yes; that would also mean the YT would be a lot cheaper. Which allows for more diverse builds win-win IMO)

I fly a three turret list. Han, Roark and a Y-Wing and it is most certainly not auto win. Against players of "lesser skill" I win, but I can do that with any list. Against players of equal skill it's always a close game and usually comes down to dice luck. Against folks like Paul Heaver with his favorite squad I lose a bit more.

Winning in tournies in this game comes down to how good you are at the game (practice and natural ability) and how fMiliar you are with your squad and what it's strengths and weaknesses are.

I often fly a 3 shuttle imperial list and most people think it is a weak list until it smashes them.

In summation, turrets are not easy mode and do not give you an auto advantage. They give in certain areas of game play and take away in others.

Turrets are most certainly not OP.

Turrets in specific on a large ship immune to crits ór always shooting first with an inbuilt reroll of red dice reaching out to all range bands?

At the very least training wheels. IMO it dumbs down the game.

Once again; not OP. but it certainly is bloody easy and it downright neutralises (obsoletes) certain ships.

Agreed, turrets are not OP. But as KineticOperator suggested, neither are they easy to use well. Are they better against some ships than others? Absolutely. As we hear often on these forums, X-wing is like rock, paper, scissors. Some mechanics trump others, but have their own foils in turn. A blaster turret may do well against an interceptor, but is itself useless against Jax or Dark Curse, etc. etc. etc. As a new player, turrets may seem easier to win with. But after more experience, turrets are just one more interesting mechanic in a very well-balanced game.

I'm a very new player to this game, having played around a dozen games in the last 2 weeks. It's funny because my buddy and I got into this at a time when most of you were veterans, and have had every ship available to us, so to speak, all at the same time.

Because we are both working professionals, we basically went out and bought 2+ of every ship out there.

The last 2 weeks for me have been like cramming for finals, trying to understand every ship, every pilot, every upgrade, and of course the rules themselves, and how to get them to work.

I quickly learned that having a turreted ship was fun, but by no means an insta-win. I also did learn, as some anti-turreters have pointed out, that relying too much on turrets would make me a poor pilot. I have since tried to limit my turreted ships to a max of 1 per game, not because I feel they are "OP", but because I don't want to overly rely on them and not learning to fly in order to win and get good at the game.

Right now I'm flying almost always 1 (and only 1) turreted ship, but that's less because TURRET and more because I like the idea of support ships, for which the turret just seems like a natural fit (Dutch, Jan, Kyle, Roark).

I typically have at least one Ion Turret in whatever list I run. I don't do it for "easy mode" like some do. My tactics and strategy revolve around being able to take a stressed ship out of action and possibly off the map.

Case in Point: Soontir Fel. Last night, I played a game of my Ace List against an Imperial Ace list.

HIS LIST

MY LIST

Airen Cracken/Z-95 Headhunter + Assault Missiles + Wingman + Munitions Failsafe
Horton Salm/Y-Wing + R5-D8 + Proton Torpedoes + Ion Cannon Turret
Luke Skywalker/X-Wing + R2-D2 + Flechette Torpedo + Determination

My only saving grace in this list was Horton Salm. Thankfully, my friend had his ships go after Luke first. Echo was taken down with an Assault Missile, which also caught Fel, knocking out his stealth Device. Horton scored an Ion hit on Fel, who was stressed. The next turn, another Ion hit destroyed him.

Luke launched a Flechette Torpedo at Turr, who had taken out Airen. It missed, but the text doesn't say the attack has to hit. Horton got him with an Ion Blast and Luke destroyed him in the next Turn with a Range 1 TL+Focus shot.

My Y-wing isn't the most important ship in my fleet. When I get a HWK-290, I'll trade it in the Kyle. However, the utility of the Ion Cannon for removing the Move and Action of any stressed pilot is great enough for even veteran players.

I played an all-turrets list yesterday (Chewie, gold squad, HWK) and wrecked a 6 ship list. So it's not all about numbers.

My only saving grace in this list was Horton Salm. Thankfully, my friend had his ships go after Luke first. Echo was taken down with an Assault Missile, which also caught Fel, knocking out his stealth Device. Horton scored an Ion hit on Fel, who was stressed. The next turn, another Ion hit destroyed him.

Assault Missile splash damage does not remove Stealth Devices, neither does damage from overlapping an asteroid or bombs. Only an attack directed at the SD equipped ship can do that.

Echo was taken down with an Assault Missile, which also caught Fel, knocking out his stealth Device.

Stealth device isn't destroyed if the ship is hit by "collateral damage". Stealth device is only destroyed if that ship is hit by an attack. See the FAQ.

I typically have at least one Ion Turret in whatever list I run. I don't do it for "easy mode" like some do. My tactics and strategy revolve around being able to take a stressed ship out of action and possibly off the map.

Case in Point: Soontir Fel. Last night, I played a game of my Ace List against an Imperial Ace list.

HIS LIST

Soontir Fel/TIE Interceptor + Push the Limit +Stealth Device

Turr Phennir/TIE Interceptor +Predator +Targeting Computer

"Echo"/TIE Phantom +Recon Specialist +Advanced Cloaking Device

MY LIST

Airen Cracken/Z-95 Headhunter + Assault Missiles + Wingman + Munitions Failsafe

Horton Salm/Y-Wing + R5-D8 + Proton Torpedoes + Ion Cannon Turret

Luke Skywalker/X-Wing + R2-D2 + Flechette Torpedo + Determination

My only saving grace in this list was Horton Salm. Thankfully, my friend had his ships go after Luke first. Echo was taken down with an Assault Missile, which also caught Fel, knocking out his stealth Device. Horton scored an Ion hit on Fel, who was stressed. The next turn, another Ion hit destroyed him.

Luke launched a Flechette Torpedo at Turr, who had taken out Airen. It missed, but the text doesn't say the attack has to hit. Horton got him with an Ion Blast and Luke destroyed him in the next Turn with a Range 1 TL+Focus shot.

My Y-wing isn't the most important ship in my fleet. When I get a HWK-290, I'll trade it in the Kyle. However, the utility of the Ion Cannon for removing the Move and Action of any stressed pilot is great enough for even veteran players.

Why was echo even close to the other ships?

You don't fly phantoms in formation ever it's a flanking ship it should never be in a position to get caught by an assault missile, it sounds like your friend does not really understand how to use a phantom.

There's 2 different types of turret in the game.

Firstly there's your turret upgrades: blaster and ion turrets. These add to the tactical challenge of the game. The range means that a better player facing them can keep out of range and handle them, changing the tactical mind games from one of trying to outflank to one of trying to stay at range 3. As the turret ship player, you've got the challenge of trying to stay at range 2 or out of their arc so that you don't leave yourself open to being shot back. Neither ship that can use this upgrade is particularly manoeuvrable so this creates an interesting and different challenge that IMO adds to the "interestingness" of the game. The fact that ion creates further unusual situations and blaster needs clever focus management only adds to the tactical challenge, for both players.

on the other hand you've got the big ship turret primary weapons, which seem a real no-brainer. I can't manoeuvre myself into a position where I can shoot you but you can't shoot me - it's just not mechanically possible. As a warhammer player I consider the yt1300 the dwarfs of xwing. Not that it's static like a dwarf army, but it's just predictable and doesn't present the opponent with much of a tactical challenge in gameplay - you've either got the list that can deal with it or not.

Cheerio,

Ben