The fact that you think this is important enough to brag about says some pretty sad things about you.

Brag about what, the fact that I have a brain, or that you consistently make a fool of yourself? It's not so much bragging as just having a good laugh at your expense. Perhaps you'd laugh along with me if you read your own posts every now and again.

So I guess you're just going to abandon your skepticism that Farlander is some unknown that doesn't deserve the "ace" title?

I'm pretty sure I said neither of those things, only that being notable doesn't automatically make one an ace. Wasn't Maarek Stele also in one of those video games? So much for the aces treatment...

You admitted yourself that the A-Wings are largely unknown, so how do they make a better candidate for inclusion in an aces product than a Y-Wing? Because of another trivial distinction over what constitutes a dogfighter? Yeah, okay.

wrong, wrong, wrong again iPeregrine.

Adept Rebel Convoy players utilise the main guns of the Y

ALL

THE

TIME.

....in fact, it's preferred

Again, you don't get it. The Y in that list is a straight brawling DOGFIGHTER. The turret grants an advantage yes, but you strive for range 1 main gun shots when possible. The turret grants a major advantage in such close fighting, but make no mistake, you're jockeying for position in forward arcs when flying the Y in that list.

Stop, man...just stop.

Again, you don't get it. The Y in that list is a straight brawling DOGFIGHTER. The turret grants an advantage yes, but you strive for range 1 main gun shots when possible. The turret grants a major advantage in such close fighting, but make no mistake, you're jockeying for position in forward arcs when flying the Y in that list.

So let me get this straight: you're using the y-wing to do something that the b-wing does better in every possible way, and you call the y-wing a good dogfighter? That's not good dogfighting, it's just being a ship that costs 16 points instead of 22.

Whether you admit it or not an "aces" expansion is about elite pilots in the best ships. And if you're going to include a "brawler" ship that ship is the b-wing, the best ship in that role.

It's better in that list because of the way the list is played.

at that point level (23pts) the Y IS a better dogfighter because it's less reliant on arcs of fire and getting off actions than the B is. If you want to go up to 25pts for an advanced sensor on your B...be my guest, but the Y is still quite a bit capable at close ranges due to it's ability to fire out of arc.

Just because a fighter has a turret doesn't mean it doesn't dogfight. There are plenty of examples in history of dogfighting planes that have turrets....and they still were capable of dogfighting.

I'd even hazard a guess that some of THOSE planes were piloted by Aces....which is basically at the crux of the issue here. The Y has just as much of a place in an 'Aces' box as the B does. More so because of the lack of players that fly it.

I'm pretty sure I said neither of those things, only that being notable doesn't automatically make one an ace. Wasn't Maarek Stele also in one of those video games? So much for the aces treatment...

No, being notable doesn't necessarily make a character an ace, but Farlander is indisputably an appropriate "ace" character.

And Maarek Stele was only left out of imperial aces because he already existed in X-Wing and FFG refuses to re-use pilots. If he hadn't been used already then he would have been an incredibly obvious choice, and people would have been really disappointed if he hadn't been included.

You admitted yourself that the A-Wings are largely unknown, so how do they make a better candidate for inclusion in an aces product than a Y-Wing? Because of another trivial distinction over what constitutes a dogfighter? Yeah, okay.

Because they fit the archetype of an ace pilot. You seem to be the only person who doesn't understand that the a-wing was absolutely inevitable for rebel aces, and the two a-wing pilots (along with the other upgrades) we're getting match the theme very well. The y-wing doesn't fit that theme because it's a support ship that is completely outclassed by the b-wing in the dogfighting role. Ace ships/pilots are supposed to be the best of the best, not the mediocre but cheap.

Archetype, another semantic distinction. Your ability to pull facts out of thin air is downright fascinating. I'm curious, what do you do for a living?

Ace ships/pilots are supposed to be the best of the best, not the mediocre but cheap.

And you can do the exact same thing with Y-Wings. We're not talking about ships that can be classified as aces, only pilots. If you'd like I can flip through my Osprey books and find you plenty of examples of aces for real life vehicles that would be, in your opinion, less than optimal.

at that point level (23pts) the Y IS a better dogfighter because it's less reliant on arcs of fire and getting off actions than the B is. If you want to go up to 25pts for an advanced sensor on your B...be my guest, but the Y is still quite a bit capable at close ranges due to it's ability to fire out of arc.

