Now look at their rules, not their obscure EU character names. Lorrir might not have been very impressive in a random EU story, but a TIE interceptor that can barrel roll with a curved template fits the "ace" archetype very well.

Are you saying it's impossible to have an ace Y-wing? A lot of rebel pilots would disagree!

The ace packs are FFG's equivalent of the big boxes in Netrunner where they add a whole load of new options and stuff to one corp and one runner. We've had the TIE Interceptor Acepack, the X-wing Acepack was in the transport, and Rebel Aces is ace treatment for the A-wing and B-wing. I've little doubt they'll continue to make these. We call these packs "aces" not because they're aces necessarily but because the first pack to do it was Imperial Aces and Rebel Aces follows in the same vein.

You're correct in that thematically Rebel Aces is about the elite pilots flying the rebel prototypes, and the Y-wing isn't a rebel prototype, but you're fixating on it to the point where you're disregarding other information. Let's say the Y-wing isn't a good fit for a pack about rebel ace prototype pilots, and that if they swapped the Y-wing for the B-wing now the pack's theme may be somewhat damaged. But that's assuming they'd design the pack with the B-wing and then swap in the Y-wing. They do thematic design and branding after game design. If they made an A-wing and Y-wing pack and decided the Rebel Aces name didn't fit (I personally think it would fit fine) they wouldn't think "We can't use the Y-wing, it doesn't fit", they'd think "We can't use the name Rebel Aces, it doesn't fit." They name the pack after designing it.

This means the whole ace thing is wholly immaterial. What we're saying is that we wish they'd have designed it as an A-wing and Y-wing pack from the start, that the Y-wing is in more need of some fresh life than the B-wing. Why did they go with the B-wing? Any number of reasons: they had good ideas for B-wings then and not as many for Y-wings, they wanted to introduce their B-wing mods to the current meta and are holding back the Y-wing mods for the Wave 5 or 6 meta or the Imperial Huges, the Y-wing mods use new mechanics they intend to bring in in later waves, they considered the astromechs and torps from Rebel Transport to be a sort of "mini-Y aces" and thus decided to handle the Y-wing, they planned Rebel Aces before XXBB became dominant and didn't know the B-wing was going to be so good, they figured the Y-wing would go better with a TIE advanced in a Yavin themed back, any number of perfectly good reasons for it. But I don't think for a second if they wanted to do the Y-wing that the Rebel Ace title would have held them back.

Technically the x-wings have had TWO aces packs already. The original x-wing expansion, and the transport x-wing.

I don't understand when people want an aces for the tie fighter, when it technically did already. It already has 9 different pilots, 6 of which are unique, and most if not all of the unique ones have very good abilities.

TIE's have access to so many upgrades from so many expansions, and they have a generic EPT pilot as well so I'm pretty sure they are doing just fine.

Y-Wings and Bombers need some attention IMO. So does the HWK. I'd actually like a new type of turret that brings something besides firepower or ions. Maybe it deals no damage but drains shields? I dunno, just thoughts.

TIE's have access to so many upgrades from so many expansions, and they have a generic EPT pilot as well so I'm pretty sure they are doing just fine.

Y-Wings and Bombers need some attention IMO. So does the HWK. I'd actually like a new type of turret that brings something besides firepower or ions. Maybe it deals no damage but drains shields? I dunno, just thoughts.

Maybe they can get a mod that lets you attach cannons to your turrets, like the outrider title does for 5 points.

Or one that makes a turret a cannon but significantly more powerful.

Honestly, they just need to give them a turret that can deal damage and doesn't suck. Blaster Turret is a miserable weapon. A stress cannon would be pretty epic. Weapon 2. If it scores at least one hit also stress the opponent. Range 2-3.

But whatever it is, 5 points or so should be the upper limit. The Hawk and Y-Wing don't have the bulk to back up 12 points of upgrades like the Outrider does.

If we're discussing archetypes here, what's loud, green, and usually found at the epicentre of every heated discussion on this board?

Oh look, a Republic era ships thread... /leaves

A falling tree?

Now look at their rules, not their obscure EU character names. Lorrir might not have been very impressive in a random EU story, but a TIE interceptor that can barrel roll with a curved template fits the "ace" archetype very well.

You're only contradicting yourself at this point. So, a Y-Wing can't get the aces treatment because it's not an archetypal dogfighter (whatever that means), yet FFG can bob their head, wrinkle their nose, and *POOF*, a person who has no business even being in the cockpit of a starfighter is suddenly an expert pilot. You've just admitted that they're an ace only because FFG says so, not because they correspond to some abstract definition of aceness that you've invented out of thin air. There's absolutely no reason why they couldn't do the same with a Y-Wing, and to say otherwise is pure sophistry.

And if you take away the theme you have a game that nobody would play.

Sacrifices have already been made along those lines, and the sky isn't falling yet. The notion that a Y-Wing Aces pack would somehow drive people away from the game is completely laughable.

I think him calling you names heralded his exit of the thread here.

