I don't really think the B-Wing E mod is that great, but it will certainly see some use. I mean right now the only rebel ships with crew are the Falcon and the Hawk. Being able to throw them on an inexpensive frontline fighter isn't a terrible option. I'm just glad it costs a point. If it were free like the Slave I it would have to be unique.

Buzzsaw B-wings please.

Dagger - FCS, /E, Gunner

Seems good in a pair. No engine upgrade, but the dial is better than the Lambda and it likely wants to close in slowly.

This is also one point more expensive than a heavy laser cannon. Do you really think it's better?

I do. I think it will gaurantee more hits getting through. Have you ever had a decent roll with 3 hits, only to have the defender roll three evades and get away scot free? Now you can follow up with the Gunner and possibly a TL. Also, this combo works at range 1, the HLC does not.

Buzzsaw B-wings please.

Dagger - FCS, /E, Gunner

Seems good in a pair. No engine upgrade, but the dial is better than the Lambda and it likely wants to close in slowly.

This is also one point more expensive than a heavy laser cannon. Do you really think it's better?

I do. I think it will gaurantee more hits getting through. Have you ever had a decent roll with 3 hits, only to have the defender roll three evades and get away scot free? Now you can follow up with the Gunner and possibly a TL. Also, this combo works at range 1, the HLC does not.

3 Dice with Focus, target Lock, and Gunner against a 3 agility opponent does slightly less damage than HLC with focus at range 2, much less at range 3, but obviously more at range 1. HLC is probably the better option because it offers a better Alpha Strike given the increase in damage at range 3. An Increase in ability to hit at range 1 is nice, but happens a lot less often.

I'd like for Gunner to work, but at 6 points extra (5 +1 for the crewmod) I fear it may be too expensive. A Dagger is suddenly 30 points, and it's ultimately still a PS4, 1Agi ship.

Time will tell, but I can guarantee you that the /E crew mod is going to add a lot of cool shenanigans!

The B-wing didn't need that mod. The Y-wing did,

R2-D2 and Nien Nunb? Ion Cannon Turret and Tactician? No thanks. This is a game, and lots of things that sound fun would be detrimental to the balance that makes X-wing great.

Edit: Magadizer reminded me that Tactician is in-arc only, which is sufficiently challenging to be a non-issue.

The Ion Cannon Turret and Tactician can already kind of be done with R3-A2. As for Nien Numb and R2-D2, remember this is a Y-wing. Unless it's packing Recon Specialist and Blaster Turret it does a max of two damage. Realistically, only one with its ion cannon turret. Crew and astromech combos (crew and astromech is thematically appropriate for a Y-wing) could be just what the Y-wing needs to get back in the game.

The B-wing didn't need that mod. The Y-wing did,

R2-D2 and Nien Nunb? Ion Cannon Turret and Tactician? No thanks. This is a game, and lots of things that sound fun would be detrimental to the balance that makes X-wing great.

Edit: Magadizer reminded me that Tactician is in-arc only, which is sufficiently challenging to be a non-issue.

The Ion Cannon Turret and Tactician can already kind of be done with R3-A2. As for Nien Numb and R2-D2, remember this is a Y-wing. Unless it's packing Recon Specialist and Blaster Turret it does a max of two damage. Realistically, only one with its ion cannon turret. Crew and astromech combos (crew and astromech is thematically appropriate for a Y-wing) could be just what the Y-wing needs to get back in the game.

R3-A2 only works within your arc, and I don't think the Y-wing needs any help to make it competitive.

"...and I don't think the Y-Wing needs any help to make it competitive."

No, but the B-Wing sure needs some stuff huh? I mean...who flies that wreck?

The idea of fighters needing help is completely beside the point. Certain fighters could use being thrown a bone now and then though to reinvigorate them in the game. TIE Advanced would be one. Y-Wing would be another.

B-Wing...nobody REALLY thinks that that ship NEEDS anything.

Yeah, it's not like the Y-wing didn't just get a ton of new Astromechs and a new Torpedo to play with...

i think pairing a B-wing with dutch and a weapons engineer for two free target locks would be interesting.

and farlander with kyle would be nice and easy to get a focus or two a turn

Astromechs and Torpedo's are not Y-Wing Exclusive items. B-Wings, X-Wings, E-Wings, TIE Bombers, Slave-1, all of these things get enhanced by those mods.

/E is B-Wing exclusive...giving that fighter new life...in the extreme.

Flechette is probably the BEST thing to happen to the Y-Wing, but so many fighters can also benefit....

Flechette/Munitions Failsafe actually...