Yes, and now you're talking about point efficiency, not raw power. Aces are supposed to be the best pilots flying the best ships, even if they aren't quite as point-efficient as lesser pilots.

The Y has just as much of a place in an 'Aces' box as the B does. More so because of the lack of players that fly it.

Except it really doesn't. The b-wing completely outclasses it in the "brawler" role, which makes it the clear winner for an "aces" expansion. The only argument for including the y-wing instead is based on balance reasons, not theme.

Archetype, another semantic distinction. Your inability to continually make things up is downright fascinating. I'm curious, what do you do for a living?

And your inability to comprehend even the most basic concepts continues to amaze me. I'm curious, are you honestly this stupid or are you just so obssessed with winning the internet that you don't mind looking like a clueless moron as long as you "win"?

Y-Wings cost 18.

Y-Wings are useful ships.

You can use a Turret in a Dogfight. That makes Y-Wings excellent Dogfighters. They are way better than B-Wings in a one on one situation.

Sometimes an 18 point ship with 2 attack works better than a 22 point ship with 3 attack for your list. That's justifiable. Y-Wings have upgrade slots on par with B-Wing(Astromechs and Sensor slots are equally useful. The Y-Wing dial is solid. The Y-Wing is rarely used because it's cost slot is better filled with an A-Wing much of the time, but not always.

B-Wings chuck out damage but the named pilots range from mediocre to awful. Ten is 2 Points too expensive for a mediocre ability. Seriously, how is he two points more than Wedge while having lower PS and a worse ability when B-Wings cost 1 Point more than X-Wings.

Ibby, while OK, is overshadowed by Advanced Sensors usefulness, something she does not synergize well with.

In the end, I'm super glad Rebel Aces looks Awesome.

And an Ace is somebdy that killed 5 pilots. Nothing more, nothing less. Every ship type has aces.

And your inability to comprehend even the most basic concepts continues to amaze me. I'm curious, are you honestly this stupid or are you just so obssessed with winning the internet that you don't mind looking like a clueless moron as long as you "win"?

Oh, if only it were possible to actually compare intellects. The look on your face when you realize you're not the smartest man in the room would be priceless.

Except it really doesn't. The b-wing completely outclasses it in the "brawler" role, which makes it the clear winner for an "aces" expansion. The only argument for including the y-wing instead is based on balance reasons, not theme.

Are we seriously having a huge fight over the freaking name of a type of packaging? It is entirely possible for the package to be renamed something other. I'm positive we will get an Aces-like package for Y-wings eventually.

And really, complaints about how the new Astromechs and Flechette Torpedoes aren't Y-wing only, thus don't count as Y-wing upgrades. That is as inane as the complaints about the "imbalance" of Rebel vs Imperial upgrades. Quite a few of those astromechs seem to be made directly for the Y-wing.

Flechette Torpedoes dont belong on Imperial Bombers? Or maybe even Slave-1?

Y-Wing Exclusive? whut?

at the cost of 2 points (actually 3 pts with munitions failsafe since it doesnt even have to hit to work) that sucker can and will be going on anything with a torp slot if a player finds stressing the opponent can be useful in a build...guaranteed.

Are we seriously having a huge fight over the freaking name of a type of packaging?

Or trivial semantic distinctions. Apparently some of us are, yes.

Don't worry, it won't be long before he accuses me of winning the internet again and retreats into solitude.

I'll be thankful at that post.

The B-wing didn't need that mod. The Y-wing did,

This this this this this this this this this this this this this this this this this this this this this this this this this this this this this this this this this this this this this this this this this this this this this this this this this this this this this this this this this this this this this this this this this this this this this this this this this this this this this this this this this this this this this this this this this this this

I'll be thankful at that post.

He's done it twice already. Third time's the charm?

The B-wing didn't need that mod. The Y-wing did,

This...