So I read through 6 pages of this (What am I doing with my life?), and iPeregrine is still arguing essentially that every box which expands upon a ship must be called, very specifically, an "Aces" box? And this is the core of his argument?

Why is anyone listening?

I think Nien Nunb on a B-Wing would be good.

Gentlebeings, gentlebeings please! If we're going to have a discussion about the name of the box, according to the X-Wing novels an "ace" is a pilot who has shot down at least 5 enemy craft. Nothing to do with the ship. By that definition, Horton Salm is an ace, as are a number of other Y-Wing pilots.

Back on topic, I've said this before, and I'll keep saying it in threads like this until I try it, and inevitably get completely demolished in the process. The main B-Wing setup I'm looking forward to in Reebel Aces is a B-Wing with Recon Specialist, Deadeye, and full of APT's. It'll be expensive, it'll get focussed down immediately, but it'll be scaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaary

I think Nien Nunb on a B-Wing would be good.

Maybe. You do only gain 2 greens out of it: the 3-straight and 4-straight. The latter used to be red, of course, and having free access to it would finally let the B-wings keep up with X-wings and Z-95s on the initial approach, but is that really worth 2 points? I'm not convinced.

I think Nien Nunb on a B-Wing would be good.

Maybe. You do only gain 2 greens out of it: the 3-straight and 4-straight. The latter used to be red, of course, and having free access to it would finally let the B-wings keep up with X-wings and Z-95s on the initial approach, but is that really worth 2 points? I'm not convinced.

Sure, you only gain 2 greens, but the 3 and unstressed 4 could be great for chasing down Phantoms.

Maybe we've been looking at this the wrong way. B-Wing Aces? Sure, why not. But did A-Wings really need any attention? We already know how powerful they are, especially when you run them against Y-Wings. The fact that all you have to do to win as an A-Wing player is kill a single Y-Wing and kite the rest around the edge of the board until time is called clearly means that A-Wings are the superior craft. In that context, then, shouldn't the Y-Wing get some love? Without more pilots and upgrades there's no way for this poor dog of a dogfighter to ever catch up with the nimbler craft.

Be a good sport, FFG. Let slip the dogs of Star Wars, and give Y-Wings their time in the spotlight.

I think Nien Nunb on a B-Wing would be good.

Maybe. You do only gain 2 greens out of it: the 3-straight and 4-straight. The latter used to be red, of course, and having free access to it would finally let the B-wings keep up with X-wings and Z-95s on the initial approach, but is that really worth 2 points? I'm not convinced.

I've put him in a HWK before, which if used with Jan allows for a much higher degree of freedom of movement after assisting an ally.

Edit: So I'd wager, it's not too bad on a Y-Wing, either.

I think Nien Nunb on a B-Wing would be good.

Maybe. You do only gain 2 greens out of it: the 3-straight and 4-straight. The latter used to be red, of course, and having free access to it would finally let the B-wings keep up with X-wings and Z-95s on the initial approach, but is that really worth 2 points? I'm not convinced.

I've put him in a HWK before, which if used with Jan allows for a much higher degree of freedom of movement after assisting an ally.

Edit: So I'd wager, it's not too bad on a Y-Wing, either.

Maybe, but R2 is probably already good enough.

Ten+HLC+Merc Copilot is expensive but nasty, I kind of want to run Etahn as backup and it can still fit another Merc B-wing or maybe a pair of Zs for interference.

I think Nien Nunb on a B-Wing would be good.

Maybe. You do only gain 2 greens out of it: the 3-straight and 4-straight. The latter used to be red, of course, and having free access to it would finally let the B-wings keep up with X-wings and Z-95s on the initial approach, but is that really worth 2 points? I'm not convinced.

I've put him in a HWK before, which if used with Jan allows for a much higher degree of freedom of movement after assisting an ally.

Edit: So I'd wager, it's not too bad on a Y-Wing, either.

Maybe, but R2 is probably already good enough.

True, green straights are generally less valued than green banks or turns.

Better yet, R2 + Nien? lol

So I read through 6 pages of this (What am I doing with my life?), and iPeregrine is still arguing essentially that every box which expands upon a ship must be called, very specifically, an "Aces" box? And this is the core of his argument?

Perhaps you should try understanding instead of just reading the words? Obviously there is no requirement that every expansion have an "aces" label, as FFG very clearly demonstrated when they put a bunch of new x-wing pilots and upgrades in the transport box. But if you're going to make a rebel "aces" expansion, as FFG was pretty much committed to doing once they did the imperial one, that implies some things about the ships and pilots will be chosen for that expansion.

Maybe we've been looking at this the wrong way. B-Wing Aces? Sure, why not. But did A-Wings really need any attention? We already know how powerful they are, especially when you run them against Y-Wings. The fact that all you have to do to win as an A-Wing player is kill a single Y-Wing and kite the rest around the edge of the board until time is called clearly means that A-Wings are the superior craft. In that context, then, shouldn't the Y-Wing get some love? Without more pilots and upgrades there's no way for this poor dog of a dogfighter to ever catch up with the nimbler craft.