I just want to put an R2 Astromech on a B-Wing. That's not broken at all, right?

B-Wing...nobody REALLY thinks that that ship NEEDS anything.

I disagree. B-wings are great, but only with a very limited range of options. Adding a crew slot hopefully encourages a little more diversity, and gives a reason to consider taking those expensive unique pilots.

B-Wings are widely accepted as the best fighter available to the rebellion, narrowly edging out the X-Wing as top dog.

Upgrades might be more useful on a ship just a little less versatile/pts efficient. (Y-Wing?)

B-Wings are widely accepted as the best fighter available to the rebellion, narrowly edging out the X-Wing as top dog.

And you just missed the point completely. The b-wing might be the best ship, but only the generic pilots see any use and the only real upgrade choice is whether to take advanced sensors or not. Adding a crew upgrade gives you some incentive to think about some alternatives to that point-efficient basic choice. And with FFG also adding at least one appealing unique pilot (and probably a second one) there might finally be some viable 3-ship lists that are the equivalent to the elite x-wing lists.

Upgrades might be more useful on a ship just a little less versatile/pts efficient. (Y-Wing?)

It might be more useful, but that doesn't drive the game in the direction FFG wants it to go (in favor of more elite lists and customization over swarms and cookie cutter generics). And the y-wing was never going to be included in an "aces" expansion because it's a bland turret ship or torpedo bomber, not an exciting dogfighter.

It's rare that anything other than Generic pilots are used in most of the best tourney winning lists nowadays. Piling more points onto an already expensive ship is not going to change that.

Perhaps FFG wants to move the game into smaller more elite squads, but I doubt it. Not a very sound move fore sales. I'm betting FFG is perfectly happy with all the massive swarm players out there. Happy indeed.

As far as the Y being a bland Turret ship and not an exiting dogfighter....that is pure opinion...nothing more.

It's rare that anything other than Generic pilots are used in most of the best tourney winning lists nowadays. Piling more points onto an already expensive ship is not going to change that.

I could argue against this, but instead I'll just point those who are interested toward the thread full of statistics on what's winning/placing at Regionals.

Perhaps FFG wants to move the game into smaller more elite squads, but I doubt it.

You're wrong. It's absolutely clear from recent releases that they're trying to make sure elite pilots are viable competitive choices.

As far as the Y being a bland Turret ship and not an exiting dogfighter....that is pure opinion...nothing more.

Here's the only place we agree. The Y-wing can be exciting, and I hope at some point FFG will give it the boost it's been looking for for a while.

I just want to put an R2 Astromech on a B-Wing. That's not broken at all, right?

Neither is Nien Nunb on a B-wing Probably the crew I'll use the most, honestly. Combine with PTL and Advanced Sensors. Then profit.

It's rare that anything other than Generic pilots are used in most of the best tourney winning lists nowadays. Piling more points onto an already expensive ship is not going to change that.

I could argue against this, but instead I'll just point those who are interested toward the thread full of statistics on what's winning/placing at Regionals.

Perhaps FFG wants to move the game into smaller more elite squads, but I doubt it.

You're wrong. It's absolutely clear from recent releases that they're trying to make sure elite pilots are viable competitive choices.

As far as the Y being a bland Turret ship and not an exiting dogfighter....that is pure opinion...nothing more.

Here's the only place we agree. The Y-wing can be exciting, and I hope at some point FFG will give it the boost it's been looking for for a while.

Vorpal Sword hit it on the head. FFG doesn't like swarms. They're trying to develop the game so that 3-5 ship Elite squads can compete with swarms while the swarms stay relevant but less prevalent.

Apparently giving the best close range fighter in the game access to support upgrades is a higher priority than making more options available for a ship whose "only real upgrade choice is whether to take [ion Cannon Turret] or not." Oh wait, that's not really even a choice...

Look, there isn't a ship in the game that won't profit from more options, but did we really need those options for one of the currently most ubiquitous ships in the game before the Y-Wing? I'm all for more Firespray pilots, but I wouldn't expect to see them before the TIE Advanced gets some love.

Apparently giving the best close range fighter in the game access to support upgrades is a higher priority than making more options available for a ship whose "only real upgrade choice is whether to take [ion Cannon Turret] or not." Oh wait, that's not really even a choice...

Look, there isn't a ship in the game that won't profit from more options, but did we really need those options for one of the currently most ubiquitous ships in the game before the Y-Wing?

Putting the B-wing in the set is a marketing move. They are super popular, so they will move the set. While some people who already don't like the Y-wing, and think the A-wing is underpowered may not think it's as good a deal.