Honestly, I'd rather have a bomb slot on a Y-Wing than a crew, but that might just be me. Watch as I fly right past you and drop bombs while shooting with my turret.

I'd rather have both.

Because they fit the archetype of an ace pilot.

Let's kill this line of reasoning here with none other than the first Ace pack.

Carnor Jax is a Royal Guard, not a fighter jockey. His specialism is being ordered out of rooms when the Emperor is in mortal danger. X-wing alone depicts him flying a TIE interceptor.
Kir Canos is a Royal Guard, not a fighter jockey. His specialism is also being ordered out of rooms when the Emperor is in mortal danger. X-wing alone depicts him flying a TIE interceptor.

Lt Lorrir's only appearance in the EU depicts him flying a shuttle. Badly.
Tetran Cowall is an actor.

I'll repeat, Tetran Cowall is an actor. Not a fighter jockey. He was hired to impersonate Soontir Fel.

If we're discussing archetypes here, what's loud, green, and usually found at the epicentre of every heated discussion on this board?

Oh look, a Republic era ships thread... /leaves

Let's kill this line of reasoning here with none other than the first Ace pack.

Now look at their rules, not their obscure EU character names. Lorrir might not have been very impressive in a random EU story, but a TIE interceptor that can barrel roll with a curved template fits the "ace" archetype very well.

Don't worry, it won't be long before he accuses me of winning the internet again and retreats into solitude.

Only you would brag about how awesome it is when you're an obnoxious troll long enough that someone gets tired of arguing with you and leaves the discussion.

Please try to remember that we're playing an actual game here, not reading a book. Theme can take a back seat to good gameplay any day of the week as far as I'm concerned.

And if you take away the theme you have a game that nobody would play. Now, I'm not saying that gameplay and balance should be ignored, but consider the four options you have for your upcoming new release:

Ship #1 is seeing plenty of use, both with generic pilots and a decent selection of unique pilots. Theme-wise it's about average, it would have been better but you just used up a lot of design space in the most recent release.

Ship #2 is in desperate need of a balance fix. It sees very little use in competitive lists, unique pilots are virtually nonexistent, and the next wave of releases is about to take away its "cheapest possible ship" role. Theme-wise it's a perfect fit.

Ship #3 is seeing plenty of use, but only with very little diversity. Generic pilots with a limited set of upgrades are the only ones worth taking, while the unique pilots are a complete design failure. Theme-wise it's a very good fit.

Ship #4 is seeing some use, but only with very little diversity. It is decent in a supporting role, usually with generic pilots and one specific upgrade, but struggles to exist outside that role and it's not really clear how it could. Theme-wise it's a questionable fit at best.

So, which ones do you take? #1 is an obvious no and #2 is an obvious yes, so that leaves #3 and #4. Both have balance arguments to justify them, but since #3 is a better theme fit it makes sense to include #3 and deal with #4's problems later in a more appropriate product. Once the transport took the x-wing off the list of options for rebel aces it was pretty clearly going to be b-wing/a-wing.

So for the umpteenth time, you're going to sit there and posture like you know better than the rest of the community. Okay.

If the point of the Aces packs was for balance then imperial aces would have at least had a Tie Advanced not two interceptors!!

The B-wing didn't need that mod. The Y-wing did,

Though, I imagine, that if the Y-wing got that mod, it would probably replace the turret slot, since, the turret in some ways represents a "gunner" - and would people fly a turretless y-wing with a crew slot?

The B-wing didn't need that mod. The Y-wing did,

Though, I imagine, that if the Y-wing got that mod, it would probably replace the turret slot, since, the turret in some ways represents a "gunner" - and would people fly a turretless y-wing with a crew slot?

I guess that makes sense from a game design perspective, but the only reason the gunner seat even exists is to operate the turret, their why would they give you crew and remove the turret?

I'm sure the Y will get love at some point. Poor thing needs it <3

I dont know - New droids + new torpedos = y-wing love, just need some new turrets

Only you would brag about how awesome it is when you're an obnoxious troll long enough that someone gets tired of arguing with you and leaves the discussion.

I love it when threads about playing with toys go on long enough for someone to feel the need to start name-calling.

It pretty much means the discussion is over...and that person lost.