So I guess now that you've finally run out of even vaguely constructive things to say about this thread you're going to move on to masturbating about things from old threads? I may have been judging you unfairly, you're not just a narcissistic troll, you're a narcissistic troll with a post count obsession!

The Y-Wing needs an add bomb upgrade mod.

You're only contradicting yourself at this point. So, a Y-Wing can't get the aces treatment because it's not an archetypal dogfighter (whatever that means), yet FFG can bob their head, wrinkle their nose, and *POOF*, a person who has no business even being in the cockpit of a starfighter is suddenly an expert pilot.

Sigh. Good job continuing to be a semi-literate troll, I clearly said that I'm talking about the RULES for the ships, not which random EU pilot nobody cares about they put on the card title. The interceptor pilots have RULES that fit the "ace" archetype. The a-wing pilots have rules that fit the "ace" archetype. A y-wing expansion would have a hard time fitting that archetype because the y-wing is just an inferior (but cheaper) b-wing in the "brawler" role. The only thing the y-wing does better than other ships, to fit the "best of the best" archetype, is the 360* turret that lets you minimize the importance of maneuvering.

Sacrifices have already been made along those lines, and the sky isn't falling yet. The notion that a Y-Wing Aces pack would somehow drive people away from the game is completely laughable.

You're right, it is laughable, just like your attempt to use that as a straw man. I never said that it would drive people away. Maybe it's hard for you to understand anything more complicated than "I WIN THE INTERNET", but it's possible for a product choice to be less than ideal even if it doesn't produce a lot of lost customers.

A Y-wing ace is a pilot that excels at flying a Y-wing. If you're talking maneuverability, that's A: irrelevant and B: the non-advsensor B-wing's slower and even less maneuverable, constantly stressing itself. If you are talking advsensor B-wing then we get to talk R2 Astro Y-wing.

And even if Y-wings didn't fit this "ace archetype"...

The ace packs are FFG's equivalent of the big boxes in Netrunner where they add a whole load of new options and stuff to one corp and one runner. We've had the TIE Interceptor Acepack, the X-wing Acepack was in the transport, and Rebel Aces is ace treatment for the A-wing and B-wing. I've little doubt they'll continue to make these. We call these packs "aces" not because they're aces necessarily but because the first pack to do it was Imperial Aces and Rebel Aces follows in the same vein.

You're correct in that thematically Rebel Aces is about the elite pilots flying the rebel prototypes, and the Y-wing isn't a rebel prototype, but you're fixating on it to the point where you're disregarding other information. Let's say the Y-wing isn't a good fit for a pack about rebel ace prototype pilots, and that if they swapped the Y-wing for the B-wing now the pack's theme may be somewhat damaged. But that's assuming they'd design the pack with the B-wing and then swap in the Y-wing. They do thematic design and branding after game design. If they made an A-wing and Y-wing pack and decided the Rebel Aces name didn't fit (I personally think it would fit fine) they wouldn't think "We can't use the Y-wing, it doesn't fit", they'd think "We can't use the name Rebel Aces, it doesn't fit." They name the pack after designing it.

This means the whole ace thing is wholly immaterial. What we're saying is that we wish they'd have designed it as an A-wing and Y-wing pack from the start, that the Y-wing is in more need of some fresh life than the B-wing. Why did they go with the B-wing? Any number of reasons: they had good ideas for B-wings then and not as many for Y-wings, they wanted to introduce their B-wing mods to the current meta and are holding back the Y-wing mods for the Wave 5 or 6 meta or the Imperial Huges, the Y-wing mods use new mechanics they intend to bring in in later waves, they considered the astromechs and torps from Rebel Transport to be a sort of "mini-Y aces" and thus decided to handle the Y-wing later, they planned Rebel Aces before XXBB became dominant and didn't know the B-wing was going to be so good, they figured the Y-wing would go better with a TIE advanced in a Yavin themed back, any number of perfectly good reasons for it. But I don't think for a second if they wanted to do the Y-wing that the Rebel Ace title would have held them back.

So I guess now that you've finally run out of even vaguely constructive things to say about this thread you're going to move on to masturbating about things from old threads? I may have been judging you unfairly, you're not just a narcissistic troll, you're a narcissistic troll with a post count obsession!

What else is there to contribute at this point? Everything you've said has been utter and obvious sophistry, and you continue to huff and puff at each and every person who disagrees with you as if you're the only person in this whole world who understands the game. We're not illiterate, iPeregrine, you're just nowhere near as smart as you think you are. I don't just mean that about the game, but your trolling antics as well. We all see you for exactly what you are, and only comment in any serious fashion to watch you make an even bigger fool of yourself. Tell me, how does it feel to sit there and seethe in your anger, knowing all the while that you're the laughing stock of this forum?

I'd like to further stir up the Internet here by point out that Keyan Farlander is an Ace Y-Wing pilot in the canon, and was one of the survivors of the First Death Star assault.