Having said that, I'd have rathered it be a Y-wing too. From a game design POV, it makes more sense to me to update things that have become irrelevant, as opposed to new options that are already prevalent. But that's just me.

DOES WANT MORE Y-WING PILOTZ!

Apparently giving the best close range fighter in the game access to support upgrades is a higher priority than making more options available for a ship whose "only real upgrade choice is whether to take [ion Cannon Turret] or not." Oh wait, that's not really even a choice...

Remember the part where the y-wing was never going to go in the first "aces" expansion because fluff-wise it isn't an exciting dogfighter? I mean, just think back to the video games: the y-wing was the slow and frustrating ship you had to suffer through because the b-wing didn't exist yet, the b-wing was the awesome new heavy fighter that replaced it in every way.

Look, there isn't a ship in the game that won't profit from more options, but did we really need those options for one of the currently most ubiquitous ships in the game before the Y-Wing?

I guess "FFG wants the b-wing to be more than just blue/dagger + advanced sensors" isn't clear enough yet? It's not about making a weak ship more powerful, it's about trying to push the game in a specific direction.

As far as the Y being a bland Turret ship and not an exiting dogfighter....that is pure opinion...nothing more.

No, it's simple fact. Fluff-wise the y-wing is a slow bomber, not a dogfighter. Game-wise it's a ship with a 2-dice gun, a bad dial, and plenty of secondary weapon slots (including a turret that encourages flying bland circles around the edge of the fight). You just aren't going to make an exciting dogfighter out of it unless you completely redesign the ship.

Perhaps FFG wants to move the game into smaller more elite squads, but I doubt it. Not a very sound move fore sales. I'm betting FFG is perfectly happy with all the massive swarm players out there. Happy indeed.

Sure, FFG likes selling lots of ships to swarm players, but a lot of people get into the game because they think flying all their favorite characters will be fun. FFG doesn't want those players to encounter a metagame where generics are mandatory and nobody takes characters unless they want to lose, because that is likely to drive that player out of the game after only a few purchases. The ideal situation is one where swarms are viable and appealing, but so are elite lists. And that's what we see, subtle pushes to take more elite options but no hard counters to generics that would remove them from the metagame entirely.

You seem to think that I don't understand your point. I do, just like always, and I disagree. Simply because you think the Y-Wing isn't fun doesn't mean the rest of us do as well. The B-Wing remains as playable as it's ever been, with more upgrades than you give it credit for (FCS or HLC anyone?). So, in your opinion, it's better to take a ship that already sees a considerable amount of play and give it even more options, rather than make an older, less played ship more desirable? Because that latter route is pretty much exactly where FFG is going with the A-Wing, and I don't see anyone complaining.

Simply because you think the Y-Wing isn't fun doesn't mean the rest of us do as well.

That's not what I said. The y-wing is fun, it's just not appropriate for an "aces" expansion. Like the HWK or shuttle it has a role that doesn't line up very well with what FFG wants the "aces" expansions to do.

The B-Wing remains as playable as it's ever been, with more upgrades than you give it credit for (FCS or HLC anyone?).

FCS is usually only used when you can't afford advanced sensors, and HLCs are even less common. The ship is clearly focused on the two generic pilots, with or without advanced sensors, while the unique pilots and other upgrade options are mostly neglected.

So, in your opinion, it's better to take a ship that already sees a considerable amount of play and give it even more options, rather than make an older, less played ship more desirable?

Yes, because, as I've clearly said, the issue FFG is trying to deal with is what kind of b-wings are played, not how many total b-wings are played. Like the -2 point refit for the a-wing it's a case of admitting a mistake with the original design of the ship and attempting to provide some better options that will encourage a little more diversity.

Meanwhile the y-wing doesn't have a design problem, it just has a role that not everyone wants to include in their list. It's very well designed as a turret ship, and its limited use as a torpedo bomber is a problem with secondary weapons in general, not the ship.

Because that latter route is pretty much exactly where FFG is going with the A-Wing, and I don't see anyone complaining.

For two reasons:

1) The a-wing is an exciting dogfighter that makes a good "aces" ship. In fact, as soon as the imperial aces expansion was announced anyone with any sense could have guessed that the rebel one was going to have an a-wing.

2) The a-wing had the same problem as the b-wing: nobody wanted to use any of its upgrades or unique pilots. And it gets a similar solution, powerful new unique pilots that can replace the weaker old ones, and new upgrade options that encourage you to spend more points on the ship instead of just using the same old basic generics.